In the trunk 2.6 days Decomp Info #1

[com n sense]

Respectfully, I just don't think she hid Caylee's body in the back yard for any amount of time as the house pets would have gone nuts over it and G or C would have found her. JMHO.

That's the reason why I never thought she was kept in the yard.
I still believe that there would have been more then one hair if Caylee was laid in the trunk. Somehow one hair escaped from the bag. Perhaps it was when KC put the two garbage bags (Caylee was already in) into the laundry bag. I don't think that was an easy task.

 

[Miller22]

This is my first time posting in the Catlee case, and I'm sorry that I haven't read every thread/post. But has there ever been any speculation about the use of a cooler?

 

[Tulessa]

That's the reason why I never thought she was kept in the yard.
I still believe that there would have been more then one hair if Caylee was laid in the trunk. Somehow one hair escaped from the bag. Perhaps it was when KC put the two garbage bags (Caylee was already in) into the laundry bag. I don't think that was an easy task.

A good vac can do wonders....

 

[watcher9]

FCA was lazy except when she was trying to please her new man of the day.

Two days backed in the garage. The first day to bag or re-bag Caylee's body and the second day to do a clean up of traces of Caylee's remains after dumping her body. Just what was needed to try to get rid of the smell, but not any major cleaning of the whole trunk. FCA probably used some type of vacuum cleaner that GA kept in the garage for detailing.

As far as the trash bags, she used whatever was in the garage. Regular or heavy weight would not have mattered to her. She probably bagged her once and when the smell began, she used a second bag. I wonder if she understood the true process of human decomposition. I think the laundry cloth bag was used in a plan to camouflage the bags to look like laundry and contain the smell. The odor kept getting stronger anyway so she threw her out. Plastic bags can disintegrate rather rapidly when left out in the open, but these bags were encased in the laundry bag and left in the woods without any sunlight to exacerbate the conditions.

 

[ZsaZsa]

FCA was lazy except when she was trying to please her new man of the day.

Two days backed in the garage. The first day to bag or re-bag Caylee's body and the second day to do a clean up of traces of Caylee's remains after dumping her body. Just what was needed to try to get rid of the smell, but not any major cleaning of the whole trunk. FCA probably used some type of vacuum cleaner that GA kept in the garage for detailing.

As far as the trash bags, she used whatever was in the garage. Regular or heavy weight would not have mattered to her. She probably bagged her once and when the smell began, she used a second bag. I wonder if she understood the true process of human decomposition. I think the laundry cloth bag was used in a plan to camouflage the bags to look like laundry and contain the smell. The odor kept getting stronger anyway so she threw her out. Plastic bags can disintegrate rather rapidly when left out in the open, but these bags were encased in the laundry bag and left in the woods without any sunlight to exacerbate the conditions.

Just reading that makes me squirm. I wonder if those memories intrude on her dreams now?

 

[wonders]

This is my first time posting in the Catlee case, and I'm sorry that I haven't read every thread/post. But has there ever been any speculation about the use of a cooler?

Welcome to our world Miller22. Interesting speculation theroy I must say. However, I don't think she used one, as it would have been found in the swamp with Caylee. The styrofoam cooler type probably would have been in pieces and a plastic one would have yeilded more evidence for us I think. Good thought though Miller22.

 

[azwriter]

FCA was lazy except when she was trying to please her new man of the day.

Two days backed in the garage. The first day to bag or re-bag Caylee's body and the second day to do a clean up of traces of Caylee's remains after dumping her body. Just what was needed to try to get rid of the smell, but not any major cleaning of the whole trunk. FCA probably used some type of vacuum cleaner that GA kept in the garage for detailing.

As far as the trash bags, she used whatever was in the garage. Regular or heavy weight would not have mattered to her. She probably bagged her once and when the smell began, she used a second bag. I wonder if she understood the true process of human decomposition. I think the laundry cloth bag was used in a plan to camouflage the bags to look like laundry and contain the smell. The odor kept getting stronger anyway so she threw her out. Plastic bags can disintegrate rather rapidly when left out in the open, but these bags were encased in the laundry bag and left in the woods without any sunlight to exacerbate the conditions.

Very sensible post watcher 9. I believe you're right on with the process Casey went through. But, I have a another idea of the laundry bag. Besides providing extra leaking protection, I think she used it as a way to move her daughter's body easier. She could carry her wrongful deed easier into the woods with those handles. But, you are also correct in saying the laundry bag was used as a camouflage.
Furthermore, as you say, she didn't know the first thing about what happens to a dead body. I hope that smell is still inside her head.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

It's the memory of the trunk and bagging her and cleaning up the smell that made her sick at trial not the fact her poor baby remains were found in the woods

 

[logicalgirl]

FCA was lazy except when she was trying to please her new man of the day.

Two days backed in the garage. The first day to bag or re-bag Caylee's body and the second day to do a clean up of traces of Caylee's remains after dumping her body. Just what was needed to try to get rid of the smell, but not any major cleaning of the whole trunk. FCA probably used some type of vacuum cleaner that GA kept in the garage for detailing.

As far as the trash bags, she used whatever was in the garage. Regular or heavy weight would not have mattered to her. She probably bagged her once and when the smell began, she used a second bag. I wonder if she understood the true process of human decomposition. I think the laundry cloth bag was used in a plan to camouflage the bags to look like laundry and contain the smell. The odor kept getting stronger anyway so she threw her out. Plastic bags can disintegrate rather rapidly when left out in the open, but these bags were encased in the laundry bag and left in the woods without any sunlight to exacerbate the conditions.

Yes, agree with you and the poster who said the laundry bag for easier moving. When I experimented with the weight of a child that day in a garbage, I found it hard to carry because the weight was centered in the bag, which seemed to make it feel heavier.

At first, being a compassionate person, I assumed FCA wrapped little Caylee in a blanket then put her in the laundry bag and then the garbage bags. Somehow the fact she was placed first in the garbage bags completely buzzed through my brain leaving no information behind.

I guess I was assuming some tenderness with regret, not remorse, at killing her - sheesh - y'know some normality in her reaction showing some tenderness to her own child..:banghead: Yeah yeah I know - keep the hooting and shouting down to a dull roar!

Also - I just don't think she went into the trunk of the car unbundled - there would have been more hair, or skin cells or something. Remember, the CSI for the prosecution said the trunk had not been cleaned - wped with paper towels but not cleaned or vacuumed.

 

[Eidetic]

It's the memory of the trunk and bagging her and cleaning up the smell that made her sick at trial not the fact her poor baby remains were found in the woods

This is what makes me so angry and sick. How she could not picture handling her limp, lifeless baby in that moment of selfishness and cruelty before snuffing her life out and fall to her knees sobbing at even the idea of it is what makes her a monster.

We all have had dark thoughts that have shown us a side of ourselves we'd rather not face and snapped us back into the real world, Casey lives in a fantasy. She turned her darkness into reality and now lives her life just as planned above the law and Caylee will never get to see her third birthday or beyond. Children are innocent not disposable. :furious:

 

[logicalgirl]

Not to worry. The word "experiment" should have sufficed for anyone. It yields inconclusive results generally but does answer questions. I am always interested in what you have to say......it's "logical" info I'm interested in reading, not the anaylization of what the "biodegradeable" rate is of a plastic bag. At the time she was put in the bag, the bag was new so how that would even factor into whether or not it would hold the weight of a small child 6 months later doesn't even matter. The earlier post above is moot.

Thank you for your thoughts - you "got" what it was I was trying to do. The two bags, the cloth bag - why? So putting the equivalent of 35 lbs into a garbage so it is (forgive me) dead weight - that is not hanging on with little arms and legs - is difficult to move any distance.

I suspect most of us have hefted a 10 pound bag of flour or rice off a supermarket shelf into our basket - and we would need three of those plus a five pound bag of sugar. I was surprised at how heavy it actually felt, and not surprised one garbage bag didn't hold that weight.

I only wish someone else had tried the experiment also - one "finding" doesn't mean much...

 

[Spice]

As heavy and as gruesome and impossible as it all may sound, it is obvious that Casey was capable of doing it because she had too. What other options did she have? She had to contain her and get her body out of the car. It's not like she could have called somebody for help. All of the bagging was to contain the fluids, to facilitate dumping, and to hide what was inside. It is what it is. Casey was out of options and had to do what she had to do, no matter how heavy or how gruesome the task. She didn't care about her baby, she murdered her, so why would dumping her matter?

Casey lived/s minute to minute. She threw Caylee in the trunk and went about her business with Tony. She had no plan for after Caylee was dead. None. And as the days went by she had to figure out what to do as the smell worsened and worsened. I agree with what the poster said about backing in the garage. She did that twice. Once to add more bags and once to "wipe" down or attempt to clean the trunk.

If Casey was anything she was sloppy and careless throughout the entire process. All that mattered were her social plans and Tony. Caylee got in the way of all of that which is why she died, she also got in the way of all of that after she died. Getting rid of Caylee's body was just as much of an imposition to Casey as spending time with her was.

 

[eve80]

As heavy and as gruesome and impossible as it all may sound, it is obvious that Casey was capable of doing it because she had too. What other options did she have? She had to contain her and get her body out of the car. It's not like she could have called somebody for help. All of the bagging was to contain the fluids, to facilitate dumping, and to hide what was inside. It is what it is. Casey was out of options and had to do what she had to do, no matter how heavy or how gruesome the task. She didn't care about her baby, she murdered her, so why would dumping her matter?

Casey lived/s minute to minute. She threw Caylee in the trunk and went about her business with Tony. She had no plan for after Caylee was dead. None. And as the days went by she had to figure out what to do as the smell worsened and worsened. I agree with what the poster said about backing in the garage. She did that twice. Once to add more bags and once to "wipe" down or attempt to clean the trunk.

If Casey was anything she was sloppy and careless throughout the entire process. All that mattered were her social plans and Tony. Caylee got in the way of all of that which is why she died, she also got in the way of all of that after she died. Getting rid of Caylee's body was just as much of an imposition to Casey as spending time with her was.

I completely agree. There was no plan. She tried what she could and did what she had to do.

 

[LolaMoon08]

It's the memory of the trunk and bagging her and cleaning up the smell that made her sick at trial not the fact her poor baby remains were found in the woods

I have to disagree with this. Casey was not sick because of the memories of what she had done. She was sick because she knew this evidence SHOULD have fried her. Casey would never react to something that had to do with anything but herself. She could care less about the smell or what she had done.

Go back to the night that Cindy called 911 and Lee finding Casey sitting in the garage with her car, the smell, etc... Lee had to leave the garage because the smell was so bad. Casey stayed. Why? That smell was soothing to her, IMO. I believe she enjoyed what she had done and the smell was reassuring to her. The same way some killers take pictures of their victims to relive their crimes, Casey found that in the smell of her car. She fully enjoyed what she had reduced Caylee too. She probably still loves the fact that her mother and father's last memories of Caylee are the smell of her decomposing body in the trunk of her car. She probably hates George for even destroying HER car. No doubt in my mind, if that car was not destroyed, Casey would be driving around in it now. Just to spite everyone.

Casey, to this day, does not think about Caylee or what she has done. As evidence by her little home diaries she released. It's all about her infected nose ring and her, her, her... Caylee never existed. She even had the nerve to flaunt Caylee's ashes in her necklace as she talked about herself. Sending a big "F-U" to Caylee and all of us.

To think Casey had any form of acknowledgement or regret about anything related to those 31 days is to give Casey human traits and that is too much to her credit. She is a monster.

MOO

 

[watcher9]

Thank you for your thoughts - you "got" what it was I was trying to do. The two bags, the cloth bag - why? So putting the equivalent of 35 lbs into a garbage so it is (forgive me) dead weight - that is not hanging on with little arms and legs - is difficult to move any distance.

I suspect most of us have hefted a 10 pound bag of flour or rice off a supermarket shelf into our basket - and we would need three of those plus a five pound bag of sugar. I was surprised at how heavy it actually felt, and not surprised one garbage bag didn't hold that weight.

I only wish someone else had tried the experiment also - one "finding" doesn't mean much...

I don't know how to delicately put it as this is very graphic...
By the time Caylee was discarded, would she have weighed that much? The link below says that a child's body has about 75% water.
If she was decomposing, would the fluids evaporate in the trunk because of the FL heat, causing her to lose body weight?

http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question22373.html

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't know how to delicately put it as this is very graphic...
By the time Caylee was discarded, would she have weighed that much? The link below says that a child's body has about 75% water.
If she was decomposing, would the fluids evaporate in the trunk because of the FL heat, causing her to lose body weight?

http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question22373.html

No - agree - definitely agree - no delicate way.

But the difference is that my assumptions are that Caylee was immediately bagged in at least one garbage bag and put in to the trunk of the car - because there was so little hair or bug evidence left behind.

 

[watcher9]

No - agree - definitely agree - no delicate way.

But the difference is that my assumptions are that Caylee was immediately bagged in at least one garbage bag and put in to the trunk of the car - because there was so little hair or bug evidence left behind.

GRAPHIC -
Why so little hair in the trunk? How long does it take before it starts falling out? What if most or all of her hair was in a ponytail and caught up in the duct tape where it could come loose from the skull but not fall away?

Why wasn't there more bug evidence? I don't know. The white trash bag thrown in the dumpster had bugs in it because of a few paper towels with gravy wax. Were these towels the last ones used to clean FCA's hands after dumping Caylee's remains? LE said it didn't look like anyone cleaned the trunk, but we don't know if other paper towels were used earlier to soak up fluids and remove bugs. They could have been put in the garbage and taken away by the trash man long before anyone knew Caylee was missing.

I can understand your assumptions and and believe that it could have happened that way. At this time though, I think I'm leaning more toward Caylee just being put in the trunk with duct tape before getting bagged later on. I wish we knew the real answers.

 

[Jaykayelle]

GRAPHIC -
Why so little hair in the trunk? How long does it take before it starts falling out? What if most or all of her hair was in a ponytail and caught up in the duct tape where it could come loose from the skull but not fall away?

Why wasn't there more bug evidence? I don't know. The white trash bag thrown in the dumpster had bugs in it because of a few paper towels with gravy wax. Were these towels the last ones used to clean FCA's hands after dumping Caylee's remains? LE said it didn't look like anyone cleaned the trunk, but we don't know if other paper towels were used earlier to soak up fluids and remove bugs. They could have been put in the garbage and taken away by the trash man long before anyone knew Caylee was missing.

I can understand your assumptions and and believe that it could have happened that way. At this time though, I think I'm leaning more toward Caylee just being put in the trunk with duct tape before getting bagged later on. I wish we knew the real answers.

I am in agreement with being bagged later. I would guess that if a bag were used and decompositional fluids leaked out, that there would be more "puddle-like" (for lack of a better description) staining evident in the trunk. For instance, a puddle where the ties were at the top or from any potential holes, etc. Instead, we see an outline of of a child.

I believe the lack of hair in the trunk was due to the fact that a majority of her hair was stuck to the duct tape. Maybe there were a few stray hairs that weren't and one happened to be found in the trunk.

I just read this thesis about determining the postmortem deterioration of human hair (forgive me if someone else has posted about this already).

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-01242005-145140/unrestricted/Collier_thesis.pdf

What I noticed is that the researcher noted that the hair samples collected from cadavers had to be plucked from their heads. What I gleaned from that is that at least some if not most human head hair will remain on the scalp until it is physically removed or there is no longer any tissue holding it. So that may also explain the lack of hairs in the trunk.

Of course this is JMO.

 

[logicalgirl]

GRAPHIC -
Why so little hair in the trunk? How long does it take before it starts falling out? What if most or all of her hair was in a ponytail and caught up in the duct tape where it could come loose from the skull but not fall away?

Why wasn't there more bug evidence? I don't know. The white trash bag thrown in the dumpster had bugs in it because of a few paper towels with gravy wax. Were these towels the last ones used to clean FCA's hands after dumping Caylee's remains? LE said it didn't look like anyone cleaned the trunk, but we don't know if other paper towels were used earlier to soak up fluids and remove bugs. They could have been put in the garbage and taken away by the trash man long before anyone knew Caylee was missing.

I can understand your assumptions and and believe that it could have happened that way. At this time though, I think I'm leaning more toward Caylee just being put in the trunk with duct tape before getting bagged later on. I wish we knew the real answers.

Oh yes and re the puddle vs the outline - the outline would have been easy - depending on the the amount of fluid. I actually see it the other way around - if she hadn't been bagged there would have been a larger puddle - but that's just me.

Yes, I agree with what you are saying and the one huge sticking point for me is I think FCA only thought about FCA. We know don't we that she backed her car into the garage on the 18th?

Okay so to me the picture looks like Caylee was in the trunk of the car for two days which would mean a fair amount of decomp fluid by that time. But the big sticker again for me that I can't wrap my head around was the thought of Caylee being in that trunk for 2 days uncovered. How could she possibly know that no one would open that trunk during that period of time? She couldn't have been sure - she might have gone through something as simple as a road block. When we have them up here we have to pop our trunks as each of us go through.

On the otherhand, maybe this explains the mysterious wool fibres we wondered about. Maybe she had her covered with a blanket during that time? One that was already in the trunk?

 

[AZlawyer]

Oh yes and re the puddle vs the outline - the outline would have been easy - depending on the the amount of fluid. I actually see it the other way around - if she hadn't been bagged there would have been a larger puddle - but that's just me.

Yes, I agree with what you are saying and the one huge sticking point for me is I think FCA only thought about FCA. We know don't we that she backed her car into the garage on the 18th?

Okay so to me the picture looks like Caylee was in the trunk of the car for two days which would mean a fair amount of decomp fluid by that time. But the big sticker again for me that I can't wrap my head around was the thought of Caylee being in that trunk for 2 days uncovered. How could she possibly know that no one would open that trunk during that period of time? She couldn't have been sure - she might have gone through something as simple as a road block. When we have them up here we have to pop our trunks as each of us go through.

On the otherhand, maybe this explains the mysterious wool fibres we wondered about. Maybe she had her covered with a blanket during that time? One that was already in the trunk?

Didn't Cindy say there was a blanket of some kind normally in the trunk?? One that wasn't there when the car was recovered?

ETA: Found the reference (although the document is stored on a site I can't link here). Cindy's 7/29/09 deposition:

Q Did you have knowledge as to whether or not Casey stored anything in the trunk?

A Yeah. She would keep -- usually she had basket and she would keep -- we had a blanket that we kept in there and I'm pretty sure she had a first-aid kit. And usually she would have an extra change of clothes, maybe a pair of shoes in there. And I think she even had new seat covers in there. And a visor for the windshield is usually kept in the trunk. We were going to put new seat covers on her car because there was a couple of, you know, places that was getting thinner.

. . .

Q Okay. The blue bin that's shown in Exhibit 15, is that the blue bin that was in the trunk?

A Yes. That -- I took that out of the trunk.

Q Okay. Were there items in the blue bin that you recall at this time?

A Typically there's a blanket and some other items. I don't know why they're not in there. I don't know so --

Q Do you have a specific recollection of what else was in the blue bin?

A I know typically, when I would see Casey's car, there would be a blanket that was -- like a red-plaid blanket and then her car-seat covers. Those she could have taken out. But the last time I had seen it-- truthfully, I don't recall if there's stuff in there, but typically that's what was in the bin in the back.