IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

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If you consider everything in context of "Oh my God, they are going to think I did this" or "Oh my God, they think I did this" then the next thought or advice they will get is to get an attorney. And once they had attorneys they are acting exactly like you'd expect any POI to do in most ways. In the case of JR, he's had a private poly that they claim to have turned over to LE. He also met with the parents. Those aren't even things you'd expect to happen if the attorneys had concerns about their client.

It's things like that that make this case so hard to understand from the outside looking in. And who among the PsOI returned to Bloomington? Returning to Bloomington under a cloud of suspicion is also hard to understand (not likely to do if guilty, and I wouldn't think an attorney would advise it knowing a client will be watched and suspected).

As said above, there's nothing to be gained by 'trying to clear their names', unless there is some indisputable piece of evidence the public doesn't know about, because it'll just be words that are dissected and turned inside out and made to fit whatever preconceived notions people already have about the case. Not much to gain with that when they can simply let things fade into the background. This case is fading from the public view right now. The stories have dried up. The lawsuit has been tossed out. LE is not talking. Media is moving on. If any PsOI were to speak they'd put it back into the spotlight. That simply is not going to happen because I'm sure they have been advised not to do that and to let the spotlight be turned off and let the case be forgotten by the public. And that is what is happening. The longer they go without an arrest the better the chance the public that still remembers will start seeing that as 'evidence' (in their mind) of the PsOI's 'innocence'. While the spotlight was on them I'm sure there was a lot of pressure, but as the spotlight has dimmed, the pressure releases. The attorneys know that is how this works. Stay quiet, stay out of the media, let the attorneys handle the parents, media, public, LE, and PI's.... I'm certain that would be the advice their attorneys gave them. And doing that is not evidence of guilt... It's doing what your attorney says and why you are paying them $$$$.

I'd like to say obviously somebody has to be guilty but I'm not even sure we know for a fact something didn't happen like with the kid at Purdue a few years ago that they found in a power room who had wandered in drunk and electrocuted himself. Especially with the construction that was going on at the time.

I still consider 5N or JW the most likely to be involved... JW statistically and due to circumstances, and 5N due to timing and circumstances. But I haven't seen one piece of "AHA!" evidence pointing in either direction that has been released to the public.
 
akh said:
If you consider everything in context of "Oh my God, they are going to think I did this" or "Oh my God, they think I did this" then the next thought or advice they will get is to get an attorney. And once they had attorneys they are acting exactly like you'd expect any POI to do in most ways. In the case of JR, he's had a private poly that they claim to have turned over to LE. He also met with the parents. Those aren't even things you'd expect to happen if the attorneys had concerns about their client.

It's things like that that make this case so hard to understand from the outside looking in. And who among the PsOI returned to Bloomington? Returning to Bloomington under a cloud of suspicion is also hard to understand (not likely to do if guilty, and I wouldn't think an attorney would advise it knowing a client will be watched and suspected).

As said above, there's nothing to be gained by 'trying to clear their names', unless there is some indisputable piece of evidence the public doesn't know about, because it'll just be words that are dissected and turned inside out and made to fit whatever preconceived notions people already have about the case. Not much to gain with that when they can simply let things fade into the background. This case is fading from the public view right now. The stories have dried up. The lawsuit has been tossed out. LE is not talking. Media is moving on. If any PsOI were to speak they'd put it back into the spotlight. That simply is not going to happen because I'm sure they have been advised not to do that and to let the spotlight be turned off and let the case be forgotten by the public. And that is what is happening. The longer they go without an arrest the better the chance the public that still remembers will start seeing that as 'evidence' (in their mind) of the PsOI's 'innocence'. While the spotlight was on them I'm sure there was a lot of pressure, but as the spotlight has dimmed, the pressure releases. The attorneys know that is how this works. Stay quiet, stay out of the media, let the attorneys handle the parents, media, public, LE, and PI's.... I'm certain that would be the advice their attorneys gave them. And doing that is not evidence of guilt... It's doing what your attorney says and why you are paying them $$$$.

I'd like to say obviously somebody has to be guilty but I'm not even sure we know for a fact something didn't happen like with the kid at Purdue a few years ago that they found in a power room who had wandered in drunk and electrocuted himself. Especially with the construction that was going on at the time.

I still consider 5N or JW the most likely to be involved... JW statistically and due to circumstances, and 5N due to timing and circumstances. But I haven't seen one piece of "AHA!" evidence pointing in either direction that has been released to the public.
Click to expand...

I guess it is just personal biases and what not, but I feel differently. If I put myself in the position of one of the PsOI, I wouldn't feel as though my reputation and integrity have been cleared at this point in time. Yes you are correct that the spotlight is diminishing more and more as time goes on.

If I am innocent of any wrong doing and have absolutely no information that hasn't been reported, I would want to my vindication. A simple google search of my name would bring up some pretty shady stories that could easily lead potential employers or business relations to question my character. Who wants to live with that hanging over their head.

If I am guilty or holding on to secrets that could come out at any given time, I would be quite happy with the spotlight diminishing. If I am innocent I would be doing anything and everything to have my name completely cleared of any wrong doing. Especially now that the civil suit has gone away, I would want this thing over. In fact I think I would set up a private meeting with the Spierers sans lawyers and do my best to convince them I have told everything I know and let them know I will do whatever I can to help. That is just what innocent people do. IMO

Again, maybe this is just me and everyone doesn't have that same mindset, but I would think at least ONE of the PsOI would share that mindset. IMO
 
If I was legally representing any of them I wouldn't let them "clear their name" and risk further implication by circumstantial evidence being uncovered. Legally, the smartest thing to do, guilty or not is to shut up, stay off social media, out of the press, and away from other lawyers. imo
 
I read above that the lawsuit was thrown out. I would like to point out that the Spierers have appealed that decision and the new decision is pending. This isn't over yet, no matter how much the POI's, the media, or anyone else might want it to be.
 
akh said:
I'd like to say obviously somebody has to be guilty but I'm not even sure we know for a fact something didn't happen like with the kid at Purdue a few years ago that they found in a power room who had wandered in drunk and electrocuted himself. Especially with the construction that was going on at the time.
Click to expand...

I think if something like that happened, she would have been found and it would have been shortly after she disappeared. JMO
 
Roadrunner6122 said:
I read above that the lawsuit was thrown out. I would like to point out that the Spierers have appealed that decision and the new decision is pending. This isn't over yet, no matter how much the POI's, the media, or anyone else might want it to be.
Click to expand...

Most appeals are denied. Obviously, some appeals do work though. But appeals aren't an easy process to win. Judges work hard not to leave an appealable issue on the table.
 
Roadrunner6122 said:
I think if something like that happened, she would have been found and it would have been shortly after she disappeared. JMO
Click to expand...

I tend to agree, but the longer this drags on the more I wonder if all the construction in the area could've led to this type of scenario being overlooked and ongoing construction playing a role before anyone was even looking that direction. Likely? I doubt it... But would it even have been possible or are authorities comfortable that nothing of the sort could've happened before eyes were focused that way? It would be nice to hear an official statement on this.
 
I have a question for the group about the white truck: when I first saw the famous profile of the white truck, I thought it had one of those black tarp covers over the bed, that was reflecting light, and whatever was in the back was peaking out from under it. But now when I look again, I think it might be that the back of the pickup doesn't have a cover or a liner (it's just white), and whatever's in the back has a blanket or something over it. It's like a figure/ground illusion: I can see it both ways. So does anybody else see it as having a tarp over most of the bed? I still tend to see it that way.
 
Vidocq said:
I have a question for the group about the white truck: when I first saw the famous profile of the white truck, I thought it had one of those black tarp covers over the bed, that was reflecting light, and whatever was in the back was peaking out from under it. But now when I look again, I think it might be that the back of the pickup doesn't have a cover or a liner (it's just white), Andy whatever's in the back has a blanket or something over it. It's like a figure/ground illusion: I can see it both ways. So does anybody else see it as having a tarp over most of the bed? I still tend to see it that way.
Click to expand...

My opinion? Those images have been altered.i think that figure in the bed of the truck is Lauren but it may have been superimposed into the image. I think the original image of Lauren was her sitting on the sidewalk/street somewhere. One of the white truck images has what appears to be a blurred out spot next to the curb.
Why? I am not sure, but maybe LE was sending a message to someone, trying to get someone to talk.
I have said it many times throughout these threads. I think the white truck is very relevant to this case. JMO
 
Roadrunner6122 said:
I think if something like that happened, she would have been found and it would have been shortly after she disappeared. JMO
Click to expand...

Wade Steffey wasn't found for months, so even in that scenario, it can take a while to find a body.

IMHO, she had to have gone somewhere in a vehicle, either alive or dead. I think that the dogs and searchers would have found her, even in a construction site, no later than when all buildings that were vacant during the summer were in use again.

However, I have wondered whether all nearby cellars with outside entrances were checked. I could imagine a cellar door being left open, someone falling in, striking her head on concrete, and then the cellar door being closed again without anyone really looking at the bottom of the stairs or deeper in the cellar.
 
Here is what i find curious about the white truck:

A week later, BPD stopped all traffic that went through the area, which (as I recall) was about 100 vehicles. They asked if the drivers had seen anything. One can only wonder if BPD kept records of these vehicles and their drivers and if any of them are unnamed PsOI.

So, if about 100 vehicles go through that area on a weeknight, why was the white truck the only one described to the public? If there was a problem with the time stamp on the video, so that it appeared to go around the block when it did not really do so, would not that problem apply to all vehicles that traveled the same route?
 
Ros said:
Here is what i find curious about the white truck:

A week later, BPD stopped all traffic that went through the area, which (as I recall) was about 100 vehicles. They asked if the drivers had seen anything. One can only wonder if BPD kept records of these vehicles and their drivers and if any of them are unnamed PsOI.

So, if about 100 vehicles go through that area on a weeknight, why was the white truck the only one described to the public? If there was a problem with the time stamp on the video, so that it appeared to go around the block when it did not really do so, would not that problem apply to all vehicles that traveled the same route?
Click to expand...

Yeah, just guessing, but I always just assumed (regardless of what BPD has said) that it appeared to go around block twice because it actually did go around the block twice. BPD was playing stupid IMO.
If I had to guess right now, I would guess that LS left the area in that truck. But not in the truck bed as it appeared in the image, but rather in the backseat. JMO
 
Grew up in bloomington. Middle school, HS and the ex wife graduated from I.U.
Working in the south since 2007 or so keeps me away from family and friends but I always stop in bloomington and look around my old stomping grounds for a bit before heading a bit farther north where the folks retired to.
I will be in town sunday, 21st and plan to search a bit more. One particular spot in right on hwy 37, south near the lake. It was a hill with an off road trail on it.
I always remembered as a highschooler how cool it would be to go up it and see where it leads. Now I have a purpose built off road vehicle and plan to hit quite a few areas sunday that I couldnt have gone to prior.
 
Vidocq said:
I have a question for the group about the white truck: when I first saw the famous profile of the white truck, I thought it had one of those black tarp covers over the bed, that was reflecting light, and whatever was in the back was peaking out from under it. But now when I look again, I think it might be that the back of the pickup doesn't have a cover or a liner (it's just white), and whatever's in the back has a blanket or something over it. It's like a figure/ground illusion: I can see it both ways. So does anybody else see it as having a tarp over most of the bed? I still tend to see it that way.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean about the illusion, but I don't think there's anything there other than an open truck bed. JMO
 
CoolJ said:
My opinion? Those images have been altered.i think that figure in the bed of the truck is Lauren but it may have been superimposed into the image. I think the original image of Lauren was her sitting on the sidewalk/street somewhere. One of the white truck images has what appears to be a blurred out spot next to the curb.
Why? I am not sure, but maybe LE was sending a message to someone, trying to get someone to talk.
I have said it many times throughout these threads. I think the white truck is very relevant to this case. JMO
Click to expand...

you could be right about the blur you are talking about. Bringing up the Mickey Shunick case again, LE did in fact blur Mickey out of the image of yes, another white truck!
In this case there were 2 white trucks, and again, one seemed to circle the block, it was looking back, a very similar situation.
People on this board had excellent abilities in graphic/photo shopping this type of thing, and found reflections, minute evidence of her lighted bike spokes, etc. People here on WS were also speculating that Mickey was in the pic and she was!
From the get-go,LA LE had Mickey being either hit or in the process of being abducted, and they had the right truck from the get-go as well. IIRC, one of the trucks was cleared relatively soon but people weren't sure which one, etc.
The point is, I guess, is that LE will do stuff like blur a victim out of the pic as CoolJ is suggesting, and BTW, Vidocq, other people at the beginning of these threads have suggested the very same thing and saw the same blur on the sidewalk as you did.
We've seen it over and over, LE playing an entirely different strategy and not letting us in on it. In Mickey's case, the perp went into panic mode and drove the truck willy nilly to another state, set it on fire, and then proceeded to incriminate himself in various ways.
If BSL, Mickey's perp, had millions of dollars at his disposal, and a team of people to help him set up a scenario in which his truck WAS stolen, and then had a team of lawyers to shield him from being questioned, who knows? The opposite was true, he didn't have the $$$, and he had ticked off alot of people, and the entire town was pitching in to find and incriminate him, with an underground grass roots system (Cajun Net) who even thought they knew who it was! In Lauren's case, we had the entire town looking for Lauren, not the perp. In Mickey's case, the LA LE was very adamant that the perp was out there somewhere, in Lauren's case, there was no warnings, not even one warning, to beware of a killer in our midst.
I realize that LE messes up, but our police here are not so callous as to pretend a vicious perp is not out there. They have enough info, IMO, that determines that in Lauren's case, the public didn't have to worry about the same perp working that area.
JMO
 
Ixchel13 said:
...snipped...
I realize that LE messes up, but our police here are not so callous as to pretend a vicious perp is not out there. They have enough info, IMO, that determines that in Lauren's case, the public didn't have to worry about the same perp working that area.
JMO
Click to expand...
What was BPD's initial response when the remains of Ellen M. were found? A vicious perp was out there that time. However, I think that they arrested him within a fairly short time.
http://www.wbiw.com/local/archive/2012/09/man-who-murdered-bloomington-w.php
 
CoolJ said:
Yeah, just guessing, but I always just assumed (regardless of what BPD has said) that it appeared to go around block twice because it actually did go around the block twice. BPD was playing stupid IMO.
If I had to guess right now, I would guess that LS left the area in that truck. But not in the truck bed as it appeared in the image, but rather in the backseat. JMO
Click to expand...
And if that was the case, then BPD would be quietly building a case against the driver of the white truck (who is the only person who has been publicly "cleared") while the rest of us go in JR-CR-MB-JW circles.

The driver of the white truck apparently came forward as soon as photos of his (or for all we know, her) truck were published. I would assume that BPD would have searched the truck, perhaps using dogs and various other forensic techniques to determine if LS had been there. And if they had found that evidence, what would they then do? Maybe there was no forensic evidence found, or none that would stand up in court. And perhaps the truck had been recently thoroughly cleaned. Would they still find anything?
 
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