IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[Midwestmom2019]

LBM

Thank you for your efforts in showing us what the evidence might have looked like, @they'll get you !

Imo-- It's abundantly clear from some of the photos and videos that the splash pad/ play area are a good distance from any windows--- none of which are low enough for a toddler to walk over and slip through.
Curious how long the lawyer and parents will keep touting this.
"Touting" : .
" 1. attempt to sell (something), typically by pestering people in an aggressive or bold manner...."

As long as any one keeps listening. Ignore the civil lawyer, ignore the parents, ignore the court proceedings. It’ll all go away by itself.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Mom & Dad, Professions & Employers
MSM articles stated Dad is a law enforcement officer in an Indiana city, repeated here several times.

And MSM articles said Mom is an attorney. Where/how is she employed? Private law practice? Government? Corporate work? If her employer has been identified, I've missed it.

Anyone? TiA.

Maybe DM but I think she’s a stay at home mom.

 

[MsMarple]

Mom & Dad, Professions & Employers
MSM articles stated Dad is a law enforcement officer in an Indiana city, repeated here several times.

And MSM articles said Mom is an attorney. Where/how is she employed? Private law practice? Government? Corporate work? If her employer has been identified, I've missed it.

Anyone? TiA.

According to this she used to work in the prosecutor's office in South Bend Indiana. No word on whether or not she's currently working.

Memorial held in honor of local toddler who tragically died in cruise ship accident

 

[oviedo]

Adding this as the video part way through shows a ship's employee (?) or a PR LE looking like he's demonstrating what observers may have witnessed.
He basically holds both his hands out the window and jiggles them up and down a bit-- then opens his hands, palms downward , Like he (SA) is playing a "whoopsie" game and let go.
May be nothing -- but the cameras should have caught this in detail.

Grandad 'had to be sedated' after dropping toddler 150ft to her death on cruise ship - Daily Star
"... According to the paper, after the incident the distraught grandfather kept muttering: “I thought it was like she was at a hockey game.” The revelation comes after local officials initially said Anello had been “dangling” the toddler out of the window and had lost his grip..."
emph. mine

This was interesting as I thought the lawyer initially brought up the hockey game reference and not SA ?

From the link
Snipped
Chloe was in the arms of her grandfather Salvatore Anello when he propped her up on a railing to look through and bang on windows, which she reportedly loved doing at her brother's ice hockey games.According to the family's lawyer Michael Winkleman, Anello did not realise the window on the Freedom of the Seas cruise ship was open...
—-
The lawyer was involved so i believe the narrative originated with them as a plausible story of why he would do such a dangerous thing - IMO - I’m not sure I believe the mutterings because if true that would mean there are eye witnesses which so far seem to be silent JMO

 

[oviedo]

View attachment 213349
Screenshot. Click to enlarge.
ugh. (again!)

So this is a still from the video LietKynes linked to. It shows officials in the exact window Chloe fell from, and it does indeed look like a reenactment of Grandpas actions. This is exactly what I think is on that ccv footage.

Me too unfortunately - a silly game gone very wrong and it has nothing to do with a hockey game and that glass IMO

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Yes. Actually there have been posters saying they thought it could have been murder.


If he didn't do it by accident, he did it on purpose, =Murder.

Am I missing something?

He did it out of stupidity. He meant to put her outside of the window. He didn’t mean to let her slip through his grasp.

Or he didn’t do anything. She wriggled out of his grasp.

 

[Safeguard]

rsbm
So... if this scenario is plausible then we have to consider that the grandfather simply lost hold of Chloe as she went to bang on the window. What we don't yet know is whether or not he was aware that the window was open. If we are to believe him then we accept he believed it was closed. And that in turn asks the question of how could he not see that the window was open?

The only way I can envision him not being aware the window was open requires a timing we just don't have...

For instance, if he and Chloe were moving excitedly, quickly, along the walk way, looking in every direction at once, type of thing, including looking at all the many closed windows as they pranced along and he suddenly swoops her up in one quick second to look out ... and in the most tragic case ever, of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...

She's just gone.

 

[neesaki]

I just find it jaw droppingly amazing that anyone could possess such an extreme lack of good judgement, especially concerning someone supposedly so near and dear to them.

Same for me. Something else I’ve realized over the last few years, some people just have “something” missing. Something essential. Something necessary. I keep searching for an explanation, but there doesn’t seem to be one. I think this question was actually part of what motivated me to educate myself in this field.
I’ve researched personality disorders, etc. but still have had a hard time pinning down this sort of blatant neglect and, what seems to be very immature, self centered, irresponsible, extremely childlike behavior by an adult, that coincides with this type of horrific lack of judgment. It has me baffled.
Anyway, if anyone has any insight to share on this would you kindly let me know? Tia

 

[neesaki]

DBM

 

[they'll get you]

I agree that surveillance video is probably damning. I have to wonder if Grandpa has told Chloe's parents and/or other family members who were on the ship with him the truth about really happened. Probably not, but I hope everyone learns the truth through the trial or SA's confession. I don't think Chloe's parents will be able to move on until they know exactly what happened when their little girl plunged to her death from a cruise ship window.

There would’ve been witnesses, if not the people on the deck chairs there are others who sit at the tables, they are the ones who may have seen it happen.
IMO there are many people with PTSD due to this as the screaming alone must have been horrific and sometimes it’s a natural reaction to go look to see the outcome.
That would be a mistake.

 

[justbreathe]

Adding this as the video part way through shows a ship's employee (?) or a PR LE looking like he's demonstrating what observers may have witnessed.
He basically holds both his hands out the window and jiggles them up and down a bit-- then opens his hands, palms downward , Like he (SA) is playing a "whoopsie" game and let go.
May be nothing -- but the cameras should have caught this in detail.

Grandad 'had to be sedated' after dropping toddler 150ft to her death on cruise ship - Daily Star
"... According to the paper, after the incident the distraught grandfather kept muttering: “I thought it was like she was at a hockey game.” The revelation comes after local officials initially said Anello had been “dangling” the toddler out of the window and had lost his grip..."
emph. mine

This was interesting as I thought the lawyer initially brought up the hockey game reference and not SA ?

This video was chilling.

 

[justbreathe]

Mom & Dad, Professions & Employers
MSM articles stated Dad is a law enforcement officer in an Indiana city, repeated here several times.

And MSM articles said Mom is an attorney. Where/how is she employed? Private law practice? Government? Corporate work? If her employer has been identified, I've missed it.

Anyone? TiA.

She was an assistant prosecutor in the local area.

 

[momsof3]

I think the parents' denial is the reason that they did not want to see the surveillance video when it was offered to them while they were still in San Juan. At the time, they did not want to let on that they thought SA's reckless behavior led to the tragic death of their daughter. Now that there have been criminal charges filed against Grandpa, maybe her parents will realize that they really need to watch the video to see exactly what caused their daughter's untimely death.

I truly wish that the parents would be able to come to terms with what happened, in whatever way they can, WITHOUT watching the video. Would you want your last memory of your child to be a look of terror on her face?

<modsnip>

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I truly wish that the parents would be able to come to terms with what happened, in whatever way they can, WITHOUT watching the video. Would you want your last memory of your child to be a look of terror on her face?...

I understand what you're saying, but Chloe's parents aren't accepting the truth about what really happened to their little girl. They want to blame Royal Caribbean instead of acknowledging that Grandpa's reckless behavior caused Chloe's death. If they can't or won't watch the video, I hope there is someone who will describe it to them so they know the truth about what actually happened and not the fairy tale that their attorney is promoting.

 

[momsof3]

I understand what you're saying, but Chloe's parents aren't accepting the truth about what really happened to their little girl. They want to blame Royal Caribbean instead of acknowledging that Grandpa's reckless behavior caused Chloe's death. If they can't or won't watch the video, I hope there is someone who will describe it to them so they know the truth about what actually happened and not the fairy tale that their attorney is promoting.

I totally agree with this - which is why I said I hope there is someway they can come to terms without watching the video. The way the family is dealing with it is confounding. I can't imagine the cruise line has any liability for all the reasons laid out in this thread.

There was a great post at #375 by @sl222 about family dynamics that seems spot on (I would quote it if I could figure out how to do multiple quotes).

 

[BeachSky]

Sometimes 2 things being present: excitement & end reward
can cause bad decision making.
Possibly SA was excited to be on that Cruise with his “best friend” and possibly he thought that seating her on the rail he would get the reward of her laughter &joy.
I think it was a tragic bad decision. Which IMO has been made worse by the family deflecting blame to the Cruise line. This is all about to come full circle back to what actually happened. A tragic bad decision.

all MOO

 

[they'll get you]

I truly wish that the parents would be able to come to terms with what happened, in whatever way they can, WITHOUT watching the video. Would you want your last memory of your child to be a look of terror on her face?

<modsnip>

I understand what your saying. A

I understand what you're saying, but Chloe's parents aren't accepting the truth about what really happened to their little girl. They want to blame Royal Caribbean instead of acknowledging that Grandpa's reckless behavior caused Chloe's death. If they can't or won't watch the video, I hope there is someone who will describe it to them so they know the truth about what actually happened and not the fairy tale that their attorney is promoting.

The video could be snipped slightly before Chloe fell.

I can't get my head around why he decided to go to the only window that was open unless subconsciously thought it was the cleanest.

 

[they'll get you]

Puerto Rico weather
7th July
Actual Temp
31°
27°
Hist. Avg.
31°/25°

https://www.accuweather.com/en/pr/san-juan/00901/july-weather/275478

Why were all the windows closed? Wind? Rain? 27°- 31° is a mild temperature those windows are usually open IIRC.
I wonder if someone went along and closed them after the fall.

 

[al66pine]

"Why were all the windows closed?". <<< From post below.
If we're talking about the 'wall of windows' on ship, IIRC not exactly accurate to say 'all the windows' were closed.' Most of them were fixed glass, not operable, not capable of being opened. They are meant to admit light to ship interior and give passengers ocean views.
Posters here who cruised on Freedom of the Seas, explained ---
- three rows of windows fill the 'wall' from floor to ceiling,
- some middle row windows are operable, for ex, every 5th or 8th window. (I don't recall the number).
It's not that every window was closed: most of them cannot open.
jmo
Or maybe I am misunderstanding the post, Entirely possible.

Puerto Rico weather
7th July
Actual Temp
31°
27°
Hist. Avg.
31°/25°

https://www.accuweather.com/en/pr/san-juan/00901/july-weather/275478
Why were all the windows closed? Wind? Rain? 27°- 31° is a mild temperature those windows are usually open IIRC.
I wonder if someone went along and closed them after the fall.

 

[they'll get you]

"Why were all the windows closed?". <<< From post below.
If we're talking about the 'wall of windows' on ship, IIRC not exactly accurate to say 'all the windows' were closed.' Most of them were fixed glass, not operable, not capable of being opened. They are meant to admit light to ship interior and give passengers ocean views.
Posters here who cruised on Freedom of the Seas, explained ---
- three rows of windows fill the 'wall' from floor to ceiling,
- some middle row windows are operable, for ex, every 5th or 8th window. (I don't recall the number).
It's not that every window was closed: most of them cannot open.
jmo
Or maybe I am misunderstanding the post, Entirely possible.

Ok. Majority of the windows.