IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

[akh]

And therein lies a problem... We're trying to interpret an event (or events even) that we've not seen at all and basing it on other people's interpretations of these events. Even people with only indirect or partial connections themselves sometimes. Then mix in rumor, innuendo, hearsay, flawed reporting, bad memories, etc..

And then mixing and matching all of that in many cases.

 

[Henry2326]

And therein lies a problem... We're trying to interpret an event (or events even) that we've not seen at all and basing it on other people's interpretations of these events. Even people with only indirect or partial connections themselves sometimes. Then mix in rumor, innuendo, hearsay, flawed reporting, bad memories, etc..

And then mixing and matching all of that in many cases.

I think you very well articulated why there are so many suspects. Bless sweet girl.....

Sent from my VK815 using Tapatalk

 

[Ixchel13]

I do not think it is the same thing at all. I get that many here have suspected the kids have had something to do with her murder since 2011 but trying to blame them - and comparing them to actual murderers who brutally beat a kid with baseball bats - years later when it seems increasingly likely that Lauren was killed by DM, seems like trying to make yourself feel better at the expense of others.

why would I want to make myself feel good at the POIs expense?

Not to mention, the use of the word "kids" to describe young adults engaging in what turns out to be murderous behavior is exactly what I am talking about.






It is actually similar, i wasn't even comparing the two but giving an exact example, In the context of what I was saying, it is true, not to compare each violent occurrence as equal but also not to attach the caveat in every case that these offenders are young therefore we can't spoil their lives ahead with the scandal of causing the death of a friend/acquaintance, a fatal case of affluenza.
in this particular case, which Paul, you seem to be just studying, there is really little room to doubt that Lauren was returning to her apartment. She was attacked and prevented from entering her apartment and proceeded to make a hasty, sloppy, stumbling, falling, exit from her building. Had she stayed, IMO, she would have had a sloppy passing out like her escort did in his apt later, and awakened with a terrible hangover.
But no, she was prevented from staying.
If that in itself were a crime, IMO there is no doubt charges would definitely be filed.
but IMO they are lying about their behavior, at the very least

 

[Ixchel13]

Whenever this forum pops up in New Posts, I come to check it out. I followed it closely the first year plus.

As I recall, CR and Lauren did make it to the floor of her apartment. However, she didn't have her key and her roommate was not in.

I don't ever remember anyone saying her roommates were not in. Only that one was out of town

 

[Ixchel13]

i am almost sure that wasn't stated. we have had way too many discussions about why she left someone would have linked that long ago.

 

[Mahouston69]

https://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/the-lauren-spierer-mystery-unraveled/

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

 

[Ixchel13]

hi Ma, yes, it says she never entered but never tells us why or who was or wasn't in the apt. HT was at a party in the building. HT sticks up for JR but never tells us why. LE most certainly knows where she was. IMO she was right there.
Sure, none of it matters if they didn't harm or hide Lauren, right? When it comes to her friends, to me it's about putting Lauren in harm's way, and I feel they are definitely guilty of that. No matter what, they did that. And won't admit that.
More and more, now, I think DM did it. But the other question is, does he have one or two accomplices?
again, Yeahbab's map will show that 10th street and Yogi's, one of the corners of his killing triangle, takes you
right out of town on 10th, heading out towards unionville, lake lemon and then on up to JMW'S,

 

[Ixchel13]

QUOTE=AbbeyR;13758652]My opinion? I think Corey got her really drunk deliberately (the lawsuit docs say he was buying her drinks and 'helping her drink them' when she already couldn't stand) and he wanted to be alone with her. He was probably trying to take her back to her place because it was closest, or to the party they were at earlier. People stopped him at Smallwood because they could see that she was wasted and he was taking advantage of her (these were not JW's good friends, btw), and so he moved on, taking her back to 5N instead, which was more difficult since she couldn't walk by that point. Along the way he was stopped by a random stranger who also saw that Lauren was in bad condition who thought she might need help, but Corey told her he was taking care of her and then literally carried her back to his place. He had a number of opportunities to just drop her off at Smallwood, but didn't.

I don't know... what other reason does a guy have for dragging a semi-conscious girl home at 3 am? they weren't even friends.Happens all the time.[/QUOTE]

CR most likely did have seducing Lauren on his mind. but after getting attacked, I feel he wanted to get home, I feel like he realized, as much as anyone can in his condition, that part was done. The dynamics changed into a
survival mode, of getting away. Everyone involved was intoxicated, not just a little, these people were all extremely high and drunk. Things started escalating, and I believe a loose knit group started chasing Lauren and CR. Afterall, they tried to get in 10th and College on the way to CRs. No one says why, but they may have been trying to avoid CRs house because they knew people were headed that way.
So yes, Lauren stumbled, was carried, and half dragged out of the building, but the PIs who investigated and saw the video of Lauren and CR going up the alley said she was very much alive and definitely not comatose in the alley. So she was not silent or comatose or unable to move until a witness almost an hour later saw her hit her head.
There is a big, big problem with this investigation. (understatement!) The witness who saw Lauren hit her head was not a "random stranger", Abbey.This bar manager at Yogis knew DM, she was the bar manager of Yogis! How is it that she happened to be the only eye witness? I feel like this woman possibly told LE about DM.
about DM all the way back then. And, it is quite possible, that she told LE that she saw DM carry Lauren away, we
know they aren't telling us a fraction of what they know. It is quite possible that this woman was leaving 10th and C After either buying or selling drugs and she saw Lauren falling, hitting her head and being picked up and carried off.

 

[Ixchel13]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zgEXA_yx1D10.kUbr8fwCZm8M&usp=sharing
that is the map.http://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zgEXA_YX1D10.kUbr8fwCZM8M&usp=sharing

sorry only one of these works. but when you do get the map, OMG, I forgot how intricate it is. You can pull up his kill zone by using the google map, duh, I'm probably the dumbest person tech wise on this site! But again, this map blows me away. the Grant street triangle , everything. Also remember we expanded the boundaries to include other suspects yes we were working on it and, Yeahbabs made this fascinating, incredible map.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zgEXA_yx1D10.kUbr8fwCZm8M&usp=sharing

ok everyone, I am at a loss. I want to post this map as a
the actual map and not just the link. Now that we have the DM dimension to both cases, the map really becomes relevant. the killing areas are there on the map. i think this happened before when i tried to repost the map only Yeahbabs could do it! if she or someone else could do it, TIA so much!

 

[Vail]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zgEXA_yx1D10.kUbr8fwCZm8M&usp=sharing

ok everyone, I am at a loss. I want to post this map as a
the actual map and not just the link. Now that we have the DM dimension to both cases, the map really becomes relevant. the killing areas are there on the map. i think this happened before when i tried to repost the map only Yeahbabs could do it! if she or someone else could do it, TIA so much!

As far as I know, we don't have a map embed bbcode here but here is an image version:

Our forum admin can add a custom bbcode to allow us to embed maps https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235625

 

[Ixchel13]

Our forum admin can add a custom bbcode to allow us to embed maps https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235625[/QUOTE]

thanks so much Vail! I don't think Yeahbabs has added the other victim of DM, iirc she lived in the same area as JW, Hannah W. and Yogis but will double check. His stalking ground does match Lauren's area
and timeline and IMO modus. both Hannah and Lauren had loud altercations out in/in front of bars
that he likely noticed, and he often hung around them by default by being in the same bars on a regular basis. IOW, he had to have seen Lauren and Hannah at both Kilroys and Yogis, JW lived right around the corner from Yogis as did Hannah..
Is it just a weird coincidence that the only eyewitness to Lauren hitting her head and being carried away was the bar manager at Yogis?
That's why this map is dynamite. Within it, places and times and people, is the answer to Lauren's case.
It only becomes clear after we add Hannah's info in. MOO and speculation

Just noticed that if you blow the bloomington part of the map up looking south you will notice 2 triangles Smallwood, Kilroys and 10th and C; and then JW's house, Hannah's house and Yogis. and they correspond to one another.

Sorry to keep adding! But you can see that 10th street is at the top of both triangles, and DM most likely went straight out 10th street with Hannah and right out 45 to Lake Lemon and Plum Creek rd. and also the way to JMW's.

The other weird triangle on the map is DM's house, the bar in terre haute, and bloomington. and the fact that we sort of connected the armed guy on the roof with a scope with the snitch in jail and DM. DM had binoculars in car; RR the armed guy had a scope. From his perch 4 stories up facing Kilroys front door, he had a perfect view of just about every point on our map. and as we discussed 3- 2 years ago, if he walked to the other side of the garage, he could see the Yogis triangle! terre haute is on the map if it's in entirety.

 

[watcher9]

I'm not up on this case but just read this article and wanted to link it to the thread.
It's heartbreaking not knowing.
Prayers that her mom will find answers soon.

Lauren Spierer‘s mother has again taken to social media to mourn the ongoing mystery surrounding the intelligent, vivacious 20-year-old Indiana University student who went missing in 2011, with a message that says “hoping 2018 is the year for truth.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/missing-indiana-students-mom-pens-heartbreaking-post/ar-BBHSpTX

 

[LongTallTexan]

I am not local...but I drove through Bloomington yesterday and past all the landmarks with my family, and we could only think about her family and what they must be going through all these years....how do you go on. The drive past smallwood, kilroys and 5N was haunting as I've read and seen pictures to the extent that I felt like I had been there many times. I relived the evening as we drove around, each stop and the spotty info we have.....so difficult to imagine anyone disappearing from that area, there's so much there (I know there's been a lot of development), but it was a heavily lived area even at the time. It breaks my heart that there are no answers....but I also think it's long overdue that police release some more information...at minimum it gets her name out there and brings attention to her case.

I have followed this case since the beginning, I read several but only truly followed this one....if I have missed a post it's only been a handful. I've read the theories and speculation and thrown some my own out there, yet there is still so much we don't know.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Her so-called "friends" know what happened. Because of their convenient "amnesia", gaps, inconsistencies, conflicting statements, misdirection, combined with Lauren's very significant injuries and video recorded condition even before those head injuries, it is obvious that they know. And that is from the public information... LE undoubtedly has more, hopefully a lot more. But still not enough to prosecute... You can know someone is full of *****, lying, obstructing, but proving otherwise takes a massive effort. I think the FBI unfortunately has made this low priority because they likely see it as a cover up for an accidental death, which may or may not have involved rape. The worst thing about this is that those "friends" go about their lives as if this never happened.

 

[Mahouston69]

More like her so called boyfriend knows what happened.
1. No/ unverified alibi
2. Left town immediately without searching
3. Therapy, disparaging remarks about family

I can never be convinced he wasn't called to 'come get her' and picked her up at the corner. I truly believe nobody let her walk home in her condition. I do know if he did, we will never know what transpired between them, a physical fight, or she died from her drinking/ drugs/ disease/ falling/

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

 

[VeryVeritas]

The investigators on the Lohud video who were describing surveillance video said it was a combination of him pulling, dragging and carrying Lauren down the alley. Then they demonstrated how he carried her by hanging her over his shoulders.

And of course that didn't last long because she was also subsequently recorded falling face down, arms limp, at the end of the alley at the beginning of the parking area. To the left of this fall by many feet was found some (but not all, curiously missing was her ID and residential Keycard) of her personal items including her wallet. Minutes later, those items were picked up by someone living immediately in that vicinity, who was coming out of the parking lot and put on a ledge so as to be more easily seen. That location was directly in alignment with 5N and only the parking lot (with cars and a dumpster) was in between. The subsequent accounts by her "friends" is riddled with inconsistency of her condition, and contradicting the facts. The surveillance video has her crashing down face first, earlier a witness sees her fall over slamming her head into the concrete, with a sound so audible it was heard from several feet away. It is unknown if CR managed to get Lauren across that parking lot alone, or if she even made it across alive.The chain of friends, subsquent timeline: CR = Convenient Amnesia, Then CR's roommate MB = Conflicts her known and video recorded condition dramatically, making statements that CR was the one who was messed up and Lauren helped CR home, and even suggesting she wanted to party, then saying she left for JR's, while JR said he was called to come get her. Then supposedly at JR's JR = Notes massively serious (possibly fatal) injuries, inability for Lauren to make her own calls, mistaking an electronic device for a phone, but then a short while later JR says she is ok to leave on her own, alone, barefoot and with her ID and Keycard. JR says she took a path home (which he conveniently could see her leaving from his window), but was not the path she came on or the one usually traveled. And so supposedly in the 2 blocks between where JR said he last saw her and her apartment, which passes by a restaurant that usually has LE. We are supposed to believe she just vanished, was abducted by aliens or some predator was just in the right place at the right time in that microscopic time window and no one saw anything, no cameras captured anything. To me, all of these statements have appear to have been orchestrated lies. There are many many problems with the sequence of events. Some of them: Problem 1, I do not believe CR had amnesia. Problem 2, MB clearly was trying to take the heat off of CR and pass the buck to JR and Lauren (who was clearly unconscious moments before). Problem 3 JR admits seeing Lauren's very serious injuries but fails to do the right thing and get her medical attention. Problem 4, JR describes Lauren's very severely impaired condition on top of the injuries and STILL does not seek medical attention. Problem 5, phone calls made from JR's. 1 is to DR who admittedly passed out from consuming drugs earlier with Lauren and doesn't answer. The 2nd call is still unknown (LE has not made it public). Problem 6, JR supposedly lets her leave, alone, claiming she is suddenly sufficiently recovered (This does not make any sense) Problem 7, JR was not alone. Problem 8, JR's house guest from Michigan just happened to leave sometime in those early morning hours and made a tweet. Problem 9, Lauren just happens to lose all of her personal effects except the ones that would back up the story that she was headed back to her apartment (keycard and ID). Because if she were missing those items, she would need assistance. Just how does someone who is unconscious carefully select those 2 items? Alternate theories are fine... but really with such obviously sleight of hand going on here, this tree thoroughly needs to be explored. It does not take this many years unless its simply not a priority. We can not rule out that Lauren was raped and murdered by her "friends" and for that reason this case should be a priority.

 

[VeryVeritas]

She could not stand on her own in the elevator, that's in the video.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

[video=youtube;w2jLjipnD0s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2jLjipnD0s[/video]

 

[Ibiz]

I think she was a victim of Danial Messel.

 

[Ixchel13]

Ma Houston,totally agree that JW was involved! Again, the idea that a real killer was stalking these people has been rolling around my head for over a year.

When Hannah was having an altercation with her friends out in front of Kilroys, DM was somewhere in the background, listening, deciding. He was hearing the whole story of where they had been, where they were going, etc. Hannah's friends wanted her to get into a cab and she didn't want to. She even pleaded with a guy she was with to go with her because she didn't want to be alone. Her friend told her she was too intoxicated to keep up with them and had to go, loudly giving her address to the cabdriver.


At the beginning of Lauren's disappearance, before they literally shut down Kilroys, scattered the employees and completely remodelling it and keeping it closed all summer, even removed the beach area, the employees were talking. One said they overheard Lauren telling someone she had taken several drugs. Lauren was supposedly talking and arguing with a man she didn't know.
When we think about it, these bad people, the stalkers, rapists and killers, are probably more in tune to the likelihood of drama and mishaps and even when these
mishaps are most likely to happen according to the schedules and habits of these young people.
I had to pick someone up from work at around 1 am last year, across from Kilroys
on Kirkwood. While waiting for 20 min, I saw one girl, upset, running out by herself and down the street. I saw several girls leave by themselves and walk towards a dark
alley. you just want to yell out to them, "Be careful!"
What I'm saying is, JR could have made the call to JW, and Lauren was snatched
right before he got there. I mean, we've figured out that something weird has happened. If JR and JW were truly plotting for him to get a hold of Lauren, then she turns up missing but they didn't do it, how would they convince LE of that?
If JR held Lauren until he could release her to her mad boyfriend instead of helping her home as she requested, and then she was abducted before JW could take possession of her, then they are smack in the middle of a murder whether they did it or not, IMO. that could be why they won't tell the truth.