IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    No, but it proves he knew it was a window and not a “solid wall of glass.”
     
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  2. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    Yes and decency.
     
  3. mheido67

    mheido67 Well-Known Member

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    RCCL presented it as relevant in demonstrating that if his head went outside the window he had to know there was no glass.

    That's why MW reacted to aggressively to show it was impossible for him to get his head actually outside the window.

    I actually rather doubt his head ever went outside the plane of the window. Chloe, on the other hand, most certainly would have had portions of her body outside the plane of glass if he held her on the window frame as depicted in the MW recreation photos. How he could have not observed that she was clearly not making contact with any glass is beyond me. It was not instantly like some keep reporting, he held her there for over half a minute.
     
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  4. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    The law says the opposite of this.

    The standard is not “a possibility it could happen.” They would have to enclose the entire ship.

    The standard is prior notice of danger and not correcting it.

    The legal standard of “danger”, i.e. not complying with applicable safety regulations, is what is applied.

    How could a ship ever transport passengers if the standard for them being liable for injury was “if it can happen, you can win lawsuit for it.”
     
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  5. JerseySleuth17

    JerseySleuth17 Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree this is my theory - he's on some type of medication that impaired his senses and judgment and he should never have been watching CW alone. It's possible her parents were not aware of this and why they defended him at least initially. RCCL either already has his medical records, or is in the process of getting them, but my money is on he has mental health issues, was on medication, and never should have been in charge of an 18 month old. According to reports he was only watching her for less than 15 minutes before she died. You see him crouch down and support himself against a pole while they were near the pool, then she's at least 5 feet ahead of him heading towards the window area and he is trailing behind her. This isn't exactly model babysitting behavior, it takes split seconds for a toddler to get into trouble and he's acting like how did I get stuck watching this kid? It's all very odd.
     
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  6. mheido67

    mheido67 Well-Known Member

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    The bridge wing cam hangs below the bridge wing which is at the very top of the deck plan. It's very far from the Squezze Bar and would almost certainly be blocked by the cantilevered hot tubs. But there must be other exterior cams further towards the stern of the ship.
     
  7. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    ITA. I don’t think he will be above being “convinced” to “lie” about being responsible and take the plea deal to put this behind them. (But in private he will still be their denial martyr.)

    Only of the civil case fails, of course.
     
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  8. Forever Young

    Forever Young Well-Known Member

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    That is the physically impossible moment, IMO. It is exactly what they are arguing against.
     
  9. wackyw

    wackyw Well-Known Member

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  10. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    He's flinging as much mud as possible in order to pressure RCC to settle. Just classic lawyer behavior. And even if he doesn't get anything out of this one it could pay dividends on his next case. This is not his first time suing RCC and likely not his last.
     
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  11. wackyw

    wackyw Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible to do a (like)squared re this ?
     
  12. Forever Young

    Forever Young Well-Known Member

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    No, IMO, there are no videos showing that SA leaned his head out the window. This is the part that the Wiegands in their response say RCCL is lying about.

    This is the part that the re-enactment is purporting to show. That at no time was SA's head "outside the window" and at no point while being held was Chloe outside the ship. Out the window means outside the ship.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  13. mheido67

    mheido67 Well-Known Member

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    This is the photo from MW's court filing showing the wing cam.
     

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  14. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    I feel like RCL has mountains of evidence to prove their case, and that each time MW reacts and the parents continue with the lawsuit a new nail will go into the metaphorical coffin.

    Maybe next we will see some witness statements from crew that he was told to stop and didn’t. Maybe we will hear statement from passengers about what exactly he was saying.

    I think the final piece might be external video, that RCCL might not even own, so they can say they provided all their video. And that right now they are not planning to use any other video.
     
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  15. Forever Young

    Forever Young Well-Known Member

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    I don't see that I said "natural". I said that an open window is a recognized danger. That is, of course, if you see it. Not natural per se, it is something you learn, but you do have to recognize (see) that it is open to begin with.
     
  16. mheido67

    mheido67 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on this. However, I think MW's recreation actually winds up showing that SA could easily have held CW outside the plane of the glass in a way that the so far revealed video does not. Could RCCL have been providing MW with enough rope to hang himself?
     
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  17. JerseySleuth17

    JerseySleuth17 Well-Known Member

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    Considering she was in front of that window over 30 seconds it's entirely possible someone on the dock took a video, cell phone cameras are everywhere and thirty seconds is a VERY long time to notice something, get your camera and start filming. I'm pretty sure RCCL has an ace up their sleeve and in the meantime they are giving SA rope to hang himself, so to speak.
     
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  18. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    I would think this would be a mitigating factor in his criminal trial, too.

    Something like, “I never took Xanax before, or I took something twice that day by mistake, or I didn’t know not to combine alcohol with my med...this is the only reason I can think I thought there was glass, because I really thought there was, I am so sorry, this is all my fault...”

    I would feel badly for him if he accepted responsibility. But he doesn’t want to.
     
  19. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    Oh, well, if they never went outside the ship until SA dropped Chloe outside the ship, that’s it! That’s the key! Give them all the monies!
     
  20. Forever Young

    Forever Young Well-Known Member

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    He did not recognize the danger, because he claims not to have known the window was open.
     
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