IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

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Jupiter812

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I recently thought of some questions concerning the actions and statements of JW and family. JW became concerned enough to call the police within a few hours of finding that LS had apparently not come home after going out late at night. Originally I speculated that he knew of her heart condition, perhaps checked to see that she had not taken her medication, and thus knew that something was amiss. Later, when his family said that JW had been protecting her from the consequences of her drug use, some other ideas came to me. Would he call the police if he thought that the result might be her arrest or that of others on drug charges? Did he think that she might have OD'd and was in need of medical help? Did he have reason to think that she would not be just sleeping off a hangover somewhere? What did he know about the persons she had been with that night? Was he hoping that the result would be LS going into drug rehab and her suppliers going to jail?

JW and his family have a habit of going off as I'm sure you know. Their statements were to discredit Lauren and make JW look like golden boy. I figure JW heard about Lauren and who she was with by many observers that night.

Surely he knew about the ZO punch to CR. This may have worked on his ego so he thought along the lines of "I'll show CR...I'll call the police, see how the mf-er likes that!" (My attempt to sound like JW.)

So the MP report may have had a dual purpose assuming he didn't see her that night.
 

Jupiter812

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Or he was building a cover story to deflect from his own guilt....

This made me think about how JW and his dad showed up at 5 North.

Would JW punch CR if JW were guilty? I wonder...It seems he wouldn't but he does have a temper and it sure would bolster his position.
 

imkeylime

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DB, DB, DB, DB...How is it that it took more than two years for us to hear confirmation that he was there that night?

Jupiter, this is a really good and legitimate question, IMO. I can only think he had some type of alibi, but hopefully it wasn't JR saying he was sleeping in the next room! Perhaps he was sleeping in the next room with somebody? I mean, if we weren't privy to the fact that DB was in JR's apartment, perhaps there's somebody else we aren't privy to?

I do suspect DB's family has wondrous legal and PR teams at its disposal, but that surely wouldn't stop the BPD or even the Spierers' PI from digging deep, would it? I sure hope not. I really don't think so, TBH, but I do wonder what saved DB from more public disclosure earlier on, as do you.

Also, how does knowing that he WAS in Bloomington and at JR's affect the Runcible Spoon tweet? I saw that tweet, and I know it existed. IDK what it means, though ... was he simply eating at a local Bloomington establishment? By himself or with friends? Or is there more to it?

I know we've pondered this, and I have no answers. But I think it's worth revisiting since we now know he was actually in Bloomington.
 

Jupiter812

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You may be right. One of the reasons I am not overly critical of BPD is that the missing person report was filed so quickly -- You often hear of people being discouraged from filing a report so soon, but that didn't happen here. And, although that's a good point about how video may have played a part, it doesn't really sound like they treated the guys at 5 N like innocent friends, which they might have at first if they thought Lauren was just sleeping off a night of partying somewhere. It sounds like they were considered POI from the start.

I don't know. It's really hard to tell with so little info about the investigation. Maybe I'm just hopeful that LE took it seriously, and that they have evidence we don't know about that will eventually help the case...

It was my understanding that the MP report was allowed was due to her medical condition. They may have taken it seriously from that perspective...or they may have been following protocol but shrugged it off.

One thing's for sure, with each passing day in the first week, they rec'd more and more info until a serious, possibly fatal picture of a victim emerged.
 

imkeylime

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This made me think about how JW and his dad showed up at 5 North.

Would JW punch CR if JW were guilty? I wonder...It seems he wouldn't but he does have a temper and it sure would bolster his position.

If JW was a super controlling, crazy guy, he might punch CR for going after LS in the first place, even blaming him for how that forced his own hand in some way. I'm not saying he was or it did, though ... IMO, JW heard she was with CR, sensed CR was bad news (in more ways than one), and reacted strongly to that.

But ... I do wonder a bit about how fast JW's dad showed up in Bloomington. Basically, 1) JW went to LE in a speedy fashion, and 2) JW's dad arrived on the scene in a speedy fashion. That's kind of interesting, I've got to admit.
 

akh

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This made me think about how JW and his dad showed up at 5 North.

Would JW punch CR if JW were guilty? I wonder...It seems he wouldn't but he does have a temper and it sure would bolster his position.

Especially since he either had to take 'daddy' with him or be made to go by his dad who tagged along.

It might've been a show for his dad. Or a show for all of us.

Doesn't it bother anyone else his dad was with him when he went to the apartments? Doesn't that just seem odd as in wrong... embarrassing....? Not that it has to do with guilt but taking or allowing his dad to tag along?
 

Jupiter812

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Jupiter, this is a really good and legitimate question, IMO. I can only think he had some type of alibi, but hopefully it wasn't JR saying he was sleeping in the next room! Perhaps he was sleeping in the next room with somebody? I mean, if we weren't privy to the fact that DB was in JR's apartment, perhaps there's somebody else we aren't privy to?

I do suspect DB's family has wondrous legal and PR teams at its disposal, but that surely wouldn't stop the BPD or even the Spierers' PI from digging deep, would it? I sure hope not. I really don't think so, TBH, but I do wonder what saved DB from more public disclosure earlier on, as do you.

Also, how does knowing that he WAS in Bloomington and at JR's affect the Runcible Spoon tweet? I saw that tweet, and I know it existed. IDK what it means, though ... was he simply eating at a local Bloomington establishment? By himself or with friends? Or is there more to it?

I know we've pondered this, and I have no answers. But I think it's worth revisiting since we now know he was actually in Bloomington.

I doubt he was at the Spoon solo. It's a popular place for groups to have their hangover food and mimosas. He tweeted around 11 or Noon though, and I think that's early for hard partying the night before, unless of course he was in fact asleep and had been for a few hours.
 

Jupiter812

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Especially since he either had to take 'daddy' with him or be made to go by his dad who tagged along.

It might've been a show for his dad. Or a show for all of us.

Doesn't it bother anyone else his dad was with him when he went to the apartments? Doesn't that just seem odd as in wrong... embarrassing....? Not that it has to do with guilt but taking or allowing his dad to tag along?

LOL, I never thought of it that way. Dad has anger issues and gets hooked on adrenaline...drama.
 

Jupiter812

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If JW was a super controlling, crazy guy, he might punch CR for going after LS in the first place, even blaming him for how that forced his own hand in some way. I'm not saying he was or it did, though ... IMO, JW heard she was with CR, sensed CR was bad news (in more ways than one), and reacted strongly to that.

But ... I do wonder a bit about how fast JW's dad showed up in Bloomington. Basically, 1) JW went to LE in a speedy fashion, and 2) JW's dad arrived on the scene in a speedy fashion. That's kind of interesting, I've got to admit.

When you put it that way...the two quick-acting together like that...yes, it is even more suspicious.
 

Jupiter812

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These posts about JW and his dad are thought provoking. Keylime, your post about JW being crazy controlling and mad that CR forced his hand as you so aptly said...well the same could be said about the father IF JW IS RESPONSIBLE AND IF HE TOLD HIS DAD.
 

monkey222

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Akh, Excellent point. JWDaddy showed up..in 24 hrs..of report..correct..? I cannot even fathom my parents flying or darting to Bloom to coddle me and berate college acquaintences after a night of shenanagans. I am not making lite of this horrible outcome as we now know after 2 yrs of nothing...but at T=24hrs..for parent of bf's gf..to go to boys' apt..I must say..JW must have known and shared w Dad the substance and other? abuse this crew ciuld ve capable of.
 

Ros

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If JW was in a four week summer session, it would have ended about the time LS disappeared.

There were two stories about why LS was in town. 1. She was going to take a summer class at Ivy Tech that was going to start the next week, and 2. She was waiting for JW to finish a class and then she was going to drive back with him.

Maybe JW's dad flew out to share the driving back home, not wanting his son to be driving alone while he was emotionally upset.
 

Ros

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If JW was in a four week summer session, it would have ended about the time LS disappeared.

There were two stories about why LS was in town. 1. She was going to take a summer class at Ivy Tech that was going to start the next week, and 2. She was waiting for JW to finish a class and then she was going to drive back with him.

Maybe JW's dad flew out to share the driving back home, not wanting his son to be driving alone while he was emotionally upset.

I could imagine my parents making arrangements so that I would not have to drive when I was extremely upset.
 

Jupiter812

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If JW was in a four week summer session, it would have ended about the time LS disappeared.

There were two stories about why LS was in town. 1. She was going to take a summer class at Ivy Tech that was going to start the next week, and 2. She was waiting for JW to finish a class and then she was going to drive back with him.

Maybe JW's dad flew out to share the driving back home, not wanting his son to be driving alone while he was emotionally upset.

I could imagine my parents making arrangements so that I would not have to drive when I was extremely upset.

Yes, that is a possibility too. However your titling of it as "reasonable" implies that the ones above are not and I think they are given the family's public behavior.
 

akh

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If JW was in a four week summer session, it would have ended about the time LS disappeared.

There were two stories about why LS was in town. 1. She was going to take a summer class at Ivy Tech that was going to start the next week, and 2. She was waiting for JW to finish a class and then she was going to drive back with him.

Maybe JW's dad flew out to share the driving back home, not wanting his son to be driving alone while he was emotionally upset.

I could imagine my parents making arrangements so that I would not have to drive when I was extremely upset.

If he was going home within 24/48 hours of her disappearance then that begs all kinds of questions. #1 wouldn't those plans immediately change if his significant other suddenly was officially missing? I think it's weird the dad was here at all to be honest but I suppose there could've already been something preplanned. But if it was to help drive his son back that soon after her disappearance then it's back to being odd.
 

Jupiter812

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If JW was in a four week summer session, it would have ended about the time LS disappeared.

There were two stories about why LS was in town. 1. She was going to take a summer class at Ivy Tech that was going to start the next week, and 2. She was waiting for JW to finish a class and then she was going to drive back with him.

Maybe JW's dad flew out to share the driving back home, not wanting his son to be driving alone while he was emotionally upset.

I could imagine my parents making arrangements so that I would not have to drive when I was extremely upset.

Really, though, wouldn't you stick around to look for her, to be close to LE, to be nearby for when SHE IS FOUND?
 

Lorelilly

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I've had the same thought a number of times ... he was involved from point A to point B, and there's no proof he wasn't involved from point B to point C (whatever that was). CR can't give him an alibi, since he was (according to MB), passed out (and has amnesia).

Another question is whether DB (JR's hometown friend) was really asleep in the next room at JR's when MB and LS arrived
(or at the very least, stayed asleep). Unless he was passed out like CR (???), wouldn't the commotion have woken him up? He hasn't been in the media like JR, CR, and MB, but if he was at JR's, I'd think that he would have heard/saw something. Unless he/JR claim he was sound asleep all night, like MB/CR claim CR was passed out.

CR could have been passed out, if he was in near the condition of LS. But passed out and asleep are very different things, when it comes to being woken up, IMO. Actually, when you think about it that way, MB could be giving CR an alibi (he was passed out), as could JR with DB (he was asleep in the next room). Or maybe it's just a way of keeping them from having to say anything, i.e., if one is asleep or passed out, he wouldn't know what's going on.

I'm not sure where else to go with this, but it might be something to think about. MB/CR are starting to equal JR/DB for some reason to me ...

At least we finally know DB was there that night. If JR was just putting
on "sweats" (fake) at 3:30 when MB brought LS to his apartment then I believe DB was awake. God I wonder what DB told LE.

I believe SO strongly that LS never left 5N alive... There has been talk of Lauren having a key card and fake ID on her when she arrived at JR's. She's lost ALL of her belongings except those two things. Those two things are thin and compact. Those two things would NOT have fallen out. I think she had those two things in her bra and at some point at JR's she was undressed...which then leads me to believe the worst.

As another member posted (I don't have the exact quote, I'm remembering, and my memory has seen better days) Lauren was the ONLY female around after the Smallwood incident. All Four, CR, MB, JR and DB know what happened to LS though all Four may not know where her body is. (how convenient) Think about it...if only ONE knew where she was 'placed' then the other three have plausible deniability. Did MB have a car on June 3?

The question has been asked, "How can four drunk and high 20 year old's keep a secret like this?" They have TOO much to lose if they don't. I'd lay money on the fact that some, if not all of them, have gotten away with "bad" things their whole lives. As with Jodi Arias, one wonders if the parents of these four looked inward and asked themselves if their son could have anything to do with Lauren's disappearance? I'm starting to believe that between the four of them there's One sociopath... After-all this group would have needed a "director."
 
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I just watched the 35 min Dan Allquire youtube. I have never heard of him or remote viewing. Not sure what to make of it at all. But. .it made me uneasy. I would imagine that some scenario as described would occur as she had to be removed in some sort of vehicle..unless she literally slipped thru a crack...and the descrip of bodily fluids..well..quite certain that could occur in her state of consciousness as PIs have previuosly described from alley video. Does anyone know if Allquire works w LE??

He does, and he has successfully located missing people in the past. He is part of small but prestigious group, HRVG, of remote viewers that are led by a former military trained remote viewer (project stargate). They follow strict double blind military protocol. He is considered one of the best/most accurate and highly regarded remote viewers in the world, as are most of the core members of HRVG. However, to be fair none of this means he is right or that he is wrong.
 
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Um, no we have not (that I'm aware of) discussed Dick Allgire. But I am watching now. Wow. I'm only at 9 minutes. I think one of the early ideograms could be ZO punching CR.

Heads up to non-believers: Just SOB please! :seeya: as in scroll on by...

we have, but it's been quite a while back, I found this video last year and sent it to the Spierers.
 
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What it brought to mind for me is:

* The description of the guy as one who could be Hispanic reminded me of what a friend told me. His nephew worked at Kilroy's and said a "Mexican" kept following Lauren around when she was there asking if she wanted coke.

* I scoped out a house at N. Washington and Ninth St. well over a year ago after a previous poster said a PI visited a business one block away, asking if they had any videotape. It is a large, two-story student party house with many cars, all of which were Illinois plates.

OH HOLY! In my opinion this is important. I've always put a good deal of stock in DA's RV, maybe because I was already familiar with it and his reputation and record, my only hold out is how damn guilty these 5N boys have made themselves look if they are innocent. Why on earth would they do that?
 
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