IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

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Ros

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I thought she had just finished up classes at Ivy Tech and was heading to NYC for an internship for the rest of the summer. I was under the impression she finished up earlier in the week and was waiting for JW to finish his classes so they could ride back together.

http://www.idsnews.com/news/NewStoryPrint.aspx?id=81836

The original article is no longer there, but the Google cache is still available:

"Spierer, who just finished her sophomore year at IU studying apparel merchandising, was last seen walking south on College Avenue from 11th Street on her way back to her apartment in Smallwood Plaza. Video footage does not show her entering the apartment complex. She was supposed to start a class on Monday at Ivy Tech, according to Ivy Tech's vice chancellor for student affairs Jennie Vaughan."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../normal/18815.html+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 

Ros

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I thought she had just finished up classes at Ivy Tech and was heading to NYC for an internship for the rest of the summer. I was under the impression she finished up earlier in the week and was waiting for JW to finish his classes so they could ride back together.

http://www.idsnews.com/news/NewStoryPrint.aspx?id=81836

Here's another article that said she was taking a summer class before heading back to NY for an internship:

"Originally from New York, she had just finished her sophomore year and was taking a summer class before heading to New York for an internship with Anthropologie."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spierer-update-mothers-plea-press-conferences/story?id=13824266
 

Jupiter812

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Since we've been looking at JW and it's difficult to do so w/o also noticing his parents I re-read this article and pulled out some highlights. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

The Wolff's say:

Bloomington police are untrustworthy and inept
The Spierer's are liars
Lauren is a serious drug user

Me thinks the Wolff's doth protest too much. I would find them more reliable if their words were backed up by proof. But, for example, since Lauren was a University Division scholar--and I assume this distinction is based on her two years in college--them how could she have been seriously into drugs? I don't deny that she used drugs irresponsibly, given her heart condition. If the Wolff's wanted to gain my admiration for JW by making Lauren look like the culprit, they don't succeed.

I do find it interesting that JW's dad said JW told Lauren to "call" him if she wanted to talk later that night. At least we know they didn't exclusively text only. And I wonder if by "talk" we can construe they had something they needed to talk about. When I was that age and I had plans with others for the night, I would go to my BF's afterward.

Also interesting is CR's friends says that CR "knows that he got in a fight with some of Jesse (Wolff's) friends in Smallwood." So once again, I repeat that I find it unbelievable JW did not know about this until the next day.

Lastly, to JW and JW's parents: IF YOU WANT THE SPIERERS AND THE MEDIA TO LEAVE YOUR SON ALONE, HAVE HIM TAKE A POLICE-ADMINISTERED POLY.
 

imkeylime

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Since we've been looking at JW and it's difficult to do so w/o also noticing his parents I re-read this article and pulled out some highlights. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

The Wolff's say:

Bloomington police are untrustworthy and inept
The Spierer's are liars
Lauren is a serious drug user

Me thinks the Wolff's doth protest too much. I would find them more reliable if their words were backed up by proof. But, for example, since Lauren was a University Division scholar--and I assume this distinction is based on her two years in college--them how could she have been seriously into drugs? I don't deny that she used drugs irresponsibly, given her heart condition. If the Wolff's wanted to gain my admiration for JW by making Lauren look like the culprit, they don't succeed.

I do find it interesting that JW's dad said JW told Lauren to "call" him if she wanted to talk later that night. At least we know they didn't exclusively text only. And I wonder if by "talk" we can construe they had something they needed to talk about. When I was that age and I had plans with others for the night, I would go to my BF's afterward.

Also interesting is CR's friends says that CR "knows that he got in a fight with some of Jesse (Wolff's) friends in Smallwood." So once again, I repeat that I find it unbelievable JW did not know about this until the next day.

Lastly, to JW and JW's parents: IF YOU WANT THE SPIERERS AND THE MEDIA TO LEAVE YOUR SON ALONE, HAVE HIM TAKE A POLICE-ADMINISTERED POLY.

You make a number of good points. In terms of the alleged heavy drug use: I agree with you ... it would be hard to maintain that academic standing with a serious drug habit. But that in itself doesn't really matter. The Wolffs are using a distraction technique here ... regardless of what LS took or drank that night or any other night, she didn't go poof in the night air.

And frankly, if JW knew LS had this serious drug problem, he probably knew who fed it ... and such a person or people should be part of the investigation. IDK if JW is involved in this, but I sense he knows something or his parents wouldn't be so darned defensive. JW could have taken an FBI-administered poly if he didn't trust the BPD. I believe that's what DR did.
 

Jupiter812

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You make a number of good points. In terms of the alleged heavy drug use: I agree with you ... it would be hard to maintain that academic standing with a serious drug habit. But that in itself doesn't really matter. The Wolffs are using a distraction technique here ... regardless of what LS took or drank that night or any other night, she didn't go poof in the night air.

And frankly, if JW knew LS had this serious drug problem, he probably knew who fed it ... and such a person or people should be part of the investigation. IDK if JW is involved in this, but I sense he knows something or his parents wouldn't be so darned defensive. JW could have taken an FBI-administered poly if he didn't trust the BPD. I believe that's what DR did.


Well said and a great summation.

In the article JW's mother is quoted as saying "the polygraph was administered by a retired FBI polygrapher with "irrefutable credentials." This was just two weeks after the disappearance.

One thing I'll give the Wolff's is props for asking him to take a poly and sharing this: "We did it because we wanted to be 100 percent sure," she said. "We thought he was innocent, but you could never be 100 percent sure." If they didn't believe him how can we?
 

imkeylime

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Well said and a great summation.

In the article JW's mother is quoted as saying "the polygraph was administered by a retired FBI polygrapher with "irrefutable credentials." This was just two weeks after the disappearance.

One thing I'll give the Wolff's is props for asking him to take a poly and sharing this: "We did it because we wanted to be 100 percent sure," she said. "We thought he was innocent, but you could never be 100 percent sure." If they didn't believe him how can we?

It's suspicious when a POI won't take an LE-administered polygraph, for obvious reasons. And I know they can be manipulated, whether LE- or privately administered. But apart from that, IDK enough about them. I so don't want to instigate another great debate, only say that from what I learned from the OCCK case, the results can be interpreted in various ways.

In that case (as I've probably shared), the private polygrapher didn't think the suspect passed, yet LE let the results slide, it recently turned out. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that (since physical evidence disappeared in the interim). So I don't think Mrs. W. can be 100 percent sure, regardless. But not taking the LE polygraph raises suspicions, no doubt.

If I was in the Ws' shoes, I think I'd want to do everything possible to quell all suspicions if I thought my son was totally innocent. But as you point out, she wasn't 100 percent sure.
 

Kadence

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Well said and a great summation.

In the article JW's mother is quoted as saying "the polygraph was administered by a retired FBI polygrapher with "irrefutable credentials." This was just two weeks after the disappearance.

One thing I'll give the Wolff's is props for asking him to take a poly and sharing this: "We did it because we wanted to be 100 percent sure," she said. "We thought he was innocent, but you could never be 100 percent sure." If they didn't believe him how can we?

Hi Jupiter - great catch! That IS a very strange comment for parents to make! Things that make you say hmmm. If my child was in a similar situation, I can't see myself uttering that statement.
 

Kadence

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Have we made a list based on motive yet? Who had or may have had motive to want Lauren incapacitated or hurt or disappeared and the reason?

1. JW - Upset/jealous that LS was with someone else
2. CR - wanted to be with her
3. HT - jealousy
4. ZO - upset that she didn't stay at Smallwood
5. Random perp - seized the opportunity

Please expand on to the list, my brain is on overload right now so excuse me.

Also, btw, all of you are very caring people, in case no one has told you that lately! :)
 

imkeylime

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Have we made a list based on motive yet? Who had or may have had motive to want Lauren incapacitated or hurt or disappeared and the reason?

1. JW - Upset/jealous that LS was with someone else
2. CR - wanted to be with her
3. HT - jealousy
4. ZO - upset that she didn't stay at Smallwood
5. Random perp - seized the opportunity

Please expand on to the list, my brain is on overload right now so excuse me.

Also, btw, all of you are very caring people, in case no one has told you that lately! :)

I'd add:

CR, or JR, or MB, or DB:
Tried to be with her, but she passed on

Or

Same list:
Was (were?) with her, and she passed on

We can't rule out sexual assault or attempted sexual assault, where she couldn't say "no," due to her condition, or couldn't fight back. Maybe she was passed out but then stopped breathing? I hate the thought of multiple assaults, so I seldom go there. But we know it happens ...

Ditto on the caring ... :)
 

Jupiter812

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Hi Jupiter - great catch! That IS a very strange comment for parents to make! Things that make you say hmmm. If my child was in a similar situation, I can't see myself uttering that statement.

IKR?! I wonder if she's doing a facepalm over that one.
 

Jupiter812

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Have we made a list based on motive yet? Who had or may have had motive to want Lauren incapacitated or hurt or disappeared and the reason?

1. JW - Upset/jealous that LS was with someone else
2. CR - wanted to be with her
3. HT - jealousy
4. ZO - upset that she didn't stay at Smallwood
5. Random perp - seized the opportunity

Please expand on to the list, my brain is on overload right now so excuse me.

Also, btw, all of you are very caring people, in case no one has told you that lately! :)

Hide a drug overdose in which one or more POI played a role
Hide an accidental death in which one or more may or may not have played a role
 

imkeylime

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Or hide a long QT attack that they thought was a drug overdose or an accidental death in which one or more POI thought he played a role? Not many people knew about her long QT syndrome, right? I've always wondered about that ...
 

Ixchel13

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I've never brought this up because it doesn't seem likely but whenever I think about the two phone calls that were made from JR's--one to DR and one to "mystery person" in the back of my mind I always wonder if it could be JW. I doubt JR would call JW seeing that JR is the one who introduced CR and Lauren, but still ...

I also wonder if the group at large has a GO TO GUY for hire, on speed dial, who gives rides and earns good money for pick-ups and deliveries of party supplies and people.

LE has said that two phone calls were made, in several different ways, but they have never said, "only two phone calls were made." IMO, more than two phone calls/texts were made, but they won't say to whom or why. In this lies the mystery to who else could be POIs, incl. her rommates and ZC.
 

Ixchel13

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And if JW was told that LS left 5N at 4:30 a.m. to go home without her phone ...and he knew that she was not at home and HT had not seen her... that might have been enough to make him want to call the police right away.

JMO, but for some reason I feel like they, IOW, her roomamates and possibly ZC, were looking for her the night/early morning she went missing. It's back to the phone calls and her phone, I think there was communication between several people who haven't been mentioned per se as POIs, and they knew Lauren didn't make it back to SW. I'm beginning to think she did leave 5N, that doesn't necessarily clear anyone there especially DB because someone could have followed her as she left, but I think there was at least one more phone call from JRs, and then that phone call led to other texts, and people, i.e. roommates, JW, were looking for her after she left and someone. either random or not, did find her and brought her to X location. If we could just imagine that she could have left, leaving her at large, then the possibilities go way up for others' involvement, including of course but not limiting the 5N POIs. And, being the ratf$#@&s that the AEPIs are, if any of them were involved, they won't tell on each other, that's why even if JR knows who did it besides himself or the other 5N pois, he won't give them up. They all have counter-blackmails on each other. The kind of things these disreputes do, such as dealing and drugging (rufies), and who knows what else, if one goes down they all go down and they know it.
At this point, I'm thinking she rallied and left, but was immediately targeted, and JMO, I'm no fan of HT or ZC, and I still think the video BTown talks about has the roomies looking for her/finding her on it.
 

Lorelilly

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JMO, but for some reason I feel like they, IOW, her roomamates and possibly ZC, were looking for her the night/early morning she went missing. It's back to the phone calls and her phone, I think there was communication between several people who haven't been mentioned per se as POIs, and they knew Lauren didn't make it back to SW. I'm beginning to think she did leave 5N, that doesn't necessarily clear anyone there especially DB because someone could have followed her as she left, but I think there was at least one more phone call from JRs, and then that phone call led to other texts, and people, i.e. roommates, JW, were looking for her after she left and someone. either random or not, did find her and brought her to X location. If we could just imagine that she could have left, leaving her at large, then the possibilities go way up for others' involvement, including of course but not limiting the 5N POIs. And, being the ratf$#@&s that the AEPIs are, if any of them were involved, they won't tell on each other, that's why even if JR knows who did it besides himself or the other 5N pois, he won't give them up. They all have counter-blackmails on each other. The kind of things these disreputes do, such as dealing and drugging (rufies), and who knows what else, if one goes down they all go down and they know it.
At this point, I'm thinking she rallied and left, but was immediately targeted, and JMO, I'm no fan of HT or ZC, and I still think the video BTown talks about has the roomies looking for her/finding her on it.


If there was such a video we wouldn't be here 2 years and 3 months later... and no closer to finding Lauren.
 

CoolJ

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This case is just so bizarre. So many possibilities but I cant help to keep coming back to that white truck. It just seems so clear to me that there is something in the back that looks like a blonde female. Now thinking along those lines you have to wonder that even if it was LS why the heck would anyone put her in the back.... just doesn't make any sense no matter what thought process you are using... but it just looks so much like her.. it cant be a coincidence can it?

What if that picture was photoshopped by LE to make it look like LS was in the truck. Could they have been trying to get a response from someone? Could they have superimposed a picture of her from the streets that night and put it in the back of the truck for some reason?

In another picture of that truck released by LE from a different angle it appears to me that something near the curb is blurred out. Maybe I am seeing things but it looks like I can see a hand and an outline of a body. Maybe two. Also in this picture if you look in the window reflection of the building and look in the area of the blur I really think I see the back of a person sitting on the curb.

Anyone have any thoughts on any of that? Did I explain my thoughts clearly enough?
 

Ros

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This case is just so bizarre. So many possibilities but I cant help to keep coming back to that white truck. It just seems so clear to me that there is something in the back that looks like a blonde female. Now thinking along those lines you have to wonder that even if it was LS why the heck would anyone put her in the back.... just doesn't make any sense no matter what thought process you are using... but it just looks so much like her.. it cant be a coincidence can it?

What if that picture was photoshopped by LE to make it look like LS was in the truck. Could they have been trying to get a response from someone? Could they have superimposed a picture of her from the streets that night and put it in the back of the truck for some reason?

In another picture of that truck released by LE from a different angle it appears to me that something near the curb is blurred out. Maybe I am seeing things but it looks like I can see a hand and an outline of a body. Maybe two. Also in this picture if you look in the window reflection of the building and look in the area of the blur I really think I see the back of a person sitting on the curb.

Anyone have any thoughts on any of that? Did I explain my thoughts clearly enough?
Is there another picture besides these two:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/police-truck-circled-block-night-spierer-last-seen
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=lauren+spierer+white+truck&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35
 

imkeylime

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JMO, but for some reason I feel like they, IOW, her roomamates and possibly ZC, were looking for her the night/early morning she went missing. It's back to the phone calls and her phone, I think there was communication between several people who haven't been mentioned per se as POIs, and they knew Lauren didn't make it back to SW. I'm beginning to think she did leave 5N, that doesn't necessarily clear anyone there especially DB because someone could have followed her as she left, but I think there was at least one more phone call from JRs, and then that phone call led to other texts, and people, i.e. roommates, JW, were looking for her after she left and someone. either random or not, did find her and brought her to X location. If we could just imagine that she could have left, leaving her at large, then the possibilities go way up for others' involvement, including of course but not limiting the 5N POIs. And, being the ratf$#@&s that the AEPIs are, if any of them were involved, they won't tell on each other, that's why even if JR knows who did it besides himself or the other 5N pois, he won't give them up. They all have counter-blackmails on each other. The kind of things these disreputes do, such as dealing and drugging (rufies), and who knows what else, if one goes down they all go down and they know it....

The one thought I have is that maybe if JR or DB hit on her, she somehow pulled herself together and left ... and then all hell broke out. She could have fallen face first again ... or even hid somewhere and then passed out.

I'm not convinced she could have left on her own accord. But you do raise some interesting possibilities. If she somehow left, in a very diminished capacity, she would have been prey for whomever. One remote possibility is that the phone calls were because she did flea, and JR freaked, knowing her condition.

Than again, I feel that JR would have been more concerned about himself than her. Just saying, based on the character we've seen thus far.
 

Ixchel13

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It's suspicious when a POI won't take an LE-administered polygraph, for obvious reasons. And I know they can be manipulated, whether LE- or privately administered. But apart from that, IDK enough about them. I so don't want to instigate another great debate, only say that from what I learned from the OCCK case, the results can be interpreted in various ways.

In that case (as I've probably shared), the private polygrapher didn't think the suspect passed, yet LE let the results slide, it recently turned out. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that (since physical evidence disappeared in the interim). So I don't think Mrs. W. can be 100 percent sure, regardless. But not taking the LE polygraph raises suspicions, no doubt.

If I was in the Ws' shoes, I think I'd want to do everything possible to quell all suspicions if I thought my son was totally innocent. But as you point out, she wasn't 100 percent sure.

IDK...this poly sounds like the parents paid someone to see if their son could pass a polygraph and does not in any way shape or form conclude his innocence or even possible innocence.
 

Ixchel13

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[/B]
If there was such a video we wouldn't be here 2 years and 3 months later... and no closer to finding Lauren.

Lorelilly, LE has never once said they have shared all of what they have with the general public, and we're still here 2 yrs and 3 mos later.
 
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