In my right hand is the blue pill, in my left the red pill

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by voynich, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    Welcome, to the real world.

    I'm a slow learner.


    There was an episode in the original ST where a ghostly spirit was responsible as JTR & other famous serial killers.

    Which brings me to...

    http://vincentbridges.com/2006/03/29/innocent-murder-the-real-story-of-jonbenets-death/

    Listen carefully!

    Vincent Bridges states, and I will color what is important

    If we make that assumption, we must go looking for traces of the Intruder. Someone entered the Ramsey home, without a trace of forced entry, wrote a ransom note on paper found there, abducted JonBenet from her room, took her to the basement to an obscure corner where she was sexually assaulted, killed and then cleaned, dressed and wrapped in a blanket. The Intruder then left, leaving the ligature in place around her neck, while taking with him the leftover cord and duct tape. But he does not take a weapon possibly used in the assault, the flashlight.

    Now, this is a truly unusual signature for an intruder sexual assault kidnapping. In fact, it is unique. Intruder assaults and kidnappings do happen, although their frequency is so low as to make them the rarest of all molestations and assaults on children. We can search the annals of such cases going back to the 19th century without finding anything remotely resembling the Ramsey case.

    Intruders, particularly strangers, do not make unforced entries.
    At the very least, this suggests an intruder who had some access to the house. Kidnappers do not linger to write long ransom notes, and sexual predators do not assault their prey in the house where the abduction takes place; screams could bring unwanted attention. ]Most of all, vicious sex killers do not carefully bathe, dress and wrap their victims. They are more likely to leave them displayed as a message than to hide them in the deepest corner of the basement.

    Do you agree w/the above?
    What would be the ramifications to RDI and to Occam's razor if the RDI puts forward the above premises as true, but there exists counterexample(s)?
     
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  3. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    Jim, this shows two dimensional thinking.

    It seems that if the crimes behind all these ransom notes went as originally planned, it would be the exception, not the rule.
     
  4. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    But he does not take a weapon possibly used in the assault, the flashlight.

    RDI has to account for some aspects of R's staging, such as ligature, but failure for others, such as obvious forced entry & not hiding sharpie & notepad.
     
  5. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    Thats exactly right. Anybody wanting to stage an intruder would stage an intruder everywhere not just in the basement. Disposing of the pen/paper, breaking a door, and maybe cleaning up the pineapple left out in the kitchen table would've drawn less attention to them.

    It has never made sense that parents wanting to stage a murder by intruder would leave food out while going to all that other trouble.
     
  6. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    Master HOTH, we must encourage the RDI in taking these positions prior to our revenge. Game of chess really. A more elegant skill from a more elegant time.

    Right now i'm thinking

    SD = king
    Ame = queen
    DeeDee= knight
    jmo bishop
     
  7. Ravyn

    Ravyn New Member

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    You know I find it disturbing that you can use revenge when the only thing I want is the person that done this brought to justice..I have tried to find this phantom intruder but every link that is posted always goes right back to the R's even the link voynich you leave..But get angry or upset with me but though my time here I haven't seen one link that haven't somehow pointed back to the R's..My opinions
     
  8. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    THe evidence in the RN do not support the RDI premise of a"motherly" interest using examples of "attache" "brown bad" but that of a young man schooled in "counterintelligence, attache, tactics, monitor, scanned, "
     
  9. Ravyn

    Ravyn New Member

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    Your name or Star Trek now...
     
  10. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    Continued in your training you have.

    Stronger now you are.
     
  11. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    I've become more powerful than any Jedi. :D

    You're empty.

    So are you.

    Do you hear that? It is the sound of a training coming. It is the sound of your death. Goodbye, Mr. Anderson.

    My name, is Voynich!

    Now, this is a truly unusual signature for an intruder sexual assault kidnapping. In fact, it is unique. Intruder assaults and kidnappings do happen, although their frequency is so low as to make them the rarest of all molestations and assaults on children. We can search the annals of such cases going back to the 19th century without finding anything remotely resembling the Ramsey case.

    Intruders, particularly strangers, do not make unforced entries. At the very least, this suggests an intruder who had some access to the house. Kidnappers do not linger to write long ransom notes, and sexual predators do not assault their prey in the house where the abduction takes place; screams could bring unwanted attention. Most of all, vicious sex killers do not carefully bathe, dress and wrap their victims. They are more likely to leave them displayed as a message than to hide them in the deepest corner of the basement.


    Use that good Southern Sense of yours.

    RDI, if this investigation was like a game of chess, would you move your piece in agreement with the above thesis?

    The delivery will be exhausting, so I advise you to be well rested.
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    So I see.

    I remember. "Wolf in the Fold."

    Excellent! A very good article if I do say so myself. But I fear you missed its meaning.

    Yes, I do. So do the profilers.

    None. It changes nothing. You don't seem to understand. Even if there ARE counterexamples (and I've yet to find a case even remotely like this one), it does not alter the fact that RDI is the simplest of the two explanations. That's my opinion, anyway.

    The problem as I see it, and again, this is MY OPINION, is that it's one thing to take an aspect from this case or that case, but I have yet to find a case where ALL of the aspects come together like this one would had to have happen to believe IDI. Let me put that another way: every single piece of evidence in this case can be argued back and forth. But when you look at the "big picture," when you take an holistic view, the conclusion is inescapable.

    Let me be even more succinct: there is not one single thing that proves RDI. It's the combination of everything.
     
  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    I believe I CAN account for those, gentlemen. In fact, I wrote it down in my book. I guess the best thing to do is to post a few excerpts and show you how I got to where I am.

    RDI has to account for some aspects of R's staging, such as ligature,

    Here goes:

    I'm just saying that, if it did start out as an unintentional killing, it might explain to all those naysayers why 911 wasn't called and why all of the staging was done: a child beauty queen, so destined for greatness killed in a common, garden-variety, run-of-the-mill, humdrum domestic incident? That would NEVER do! She was so spectacular in life. She HAD to be spectacular in death. Nothing but the best (or worst, depending on how you see it) for JonBenet. And she IS spectacular in death! Her death made her more well-known to more people than all of her performances put together. Not to mention that it's almost 13 years and people STILL remember her!

    There's something else to keep in mind, as well. CASKU said that the neck ligature served two purposes. First, it provided a means for the killer to kill without having to look at JB's face. Second, it provided a clean method of death, something that would not make a bloody mess that might show up later on clothing.

    but failure for others, such as obvious forced entry & not hiding sharpie & notepad

    Here you go:

    Sometimes I hear the question, or even ask it myself, "if they were out to stage a crime scene, why didn't they do a better job of it?" And my response is always the same, and usually a bit more multi-layered than they were expecting. In a general sense, it helps to remember that we are not talking about two master criminals here. These were people with no real idea of what a real crime scene would look like. All they had for reference was movies and TV. And it shows. As I always say, one must have the proper respect for the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
    But to get into specifics, why was no obvious forced entry staged? Because it would have ruined the staging, that's why. The whole point was to find the note first. NOTHING else could seem out of place initially. They couldn't get up that morning and say "time to go. God, it's cold in here."
    Moreover, if they were to claim forced entry, the question would inevitably follow: "why didn't you hear anything?"


    As for not hiding the Sharpie and notepad, what would be the point of that? The police would have eventually asked friends and neighbors if they recognized the paper and writing. Someone was bound to say, "Gee, that looks like PR's paper." More to the point, WHERE would they hide them?

    This assumes of course that they weren't already planning to try and hang this crime on someone who would have access to the house, like LHP. (And I'm not done with that aspect of it, not by a damn sight.)

    You guys getting all of this, or am I just talking to myself?

    HOTYH, that's exactly the problem: you EXPECT this to make sense. So let me state this plainly to everyone:

    Child murder NEVER makes sense to me. And the day it does, I will pray only for death.
     
  14. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    There's plenty of evidence for motherly interest in the RN, voynich. As I tell many people, you can't cut the RN up like a chicken in a butcher shop. You have to look at the whole thing. More to the point, you have to separate the words and phrases that you list, where the writer is merely trying to sound tougher and smarter than the police, with the moments where the REAL person managed to slip through.

    You're the big fan of psychoanalysis. I should think you'd have a better grip on what is conscious and what is subconscious.

    Not only that, but as I showed you, and will continue to do so upon request, the expert profilers are on our side on this issue, if nothing else.

    You still have much to learn.
     
  15. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    This one would.

    The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
     
  16. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    It is worth noting that "amateurs trying to look like professionals," or "they were confused, didn't know what to do" are wildcard explanations for phenomenon. Also, "it doesn't make sense because child murder will never make sense (appealing to popular sentiment)" is another wildcard explanation for phenomenon. That is, wildcard explanations conveniently allow rationalizing ANY crime scene phenomenon into ANY theory. I just thought I'd point that out.
     
  17. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    Honestly, from Cherokee to the linked analysis, and statement analysis, I think THEY cut it up into pieces. THey look at one sentence "The delivery will be exhausting, I advise you to be rested" even though a similar recommendation is made in Speed, Ransom, and Dirty Harry (with Dirty Harry having the most similar phrasing) and conclude this is "motherly" advice. ignorning sentences like "Don't think the killing will be difficult" and "she dies"


    the term attache is used a lot in business and military -- military attache.

    "proper burial" I can see how if PR wrote it she had in mind a beautiful funeral with lots of flowers and caskets and people attending. I can see that, though using a ligature to strangle her would disfigure this picture-perfect wedding w/death. Why not manually strangle her so that she could have a picture-perfect wedding.

    I saw proper burial along the lines of the decomposition and non-return of remains in other famous child killing cases from L&L to Linbergh baby (baby was decomposed) to Adam Walsh. --- denying her remains for a burial.
     
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    That doesn't mean they're not true. And they're not just MY explanations, either.

    Someone here once said it best: the Rs were COUNTING on wildcard explanations.

    This kind of stuff is apt to make a killer out of me.
     
  19. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    I take it you're not much of a Matrix fan as I am? :)

    What would you say about a child that was somehow missing *FROM HER HOME* during the time her parents present in the home, and her parents were swingers, engaging sex w/strangers in their home, not necessarily in front of their children, but certainly w/knowledge of their children, and allegedly recreational drug use, and, in the child's house,

    not a trace of forensic evidence left by this so-called intruder. No DNA. No hair, fingerprint, no fiber, no footprints, no sign of forced entry, nothing.

    there are two older cases which involve child abduction and murder, w/RN left at crime scene, w/ at least 1 parent in the house.

    would you say this is consistent w/the stated premises?
     
  20. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    No, they examine the lines to form an overall structure. That's far and away different from focusing on one or two lines to the exclusion of all others.

    It's not that people are ignoring them. It's a question of separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were.

    And JR just happened to be both. Would you like to read what some of the profilers said about the "attache" line? I can make that happen.

    Now you're talking my language!

    How do you figure that? That's not rhetorical, either.

    And risk leaving handprints?

    Incidentally, "wedding with death." I like that. I'd like to add it to the book, if that's all right.

    I realize that. Sometimes I think you forget that I used to be in your position.
     
  21. voynich

    voynich Former Member

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    Every crime has a unique combination of elements.
    The Virginia Tech massacre has a different combination than Colombine and that guy who went up a tower and shot at people (I forget but it was famous, I saw it on TV I think I recall it was Texas Univ. and he had brain tumor)

    There are similarities and differences between the DC sniper "Mohammad" and ZK. Both went on a shooting/killing spree. Both were good marksmen. Both sent messages and weird clues (Mohammad left tarot cards initially -- ZK cryptograms). But while DC had a younger partner, ZK acted alone. And DC wanted money, ZK did not.

    John Wayne Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer both preyed upon young boys as homosexuals, but while both sexually molested boys, Gacy was married and did not kill and eat his victims, Dahmer did. If L&L were not caught, it is highly likely they would have struck again.

    etc cetera..

    There are cases that are similar to JB, granted there are some differences.
     

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