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IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. Kindred

    Kindred Well-Known Member

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    That and from the timeline from Winkleman's filing we know that the family had lunch after boarding just prior to mom and Chloe going off to play in the splash pad. It's quite possible that a cocktail or two was enjoyed with lunch.
     
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  2. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    In gramps defence he might have knocked himself stupid when he smashed his head on the glass when he leaned his complete upper torso out.

    Yeah right.
     
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  3. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    Good for RC, I think that’s awesome. :)
     
  4. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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    It has been linked several times on this thread.
     
  5. Lawnguylander1964

    Lawnguylander1964 Well-Known Member

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    But this involves a huge international company that provides services to consumers and the death of a child.

    I don't think a judge would or should dismiss a case without trial. There's too much at stake in terms of safety and the judge doesn't want to miss something because this looks bogus on it's face.

    I want SA to fry, but I think the judge is doing the right thing even though it seems silly.
     
  6. Kindred

    Kindred Well-Known Member

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    Just because it's an international company is no reason for a lawsuit to proceed if the complaint has no merits. Companies have a right to be protected from frivolous suits. And as long as it's not dismissed with prejudice, Winkleman is free to refile with better arguments. Again, judges dismiss meritless complaints ALL THE TIME, and at this point, the judge has not decided one way or the other. We will see in the next few weeks how this plays out
     
  7. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    ROYAL CARIBBEAN TO OFFER AUSTRALIAN HEROES FREE CRUISES ON SPECTRUM

    I can’t see this on MSM but if the word gets out I’d be waiting for Winkleman to call foul.
     
  8. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  9. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

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    It has been my thought if SA could have taken a prescription drug to prevent sea sickness that was prescribed to a person traveling in their group. If so, that would have caused problems for the person giving him the drug.
     
  10. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    Winkleman doesn't have to refile. The Judge said RCCL needed to refile and also to turn over ALL the security video within 5 days. I have yet to see proof that RCCL refiled or that they turned over all the security video.

    JMO

    Jonathon Fishman, a manager of corporate reputation for Royal Caribbean said the cruise line's lawyers would adjust the motion and submit it again in the "upcoming days."

    ...The judge on Thursday also ordered the cruise line to respond within five days to the plaintiff's assertions that the company did not produce video from some cameras on the ship.


    Royal Caribbean to refile motion to dismiss lawsuit from family of toddler who died
     
  11. JulieBEMT

    JulieBEMT Well-Known Member

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    Here you go. The new motion to dismiss was uploaded by Kindred on page 65
     
  12. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    BBM. That is your opinion, not fact. Adults traveling with small children on vacation should not need to stop at a bar in mid-day to get a first "cheers" drink. Their primary responsibility is the supervision and safety of the children. Alcohol contributes to supervisory neglect of children. There is absolutely no proof in this case the grandfather had consumed alcohol.

    JMO
     
  13. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    As to the bolded above, that's what I think their plan is. They know the video will not be helpful if the jury sees it. So it may be better for them to just keep drawing this out, by going to higher and higher courts, and keep it in the news, trying to damage RCC's public reputation.
     
  14. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Aren’t The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    Correct, he didn’t need alcohol to put his granddaughter in jeopardy. He has a long pattern of behavior that clearly shows a disregard for public safety.

    Ignoring that, one need look no further than his actions here. Ignoring common sense, he directly caused his granddaughter’s death.

    She didn’t climb onto that railing, rather, a maniac lifted her there.

    And then he dropped her.

    He didn’t need alcohol to dull his senses; he never had any to begin with.

    There’s a thing called “personal responsibility,” something this man apparently doesn’t believe in.
     
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  15. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. RCCL has had plenty of bad publicity to damage its reputation especially among senior citizens and their families who absolutely will take note.

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article227305689.html

    The Judge in this case ordered RCCL to turn over ALL video in 5 days and that deadline has now passed. If the video wasn't helpful to the Plaintiff, RCCL would have turned it over a long time ago. The Plaintiff also had the foresight to do a reenactment of how RCCL claimed it happened: grandfather leaned far out the window and dangled the child. The reenactment proved it would be physically impossible based on distances and angle of window and height of the grandfather.

    JMO

    Bloomberg also states that "personal injury cases against the three biggest cruise lines – Carnival, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., and Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings – accounted for 78 to 87 percent of all federal litigation they faced over the last five years, according to the data which it collected.


    Bloomberg explains that the lawsuits "often involve slip-and-fall claims, but recent complaints also
    [​IMG]
    allege serious illnesses and injuries worsened by shipboard medical decisions."

    Lawsuits Against Miami-Based Cruise Lines: Carnival, Norwegian and Royal Caribbean | Cruise Law News
     
  16. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    The questions above, have been discussed many times, and answered sufficiently.

    ---As to the 'bad' publicity---every article I have read, is followed by comments which are 90% against the grandfather. Very few people find fault with RCC.

    ---The video, that you think is being held back, because it is incriminating to the cruise lines doesn't exist. They have already submitted to the court ALL of the footage that shows that window area.

    ---The reenactments? lmao....did you watch them? They were a joke and proved absolutely nothing. You think the jury is going to see him in the video, lifting that bAby up over the safety rail, propping her up in that open window ledge, letting go of her with one arm, and they are going to bother with a silly, inaccurate reenactment using a mermaid barbie doll?

    ---those cases you posted at the end, have nothing to do with this case, at all.
     
  17. JulieBEMT

    JulieBEMT Well-Known Member

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    Have you been following this case at all? Starting with the video - RCCL turned over all of the video they have that shows the family and/or the incident. The plaintiffs identified additional "cameras" they wanted video from. Two of those were actually audio speakers. RCCL has submitted still photos from every other camera to show the angle it is facing. That's the best they can do because no video exists. Unless there is an incident in on a specific camera, the video gets destroyed.

    Have you looked at both the video and the "reenactment?" If you had, I'm certain you would feel differently. While the plaintiffs would like us to believe what grandpa did is physically impossible, they did anything but prove it! In fact, I think their little "reenactment" will do them more harm than good if submitted in court.

    As for the law firm stating 78 -87% of their cases being against cruise lines, that because that's the entire focus of their practice. In the very first press conference, MW stated all he does is sue cruise lines. His entire career is based on shaking down cruise lines in the hope that these giant companies will offer a quick settlement to stay out of the news. In this case, he miscalculated. Now he's trying to hold together a losing case that he wasn't planning to have to try.

    Finally, on the publicity side, every media article, video and news piece I've seen is 99% in favor of the cruise line on this one. Some people even say that if they pay this family anything, they will never sail Royal Caribbean again.
     
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  18. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

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    Totally disagree. The public opinion, by great majority, is against the grandfather and family and in favor of RCCL.

    If you check out the many links posted on this thread you will see.
     
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  19. mheido67

    mheido67 Well-Known Member

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    You’re way behind on this. RCCL has responded to the order to provide the video from all the requested cameras. The 5 day deadline you mentioned was for video from two cameras requested that RCCL noted did not have any relevance to the case. No footage was preserved from them and RCCL submitted still shots showing that those cameras did not have the location of the incident in their field of view. All part of a sworn deposition by their head of security. RCCL has also said in its motions that only two cameras captured the incident. That’s it. There is no additional footage that RCCL has. So stop making it sound like RCCL is withholding video evidence because there is no evidence to support that claim.

    The re-enactment done by the plaintiff is moot at this point since the judge rejected RCCL’s original motion to dismiss and told them to focus solely on the four corners of the plaintiffs suit. RCCL has resubmitted a new motion to dismiss that doesn’t mention the video footage but rather relies strictly on case law to claim that plaintiff does not have cause to sue. Plaintiffs have yet to respond to it.
     
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  20. Kindred

    Kindred Well-Known Member

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    I understand this perfectly well and have been the one supplying the copies of the documents. If you read my post, I said, and BBM:

    Meaning that if the case is dismissed off the NEW MOTION that was filed on 2/12, AFTER the article you quoted was published, that then it would be on Winkleman to refile. I know it has been a couple threads since you have been participating in this discussion and there has been a lot since you were last with us. If you would like copies of all the filings so you can keep up I'd be happy to relink everything so you can see where the civil case is at
     
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