IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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  2. CocoChanel

    CocoChanel Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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  3. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    I had just posted this so am bringing it over.

    One thing I find troubling about this case, is how the family left without talking to the prosecutors.

    When a child dies under questionable circumstances here in the states, is the family allowed to ignore and flee the area in order to avoid LE?

    And when that kind of thing happens don’t most people, including us Websleuths go into the “uh, huh, something’s hinky ” mode of thinking?

    I was just reading this PR news article that came out right after the tragedy, and it struck me... they didn’t just leave, they fled. I understand the horror of the situation, but aren’t other people in similar required to talk to LE? If anyone else in the states did this involving the violent death of a child, they highly likely would have had LE show up at their front door within a day. Am I wrong?

    Here’s the link to article which can be translated.
    Vídeo será determinante en investigación sobre muerte de niña en crucero
    Excerpt (translated) from article:
     
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  4. justbreathe

    justbreathe Well-Known Member

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    No one ever has to talk to police if they chose not to. As a lawyer and cop the parents would know their rights better than most.
     
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  5. JerseySleuth17

    JerseySleuth17 Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know how many video angles are available of SA by the window with Chloe? I thought there were only two until this morning when I saw the third angle from behind, are there any other angles available?
     
  6. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    From previous thread, bringing posts/quotes to new thread.
    Ship Motion. At Dock?
    LietKynes posted: "The always capable BetteDavisEyes linked in her comments that the ship was docked and there would've been zero motion.
    TDoc72 posted: "....I think there would still be motion, just not as much as on the open water. I’ve never been on a cruise though. ..."

    TDoc72 :) sbm There would still be motion at the dock? :confused: :confused: :confused:
    As you say you've never been on a cruise, just curious about the basis for your opinion.

    I happen to agree: At dock, passengers would still detect motion --------------------- if it was a kayak.:D

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    BTW. The ship: MS Freedom of the Seas - Wikipedia

    "...Upon its completion, it became the largest passenger ship ever built...(by gross tonnage) ... "
    "....accommodate 3,634 passengers and 1,300 crew .... As of November 2018, she is the
    15th largest passenger ship in the world by gross tonnage, at 155,889 GT....."
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  7. wackyw

    wackyw Well-Known Member

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    In reply to a post on the previous thread about the distances quoted from the glass to the rail ...

    19" may come from the pictures provided by MW. See p47 of this ..

    Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 4.pdf

    BUT this is not the distance to the glass, that is to the outer flange that ensures the window frame cannot fall out.
    So that is a measurement beyond the glass, it is also not horizontal.

    The top picure on p58 shows a measurement of 12.5" or so to the rail, which is 4" wide, so then you get to 16.5".

    What it also shows is the depth of the window sill to be approx 2.75". A quick google suggests a foot length of about 5" for an 18 month old.
    It would be a bit awkward trying to balance her on this with her heels off the sill.
    Where could one move her to in order to avoid that pesky glass being in the way I wonder?
    If only there was an open window where there would be no glass and the sill would extend further by 2" or so, it would be so much easier.
    But alas no, I can't see the glass in this frame to the left, but it must be there. But I'll move her there anyway.

    I also notice the picture on p47 doesn't show the groove in which the window slides, it looks like you get to the edge of the white bit and meet the upstand.
    To me it's not easy to see the extra 2" or so, in fact I can't see that. Is that my eyes or monitor setup ?
    It's much clearer on the deck 11 tour video about 1m 20s in.



    Which I believe was on the other side of the deck, hence the window handles being on the opposite side.
     
  8. justice4allnow

    justice4allnow Well-Known Member

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  9. weepingangel

    weepingangel Well-Known Member

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    I believe rccl says there are only two that show the event. One from the side and one from the back
     
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  10. MsMarple

    MsMarple Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the civil suit and how long it may take before it goes to trial or is settled, I found a case from October 14, 2017 where an 8-year-old girl fell from behind an interior railing. In that case there were a few articles in msm and as far as I know only one interview with a relative and yes, he was talking about legal steps. Some sleuthing uncovered that the girl's family filed a lawsuit against Carnival on May 18, 2018. On January 18, 2019 Carnival settled with the family.

    So the case took about 8 months to settle. I don't know how typical that time frame is. The Wiegand suit may drag on longer, especially if they are looking to score an unusually high award. I guess it'll come down to their motive. IOW, if the goal is to find RCCL negligent and forced to alter the windows then they have to go to trial as IMO I don't think RCCL would agree to publicly admit negligence in a settlement. MOO.

    From the first link, keeping in mind that the article is from 2017 and is written by an attorney who was not involved in that case:
    ---------
    Secondly, Carnival, like most cruise lines, does not have to abide by the same building code requirements that land-based public hotels and resorts and other businesses have to abide. There are not building code inspectors that come on to cruise ships to make sure they meet minimum standards for things like step height, lighting, signage and or for most other major architectural features found on ships.
    ...
    Maritime law applies to accidents on cruise ships, even when they are in port. This body of law is a complex web, and much more difficult to navigate for injured people and their families to obtain justice while protecting the profits of the cruise lines. For example, if this same incident were to have occurred the bay in Miami Beach at a fancy hotel rather than on a cruise ship - an entirely different body of law would apply.
    ----------
    Take it with a grain of salt and of course juries are often swayed by emotion but it sure sounds like RCCL shouldn't be found negligent. MOO.
     
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  11. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen some reliable measurements that show:

    - 45" to the top of the rail

    - 17" from the outside edge of the railing to the glass, measured horizontally over the top. (4 inch rail plus 13 inch gap)

    Two things though:

    - The rail is rounded, so that helps somewhat.

    - The windowsill is actually a little closer, due to the sloping glass and the difference in height.
     
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  12. TDoc72

    TDoc72 Well-Known Member

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    The ship is docked but still in the water. Water can be strong. So maybe there could be some motion but not nearly as much as on the open sea. It was just a thought. I admitted haven’t been on a cruise ship before. I have been on a big ferry though. ‍‍

    I don’t think that motion vs no motion has anything to do with him dropping her though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  13. TDoc72

    TDoc72 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the person taking the window measurements took care not to drop the measuring tape out the window. Or if while measuring the window, they could’ve straightened out their arms and they would be out the window.
    It would be an interesting point to cross examine on.
    (@ZoriahNZ in the last thread said something similar but I couldn’t reply to their post. Sorry.)
     
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  14. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Possible DUI/DWI Ticket?

    Quoting from previous thread:
    @FactFinder3000 :"But I did my own search. No sign of any DUI. So claims of DUIs are unsubstantiated rumors and probably false."

    Input SA's name at this site: Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase
    One* from 20 yrs ago my attn. Criminal misdemeanor. No charge applicable. Not sure how to interp. Could it be a court entry from a DUI/DWI ticket issued? IDK. Was it a Nolle Prosequi (prosecutor dropped)? Seems like that info would also be input. Or? Anyone? Thx in adv.

    ------------------------------------------------
    * "State of Indiana vs. SALVATORE ANELLO
    Case Number 64D04-9911-CM-001874
    Court Porter Superior Court 4
    Type CM - Criminal Misdemeanor

    Filed 11/24/1999

    Status 11/24/1999 , Pending (active)

    01 11/24/1999 No Charge Applicable


    Citation#
    Statute
    NCA
    Degree

    NC "
    ^ bbm
    Other results showed a civil matter, speeding tickets, and failure to use seatbelt
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  15. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Ship. Motion vs No Motion?

    TDoc72 Thank you for you kind response to my ;):confused: post.
    And seriously agreeing w you on this point: motion vs no motion, prob'ly not material or relevant to SA's dropping Chloe. Thx again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
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  16. JerseySleuth17

    JerseySleuth17 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry edited - I never saw the one from the back before just two from the side from slightly different angles. The one from the back is closer and shows him picking CW up and holding her. It was not reported by American news though. See this link around 8:30 in.IMPACTANTE | ¡Video exclusivo dentro del crucero cuando el abuelo, Salvatore Anello, asoma a la niña por la ventana del piso 11! #QueBochinche #LaComay
     
  17. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you’re right. But avoiding / escaping talking to LE tends to raise suspicions, at least for people like myself, iykwim.
     
  18. Lawsmygame2

    Lawsmygame2 Well-Known Member

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  19. cattlekate

    cattlekate Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. These measurements fit perfectly with a 5’11” SA bending over and sticking his head out just a bit out of the open window. Then hoisting Chloe up to the rail to experience the fresh air. And then her toppling out, due to toddlers being top heavy and SA trying to hold her waist/legs.

    What a reckless idiot SA was.
     
  20. ZoriahNZ

    ZoriahNZ Well-Known Member

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    I seem to recall at least 2 speeding tickets. One was 75 for going in 55 mph zone. The other being 70mph. Which points to a pattern of recklessness and disregard of rules as far as I'm concerned. Does anyone truly believe that he would have heeded a warning sign on the windows, had there been one?
     
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