IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kadence

Verified insider - Colin Gillis case
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
336
Reaction score
1
I am still bothered by HT's comment about Lauren: "...unfortunately it went too far this time" - what DOES that mean?

Redirecting to Mophebius' post from 6-29-11 because it raises some interesting questions. I, for one, am going to go back to the beginning of the Lauren's thread and look for things I might have missed. I have asked before why HT gets a "pass" - I think she was jealous of Lauren and, even though they were roommates, maybe she wanted to get Lauren in trouble with JW - girls can be nasty and vengeful, present company excepted :)

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6790981&postcount=471"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13[/ame]
 

Ros

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
959
Reaction score
19
Last Saturday three men tried to abduct a 20 year old woman in Bloomington but did not succeed because she knew martial arts. BPD already lists this case as "inactive." !?! The location of the abduction attempt is about three blocks east of Smallwood.

Seems as if BPD would be trying to find security video from the area, comparing the description of the SUV to the vehicles seen on the video when LS disappeared, etc., and checking to see if anyone showed up at an immediate care center with a broken nose or other facial injuries.

http://idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=93935
 

imkeylime

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
0
Last Saturday three men tried to abduct a 20 year old woman in Bloomington but did not succeed because she knew martial arts. BPD already lists this case as "inactive." !?! The location of the abduction attempt is about three blocks east of Smallwood.

Seems as if BPD would be trying to find security video from the area, comparing the description of the SUV to the vehicles seen on the video when LS disappeared, etc., and checking to see if anyone showed up at an immediate care center with a broken nose or other facial injuries.

http://idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=93935

OK, this is as seriously disturbing as the truck decal incident! Is it inactive because she fought him off because she knew martial arts or because of some other reason? Is there any reason she could be deemed unreliable? If there are three men in town trying to abduct young women it needs to be active, regardless of the outcome. I know we all know this. Am I missing something?
 

Kadence

Verified insider - Colin Gillis case
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
336
Reaction score
1
If JW was a super controlling, crazy guy, he might punch CR for going after LS in the first place, even blaming him for how that forced his own hand in some way. I'm not saying he was or it did, though ... IMO, JW heard she was with CR, sensed CR was bad news (in more ways than one), and reacted strongly to that.

But ... I do wonder a bit about how fast JW's dad showed up in Bloomington. Basically, 1) JW went to LE in a speedy fashion, and 2) JW's dad arrived on the scene in a speedy fashion. That's kind of interesting, I've got to admit.

OK, this is as seriously disturbing as the truck decal incident! Is it inactive because she fought him off because she knew martial arts or because of some other reason? Is there any reason she could be deemed unreliable? If there are three men in town trying to abduct young women it needs to be active, regardless of the outcome. I know we all know this. Am I missing something?

Yep, that truck decal thing is definitely beyond disgusting! You have to really wonder about the person whose head that idea came out of - creepy!

As far as the "inactive" listing of this case - maybe they got the perps? I would hope a woman wouldn't make up something like this especially in light of Lauren being missing!

Locals and experts can you tell us how close East Eighth Street and North Lincoln Street are to where Lauren disappeared? Ixchel - I believe it was you who observed an almost abduction of a friend, was this in this area? It was two or three guys? As I recall, not the same vehicle, but maybe they took one of the other's vehicles this time? Sorry - no time to look back but I do think this near abduction incident warrants further sleuthing.

This link says nothing about the case being "inactive", instead it asks for further info? Strange:

http://www.wbiw.com/local/archive/2013/09/woman-wards-off-would-be-abductor.php

WHY are women still walking alone late at night/early in the morning? If you're reading and are doing it - PLEASE stop! Pass it along as well!

BTW, kudos for kicking that bas&%d in the face! I hope she did some serious damage! Hoping LE is following up with hospitals, doctors to see if anyone has seen anything.
 

Ashley426

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
279
Reaction score
4
Yep, that truck decal thing is definitely beyond disgusting! You have to really wonder about the person whose head that idea came out of - creepy!

As far as the "inactive" listing of this case - maybe they got the perps? I would hope a woman wouldn't make up something like this especially in light of Lauren being missing!

Locals and experts can you tell us how close East Eighth Street and North Lincoln Street are to where Lauren disappeared? Ixchel - I believe it was you who observed an almost abduction of a friend, was this in this area? It was two or three guys? As I recall, not the same vehicle, but maybe they took one of the other's vehicles this time? Sorry - no time to look back but I do think this near abduction incident warrants further sleuthing.

This link says nothing about the case being "inactive", instead it asks for further info? Strange:

http://www.wbiw.com/local/archive/2013/09/woman-wards-off-would-be-abductor.php

WHY are women still walking alone late at night/early in the morning? If you're reading and are doing it - PLEASE stop! Pass it along as well!

BTW, kudos for kicking that bas&%d in the face! I hope she did some serious damage! Hoping LE is following up with hospitals, doctors to see if anyone has seen anything.

I haven't been to Bloomington in a while, but according to Google maps it's only 1/2 mile from East 8th & North Lincoln to 11th & College, where Lauren was last reported being seen turning the corner.
 

Lorelilly

New Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
1,305
Reaction score
2
Last Saturday three men tried to abduct a 20 year old woman in Bloomington but did not succeed because she knew martial arts. BPD already lists this case as "inactive." !?! The location of the abduction attempt is about three blocks east of Smallwood.

Seems as if BPD would be trying to find security video from the area, comparing the description of the SUV to the vehicles seen on the video when LS disappeared, etc., and checking to see if anyone showed up at an immediate care center with a broken nose or other facial injuries.

http://idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=93935
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

imkeylime

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
0
Yep, that truck decal thing is definitely beyond disgusting! You have to really wonder about the person whose head that idea came out of - creepy! ...

This link says nothing about the case being "inactive", instead it asks for further info? Strange:

http://www.wbiw.com/local/archive/2013/09/woman-wards-off-would-be-abductor.php

WHY are women still walking alone late at night/early in the morning? If you're reading and are doing it - PLEASE stop! Pass it along as well!

BTW, kudos for kicking that bas&%d in the face! I hope she did some serious damage! Hoping LE is following up with hospitals, doctors to see if anyone has seen anything.

Respectfully snipped by me. Re: decal: We still have a ways to go. Re: walking alone: We may have a further way to go. I see it in my own small New England town. The girls think it's safe because everybody knows everybody. I don't agree with that, obviously. It only takes one psycho, who could live next door. In addition, there are people who pass through town or come to it for some type of employment.

I wonder if the woman could ID any of the abductors ... maybe, if she kicked one of them in the face!
 

Ros

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
959
Reaction score
19
I haven't been to Bloomington in a while, but according to Google maps it's only 1/2 mile from East 8th & North Lincoln to 11th & College, where Lauren was last reported being seen turning the corner.

Smallwood is between 8th and 9th Streets on College. Lincoln is three blocks east of College.
 

elmorejames

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
182
Reaction score
0
I said umpteen threads ago that it was weird that JWs father hustled out to Bloomington, weirder he approached CRs with JW, and above weird he didn't stay with his son to support the Spierers. His brother said earlier on something to the like that it "will screw my brothers life up... I don't he will survive this..."

I know JW couldn't help in the organized search being a POI but why leave, why stay silent, why not poly, why do the parents talk for him and in a protective negative tone?
 

akh

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
856
Reaction score
15
While the 5N guys should remain PsOI 1A collectively due to circumstances, I find it hard to believe JW has gotten as much benefit of the doubt as he has. He IMHO should be a strong POI 1B. At least based on what we know. I know I've said most of this before but perhaps it bears repeating.

Based on the PI's comments and later the Spierers it would appear JW doesn't really have a solid alibi.

Statistically, if it could be proven LS left JR's apartment then JW would go to the top of the list quickly. Then again if it could be proven she didn't leave, this case would be in an entirely different place right now.

For something to have happened at 5N we have to speculate on motive. We even have to speculate on the situation to even get to that point. For JW, motive would be fairly simple: Jealousy. LS was with CR at the Indy 500. Did JW know that? Then here she was with CR again on June 3rd. What about the days between the 500 and June 3rd? Even if nothing romantically was happening, we've heard CR had designs on something happening. And she was clearly partying and hanging around guys that were not JW. Guys you'd think JW wouldn't trust her with. Whether he had a call from someone telling him about the confrontation at SW or anything else that night, how hard would it be to picture a scenario where he had a fairly good idea where she was anyway regardless of direct info... 5N.... Especially if he was a jealous type and not trusting of her and she wasn't answering her phone or contacting him. It wouldn't take Bo Deitl to put two and two together and decide that she could be at 5N and so decide to watch and wait. Maybe to confront her. Maybe to watch and use it against her later to try and catch her in a lie. Maybe just to prove to himself she was NOT there. But then he sees her leaving these guys' apartments. Obviously, drunk/high... 4:30AM... and he confronts her. And he snaps. And then all bets are off to what happens next except it's not good for LS. It's an old story and not a terribly unique one. And it could explain why searching the apartments didn't yield the smoking gun to prove a theory to support anyone at 5N's guilt.

Then you have the IMHO early jump to 'missing' when it was very possible she was just sleeping at a friends... And more importantly, jumping to the conclusion she hadn't already been home and left. How would he know that? Especially after finding her phone was at Kilroy's. I'd think this would if anything calm his fears a bit because it would explain her not answering her phone. And then factor in he'd still not be sure she hadn't been home and left. For some reason he went awfully quick into 'missing person' territory, involving the police, when I wonder how unusual it even was on a Friday afternoon for her to not be at the apartment?

So it's questionable two-fold- Questionable that he'd not think it likely she was at a friend's place.... And more questionable (without more info than we've been told) to think that she hadn't been home and left already. Maybe in search of her phone for all he should've known at that point. And by jumping to missing person and involving LE, he'd now be opening the possibility of getting her in legal trouble.

Then add in dad's quick arrival... The odd (IMHO) confrontation... And then when you talk about lack of cooperation I'm not sure how he doesn't go to the top of that list. For all the talk about JR's lack of cooperation, he actually met with the parents. Maybe they think he withheld info. Maybe he didn't tell them what they wanted to hear or expected to hear. Maybe he lied continuously. OTOH, actually having a face to face, sitdown meeting, isn't 'no cooperation'. What has JW done to further the case?

Meanwhile, for 5N guys to be the guilty party you have several people to be involved and limited theories as to what must've occurred. And you have a ground zero to search for evidence to support those theories. If they did find anything it was certainly not strong enough to act upon by itself.

It might be questionable that she was able to walk out of 5N at 4:30AM but I don't think it's clearly impossible to think that she did. And that could've made her an easy target for an opportunistic random psycho, or been the final piece of the puzzle to set off a jealous, suspicious, possessive boyfriend.
 

AbbeyR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
26
Re: "Woman fights off abductor with kung fu skills"

Last Saturday three men tried to abduct a 20 year old woman in Bloomington but did not succeed because she knew martial arts....

Is it just me, or does this story sound totally fake?...
 

AbbeyR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
26
Some good points, akh.

Just a few thoughts though...

For something to have happened at 5N we have to speculate on motive. We even have to speculate on the situation to even get to that point. For JW, motive would be fairly simple: Jealousy.

You have to speculate on motive for any scenario. For 5 N, there are a few possibilities that don't seem like much of a stretch that are also common scenarios -- there are huge red flags that point to possibilities of an overdose or sexual assault, IMO. For JW, that motive is an obvious one statistically, but it's still just as 'imagined' as any other theory. If there was reason to believe that JW really was jealous, controlling or had a history of rage/violence, I would look at him a lot harder. So far, only "clue" anyone has had to offer on this is a movie quote from his facebook page.

And you have a ground zero to search for evidence to support those theories. .

Same goes for JW, no?

I agree with both you and E.J. about the weirdness of JW and his parents' actions though. They seem to be protective to the point of being in attack mode, which makes me suspicious that they feel they need to cover for him, and/or don't trust him to speak for himself. My guess is that this might have more to do with other factors though. (Why he allows them to speak for him, I have no idea. He's an adult and perfectly capable of making his own statements.)

I'm not against talking about JW though. I think he's gotten off easy, considering his actions and lack thereof.
 

imkeylime

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
0
Re: "Woman fights off abductor with kung fu skills"



Is it just me, or does this story sound totally fake?...

The way it's written sounds fake, i.e., the "kung fu skills," but that may just be the writer's spin. I know for a fact that some young women are looking into these skills ... my daughter wants to take a martial arts-based self defense course ... probably because she's sick of hearing me say not to walk alone, LOL. I told her go to for it (but still not walk alone!).
 

akh

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
856
Reaction score
15
Some good points, akh.

Just a few thoughts though...



You have to speculate on motive for any scenario. For 5 N, there are a few possibilities that don't seem like much of a stretch that are also common scenarios -- there are huge red flags that point to possibilities of an overdose or sexual assault, IMO. For JW, that motive is an obvious one statistically, but it's still just as 'imagined' as any other theory.

Let me restate or go a little deeper...
JW would've had a reason to be jealous. There's no speculation there. His gf was partying with other males late into the night and hadn't made contact with him.

Meanwhile for 5N we have to speculate that something bad even happened there to get to speculation about motive. We have to speculate on whether she was anything more than just drunk/high at the apartments before we can get to thinking about any motives.

If there was reason to believe that JW really was jealous, controlling or had a history of rage/violence, I would look at him a lot harder. So far, only "clue" anyone has had to offer on this is a movie quote from his facebook page.

I'm not exactly sure how or why'd we expect to have this information?

Same goes for JW, no?

As far as ground zero? Not necessarily. If he or anyone else grabbed her off the street and put her into a vehicle then evidence could be anywhere.

The theories about 5N tend to be something/everything happening there.
 

Jupiter812

New Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
1,752
Reaction score
1
The way it's written sounds fake, i.e., the "kung fu skills," but that may just be the writer's spin. I know for a fact that some young women are looking into these skills ... my daughter wants to take a martial arts-based self defense course ... probably because she's sick of hearing me say not to walk alone, LOL. I told her go to for it (but still not walk alone!).

Could be, could be, especially if the source is the student newspaper.
 

Jupiter812

New Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
1,752
Reaction score
1
I've never brought this up because it doesn't seem likely but whenever I think about the two phone calls that were made from JR's--one to DR and one to "mystery person" in the back of my mind I always wonder if it could be JW. I doubt JR would call JW seeing that JR is the one who introduced CR and Lauren, but still ...

I also wonder if the group at large has a GO TO GUY for hire, on speed dial, who gives rides and earns good money for pick-ups and deliveries of party supplies and people.
 

doubtingthomas

New Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
213
Reaction score
1
Snipped by me from ROS post:

There were two stories about why LS was in town. 1. She was going to take a summer class at Ivy Tech that was going to start the next week, and 2. She was waiting for JW to finish a class and then she was going to drive back with him.

I have begun to wonder if LS had decided to not ride back with JW and stay in Btown if she was indeed going to Ivy Tech. Why would you stay for two weeks until your "boyfriend" finish classes, yet hang out with the 5N guys for two weekends prior to leaving? And why would you ride back home only to return a week later for class? If LS had told JW she was not going back with him, maybe his dad decided to come to Btown and ride back with him. It has been said many times here that JW had the motives. If LS had told him it was over I could see JW trying to frame CR and/or all the 5N POI's. The confrontation he and his dad had against CR could have been a show to make it look like he cared and we would not suppect him of any foul play. Just thinking out loud.
 

imkeylime

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
0
I thought she had just finished up classes at Ivy Tech and was heading to NYC for an internship for the rest of the summer. I was under the impression she finished up earlier in the week and was waiting for JW to finish his classes so they could ride back together.

http://www.idsnews.com/news/NewStoryPrint.aspx?id=81836

According to the following article (a followup to the one you posted?), she was supposed to go back to New York and do an internship at Anthropologie:

http://journalism.indiana.edu/studentwork/gallery/spierer-not-a-poster/

I'm not sure about the timing, but I'd think that supports her driving back with JW. Maybe someone else knows the summer schedule for Ivy Tech?

I never thought too much about her hanging out with guys other than JW in general ... I see a lot of that nowadays ... girls with guy friends who also have boyfriends. OTOH, if she was hanging out with them and avoiding JW, that would be a different story.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top