IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

akh

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I do not think it is the same thing at all. I get that many here have suspected the kids have had something to do with her murder since 2011 but trying to blame them - and comparing them to actual murderers who brutally beat a kid with baseball bats - years later when it seems increasingly likely that Lauren was killed by DM, seems like trying to make yourself feel better at the expense of others.

It also bears mentioning that 5N 'did' cooperate to some degree. Much of what is on record wouldn't even exist if they hadn't. JR even had a meeting with the parents (albeit with attorneys present).

The story of their lack of cooperation has more to do with refusing to be questioned multiple times and eventually 'lawyering up', as well as not admitting to a direct role in her disappearance. But if they were truly innocent then what else could they say?
 

Mahouston69

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I don't recall anything about a missing key or roommate unavailable. I don't think that is common knowledge or a normal part of the narrative because I think I'd remember that.

Is there a link to that anywhere?
I'll see if I can find it but I vaguely remember it being related to the surveillance video of her floor

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AbbeyR

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What baffles me the most in this case is that with all the surveillance video, there wasn't a clear description of a vehicle leaving the area (except the infamous white truck). In Hannah's case, didn't they catch several images of DM's Kia leaving town? I wonder what he was driving earlier - people must know this.
 

AbbeyR

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I don't recall anything about a missing key or roommate unavailable. I don't think that is common knowledge or a normal part of the narrative because I think I'd remember that.

Is there a link to that anywhere?

I agree. I think maybe other parts of the story have been mixed in here.
 

Swick

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I believe they arrived at her floor, CR gets into it with ZO in the hallway near the elevator. CR gets hit, and that's why they left. I don't remember anything about them falling in the lobby, I thought they then headed up the alley and she fell once in the alley and once when they were sitting on the steps. Also, her keys were eventually found further up the alley towards 5N. I presume she had them at Smallwood but CR gets his bell rung before they even get to her room.

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AbbeyR

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According to the surveillance video and described by the investigators, Lauren fell out of the elevator into the wall in the lobby. Corey picked her up off the floor and "helped her out of the building", later carrying and dragging her down the alley.
 

Swick

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According to the surveillance video and described by the investigators, Lauren fell out of the elevator into the wall in the lobby. Corey picked her up off the floor and "helped her out of the building", later carrying and dragging her down the alley.
Ah ok, sounds familiar now. Thanks.

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akh

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According to the surveillance video and described by the investigators, Lauren fell out of the elevator into the wall in the lobby. Corey picked her up off the floor and "helped her out of the building", later carrying and dragging her down the alley.

Certainly it's been said that at one point he carried her (on his back) but where has it ever been said he "dragged her"?

I know at least one poster would embellish the narrative with extra-descriptive words like that, but I don't recall 'dragging' as being part of the official narrative.

Of course at this point, it's not always easy to remember what pieces of info came from sources like the PI's, and what things filtered their way into the narrative due speculation or exaggeration.
 

AbbeyR

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Certainly it's been said that at one point he carried her (on his back) but where has it ever been said he "dragged her"?

I know at least one poster would embellish the narrative with extra-descriptive words like that, but I don't recall 'dragging' as being part of the official narrative.

Of course at this point, it's not always easy to remember what pieces of info came from sources like the PI's, and what things filtered their way into the narrative due speculation or exaggeration.

The investigators on the Lohud video who were describing surveillance video said it was a combination of him pulling, dragging and carrying Lauren down the alley. Then they demonstrated how he carried her by hanging her over his shoulders.
 

CoolJ

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The investigators on the Lohud video who were describing surveillance video said it was a combination of him pulling, dragging and carrying Lauren down the alley. Then they demonstrated how he carried her by hanging her over his shoulders.

What do you think is the reason they went to Smallwood?
 

AbbeyR

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What do you think is the reason they went to Smallwood?

My opinion? I think Corey got her really drunk deliberately (the lawsuit docs say he was buying her drinks and 'helping her drink them' when she already couldn't stand) and he wanted to be alone with her. He was probably trying to take her back to her place because it was closest, or to the party they were at earlier. People stopped him at Smallwood because they could see that she was wasted and he was taking advantage of her (these were not JW's good friends, btw), and so he moved on, taking her back to 5N instead, which was more difficult since she couldn't walk by that point. Along the way he was stopped by a random stranger who also saw that Lauren was in bad condition who thought she might need help, but Corey told her he was taking care of her and then literally carried her back to his place. He had a number of opportunities to just drop her off at Smallwood, but didn't.

I don't know... what other reason does a guy have for dragging a semi-conscious girl home at 3 am? they weren't even friends.Happens all the time.
 

akh

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My opinion? I think Corey got her really drunk deliberately (the lawsuit docs say he was buying her drinks and 'helping her drink them' when she already couldn't stand) and he wanted to be alone with her. He was probably trying to take her back to her place because it was closest, or to the party they were at earlier. People stopped him at Smallwood because they could see that she was wasted and he was taking advantage of her (these were not JW's good friends, btw), and so he moved on, taking her back to 5N instead, which was more difficult since she couldn't walk by that point. Along the way he was stopped by a random stranger who also saw that Lauren was in bad condition who thought she might need help, but Corey told her he was taking care of her and then literally carried her back to his place. He had a number of opportunities to just drop her off at Smallwood, but didn't.

I don't know... what other reason does a guy have for dragging a semi-conscious girl home at 3 am? they weren't even friends.Happens all the time.

The problem with this is, she was already in her apartment building. She didn't have to follow him away if she didn't want to. If the people there were truly looking out for her then she easily had empowerment to say "No, I'm staying here". Meanwhile, if those people were truly looking out for her, and she didn't want to leave the apt bldg, why did they let her leave? Why did they let him 'take' her if that is really the case?

Plus, if she didn't want to be with CR then why was she ever with him in the first place? And didn't they meet prior to this in Indpls (Indy 500)? So it's not like this was a random hookup.
 

AbbeyR

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The problem with this is, she was already in her apartment building. She didn't have to follow him away if she didn't want to. If the people there were truly looking out for her then she easily had empowerment to say "No, I'm staying here". Meanwhile, if those people were truly looking out for her, and she didn't want to leave the apt bldg, why did they let her leave? Why did they let him 'take' her if that is really the case?

Plus, if she didn't want to be with CR then why was she ever with him in the first place? And didn't they meet prior to this in Indpls (Indy 500)? So it's not like this was a random hookup.

I'm sure you and I have had this conversation before, akh :) but IMO, it doesn't make sense to say she "followed him" when she was too messed up to walk herself. He carried her out of the building. Likewise, no one reports her talking at all, and some people who saw her suggested she was too messed up to talk.

So why did the guys at Smallwood 'let him take her'? I don't know. Why did the witness who cared enough to try to stop them on the street let them go too? Maybe that was all they were willing to do to intervene. Maybe they didn't know what to do, since Corey was taking charge of her saying everything was fine. Maybe they were drunk too. Maybe they didn't care very much. Probably some combination of the above and never anticipating things would end up so tragically.

And yes, Lauren had met him, but they were not friends. This was reiterated many times by her friends.
 

akh

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And therein lies a problem... We're trying to interpret an event (or events even) that we've not seen at all and basing it on other people's interpretations of these events. Even people with only indirect or partial connections themselves sometimes. Then mix in rumor, innuendo, hearsay, flawed reporting, bad memories, etc..

And then mixing and matching all of that in many cases.
 

Henry2326

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And therein lies a problem... We're trying to interpret an event (or events even) that we've not seen at all and basing it on other people's interpretations of these events. Even people with only indirect or partial connections themselves sometimes. Then mix in rumor, innuendo, hearsay, flawed reporting, bad memories, etc..

And then mixing and matching all of that in many cases.
I think you very well articulated why there are so many suspects. Bless sweet girl.....

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Ixchel13

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I do not think it is the same thing at all. I get that many here have suspected the kids have had something to do with her murder since 2011 but trying to blame them - and comparing them to actual murderers who brutally beat a kid with baseball bats - years later when it seems increasingly likely that Lauren was killed by DM, seems like trying to make yourself feel better at the expense of others.

why would I want to make myself feel good at the POIs expense?

Not to mention, the use of the word "kids" to describe young adults engaging in what turns out to be murderous behavior is exactly what I am talking about.






It is actually similar, i wasn't even comparing the two but giving an exact example, In the context of what I was saying, it is true, not to compare each violent occurrence as equal but also not to attach the caveat in every case that these offenders are young therefore we can't spoil their lives ahead with the scandal of causing the death of a friend/acquaintance, a fatal case of affluenza.
in this particular case, which Paul, you seem to be just studying, there is really little room to doubt that Lauren was returning to her apartment. She was attacked and prevented from entering her apartment and proceeded to make a hasty, sloppy, stumbling, falling, exit from her building. Had she stayed, IMO, she would have had a sloppy passing out like her escort did in his apt later, and awakened with a terrible hangover.
But no, she was prevented from staying.
If that in itself were a crime, IMO there is no doubt charges would definitely be filed.
but IMO they are lying about their behavior, at the very least
 

Ixchel13

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Whenever this forum pops up in New Posts, I come to check it out. I followed it closely the first year plus.

As I recall, CR and Lauren did make it to the floor of her apartment. However, she didn't have her key and her roommate was not in.

I don't ever remember anyone saying her roommates were not in. Only that one was out of town
 

Ixchel13

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i am almost sure that wasn't stated. we have had way too many discussions about why she left someone would have linked that long ago.
 

Mahouston69

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https://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/the-lauren-spierer-mystery-unraveled/
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Ixchel13

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hi Ma, yes, it says she never entered but never tells us why or who was or wasn't in the apt. HT was at a party in the building. HT sticks up for JR but never tells us why. LE most certainly knows where she was. IMO she was right there.
Sure, none of it matters if they didn't harm or hide Lauren, right? When it comes to her friends, to me it's about putting Lauren in harm's way, and I feel they are definitely guilty of that. No matter what, they did that. And won't admit that.
More and more, now, I think DM did it. But the other question is, does he have one or two accomplices?
again, Yeahbab's map will show that 10th street and Yogi's, one of the corners of his killing triangle, takes you
right out of town on 10th, heading out towards unionville, lake lemon and then on up to JMW'S,
 
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