Indonesia - Boeing 737 with 62 aboard missing, Jan 2021

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by dixiegirl1035, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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  2. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    The head of Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Commission told CNN that they have located two different locations for the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and Flight Data Recorder (FDR) from Sriwijaya Air Flight 182.

    Suryanto Cahyono said that both the CVR and FDR -- which are known as black boxes -- are transmitting intermittent ping signals to a receiver that can "detect and locate the black boxes."

    Cahyono added that the special device will yield a more accurate result in comparison to ping locators or sonar gear that are installed on ships, and said that it is now in the hands of divers from the Indonesian Navy.

    Earlier on Sunday evening, Commander of the Indonesian National Armed Forces, Marshal Hadi Tjahjanto, said they are "receiving two signals from the black box and are continuing to monitor it." He added that he hoped to retrieve it soon from the seabed, 23 meters (approximately 75 feet) below the surface.

    Indonesia plane crash: Black boxes located as human remains recovered
     
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  3. Richrd

    Richrd Seven Year Member

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    .
    Generic Aviation Terms:
    Altitude = Distance above the Ground
    ASN = Aviation Safety Network
    Chopper = Helicopter
    CVR = Cockpit Voice Recorder
    Elevation = Distance above Mean Sea Level
    EMS = Emergency Medical Services
    EPIRB = Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacon
    FAA = Federal Aviation Administration
    FDR = Flight Data Recorder
    Fuselage = [FEW'·suh·laazh] = Main Part of Aircraft
    IFR = Instrument Flight Rules
    IMC = Instrument Meteorological Conditions
    MSL = Mean/Average Sea Level
    NTSB = National Transportation Safety Board
    SAR = Search and Rescue
    TOX = Toxicology - Foreign Substances in Body
    UAV = Unmanned Aerial Vehicle - Drone
    VFR = Visual Flight Rules

    Our Support To All...

    [Contribution # 7850
    Thread # 555593]

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  4. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    No, though the plane is the same over all type (Boeing 737), it was not the grounded variant (Boeing 737 Max).

    As a side note, one plane lost in Indonesia was a "Max". In addition to this crash of a 26 year old plane, there was a crash involving a new Airbus.

    Indonesia has a mix of characteristics that make air line travel dangerous:

    It has a growing middle class that can afford air travel, so air travel is booming. Its also an island nation, so air travel is popular and a needed convenience. But, it is also a developing nation, so a lot of local airlines use sub, or perhaps, sub sub contracted maintenance and flight crew training may be abbreviated by western standards.
     
  5. AutumnFalls

    AutumnFalls Well-Known Member

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    My initial thoughts were that it was a Boeing Max I don't since the nosedive of the plane sounds scarily similar. But, my very inexpert opinion would guess that it would be a computer issue as opposed to a mechanical issue. I know planes can glide without power and I think a bird strike or other engine problem/fire would have been noticed by other people and I doubt that it would cause a sudden nose dive.

    I also have to wonder if wake turbulence could be a factor. I know that caused a plane to drop sharply a couple years ago. But, it seems like the plane was at cruising altitude which I think is too high for wake turbulence. Does anyone know if that's the case? Or how a microburst affects a plane? I seem to recall that they are the most dangerous natural occurrence for planes.

    Airline says ‘vortex’ sent plane into terrifying nosedive (nypost.com)

    After some further Googling, it seems like wake turbulence is a possibility but it is definitely more common on takeoff/landing and more often happens when a smaller plane is behind a larger (heavy) plane. The Boeing 737 isn't that small of a plane so I think that makes this idea less likely.

    Wake Vortex Turbulence - SKYbrary Aviation Safety

    New Zealand Flight manual about turbulance 660.pdf (skybrary.aero)
     
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  6. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  7. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    Seems to be some differing reports about the black boxes. Some said they are "recovered" and others that they have just been "located."

    As for the crash, hard to say now. It was already at 10,000 ft. Witnesses reported hearing explosion(s), so maybe an engine exploding? Initial reports say it appears the plane hit the water intact, so it didn't blow up at altitude. I do wonder about the weather. But Indonesian airlines are known for poor maintenance in the past. I'm guessing the black boxes will tell the story.
     
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  8. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    As a side note....

    Boeing 737s have a normal life expectancy of 30 years, with 40 years being possible with an extensive re-build (metal fatigue on frames and panels in a key issue with older aircraft).

    The lost plane was 26 years old, so not at the end of a normal life expectancy, but getting there. Even more telling, however, are the comments made a by a consulting pilot on a news broadcast last night.

    He stated that the airline operating the plane had acquired it through a "triple hand me down" (probably via a series of leasing and sub leasing agreements). This, of course, raises the possibility of incomplete maintenance or maintenance being done by say, sub, sub contractors.
     
  9. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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  10. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    Plane That Crashed in Indonesia Didn’t Fly for Nine Months

    “The Sriwijaya Air jet that crashed on Saturday didn’t fly for nearly nine months last year, with air travel severely reduced because of the coronavirus pandemic, Indonesia’s transportation ministry said, as search crews pulled one of the plane’s so-called black boxes from the Java Sea.

    The Boeing Co. 737-500 was inspected and declared airworthy before resuming flying operations, the ministry said.”
    ——-
    Was wondering if the captain and first officer has been furloughed as well due to Covid.

    Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
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  11. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    That is interesting. But it had been flying again for a couple of weeks before the crash. I wonder how many flights it had made.
     
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  12. MimosaMornings

    MimosaMornings Well- Known Member

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    Indonesian Plane Went From No Flights to 132 in Less Than a Month

    “The aging plane flew during a heavy storm in a country with a long history of flight disasters. It had also been out of service for nine months.

    The plane had conducted 132 flights since it left storage, said Ian Petchenik, a Flightradar24 spokesman.

    The airlines’ pilots also faced long periods on the ground. Capt. Afwan, the pilot in command of Sriwijaya Air Flight 182, spent much of his time last year in flight simulator sessions to maintain his skills.”
     
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  13. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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  14. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    The search for one of the black boxes from the Sriwijaya Air passenger jet that crashed in the Java Sea last Saturday (Jan 9) has been suspended due to bad weather, Indonesian officials said.

    The jet's flight-data recorder was retrieved on Tuesday, but the other black box that captures pilot communications and sounds from the cockpit has not been recovered.

    The locator beacons on both boxes were dislodged by the force of impact.

    The retrieved flight-data recorder is "in relatively good shape", Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Committee Chairman Soerjanto Tjahjono said.

    The box is being dried out and the contents should be downloaded within five days, he said.

    Indonesia Sriwijaya air crash search suspended due to bad weather
     
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  15. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    KNKT head Soerjanto Tjahjono added that the plane's turbine disc had been found with a damaged fan blade - ruling out the theory that the plane had exploded mid-air.

    "The damaged fan blade indicates that the machine was still functioning when it crashed. This [is] also in line with the belief that the plane's system was still functioning when it reached 250ft," said Mr Soerjanto in a written statement to reporters.

    Indonesia crash: Sriwijaya Air plane's flight data recorder retrieved
     
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  16. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    The fact the debris does not appear to have spread far suggests the plane may have been intact before it hit the water, an investigator with Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Committee (KNKT) told news agency Reuters.

    "It possibly ruptured when it hit waters because if it had exploded mid-air, the debris would be distributed more widely," said Nurcahyo Utomo....

    The plane is thought to have dropped more than 3,000m (10,000ft) in less than a minute, according to flight tracking website Flightradar24.com.

    Witnesses said they had seen and heard at least one explosion.

    Sriwijaya Air crash: Indonesia divers search wreckage as black box hunt resumes
     
  17. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Indonesia Plane Crash Probe’s Focus Is on Lack of Pilot Response to Controllers
    ''A communication breakdown between pilots and air-traffic controllers has emerged as an early focus of the investigation into last weekend’s crash of a 1990s-era Boeing 737 in Indonesia, according to people with knowledge of the probe.

    The cockpit crew of the Sriwijaya Air jet, which plunged into the Java Sea minutes after takeoff, failed to acknowledge or respond to two radio transmissions from controllers questioning why the aircraft had shifted from its designated route during its climb away from Jakarta’s Soekarno-Hatta International Airport, the people said. Instead of flying northeast as expected, the plane veered northwest and at one point, a controller instructed the pilots to execute a turn to get back on track, one of these people said.''

     
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  18. cujenn81

    cujenn81 Well-Known Member

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    Indonesia downloads data from flight recorder of crashed Sriwijaya Air jet

    KNKT said the FDR data confirmed that both of the plane's engines had been operating when the plane hit the water, as it had earlier stated based on the wreckage.

    Indonesian divers found the casing of a cockpit voice recorder, but are still searching for its memory unit, navy officer Abdul Rasyid said.

    "We've found the body or casing, we've found the beacon and now we're looking for the memory," Mr Abdul told reporters aboard the navy ship Rigel, which was televised live.

    He was confident divers would find the memory within the next few days, adding that a plane's black boxes are usually strong and can withstand an impact.
     
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  19. watcher9

    watcher9 Well-Known Member

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    That is unreal that the CVR case would have come open/apart.
    I was thinking the black boxes were indestructible.
     
  20. Warwick1991

    Warwick1991 Well-Known Member

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    Since the jet dropped 10,000 feet in a minute, it probably struck the seabed with enormous force. The water is about 75 feet deep in the crash zone. That is much less than the length of the jet. My guess is that the cockpit area struck the seabed with enough force to disintegrate the area.
     
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