GUILTY Ireland - Anastasia Kriegel, 14, Found deceased, Lucan, Co Dublin, 14 May 2018 *minors arrested*

Discussion in 'Trials' started by molly67, May 18, 2018.

  1. Keeneye

    Keeneye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Have been following this thread rip ana poor gorgeous girl . Was shocked at the parents of boy b .. what’s that all about ? I mean boy b had loads of opportunities to say what he knew and where they could find her , so for me the father has a cheek to act as he did . I also blame the parents all round not knowing what your kids are watching online ! I’ve got a 15 yr old daughter and 8 yr old son and I’m all in there search histories . This case has really affected me as my own daughter had a terrible time transitioning to secondary and was bullied , her own pals from primary school didn’t help or support her . Reading about ana and what happened has truly scared me ! I hope there is movement on banning porn , I had a conversation with my daughter about the case because you can’t trust anyone ! So she informed me kids use PornHub for sex education !
     


  2. LaCEZ

    LaCEZ Member

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    13
    This was a comment in Patrick Gabey closing statement on behalf of Boy A, quite telling what he is saying about Boy B.

    "Mr Gageby said it was not a house either where anyone would have held a view that Ana was not part of the community or would pass any adverse comment on her appearance."
     
  3. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,592
    Likes Received:
    38,308
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is quite interesting @Charlot123

    IIRC for violent offenders on their first sexual assault, it is not uncommon for them to lose control and murder the victim before the sex act takes place.

    You will frequently see overkill, because of the rage etc. They may then sexually attack the victim posthumously.

    The issue in all these cases about what is planned, is the poor impulse control of the offender.

    So for example in the Jo Yates case, it is highly likely the attack was planned, but not the murder aspect. Then poor Jo was murdered while resisting. The killer simply never thought through that aspect IMO, or simply decided to take huge risks, leading to a rushed dumping.

    This is why (thankfully) most of these sorts of offenders are caught on their first attack. They attack someone they know, and don't plan how to cover the murder up.

    However, the profiling of this case does IMO, reveal strong aspects of premeditation. The victim was lured to a hidden location where the attackers would have full power over her. This is common in these types of murder cases where the victim is either abducted or lured to such a place. Often times the body is them dumped elsewhere, but in this case the boys had no car to achieve it.
     
  4. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,592
    Likes Received:
    38,308
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The criminal law has tended to take a clear eyed view to party offending for policy reasons. Otherwise all the offenders can just say it was the other one that did the really bad stuff.

    From what we've now been able to read, it seems clear Ana was lured to the room initially by Boy B, but that they were joined by Boy A before they entered the house. Boy A had his rape kit with him. It's likely Boy B had the tape (which he foolishly admitted was his). I guess the weapon was already at the house?

    Per testimony, at some point she was lured in to the room, where she was incapacitated by one or more heavy blows. Then dragged into the room close to the window where there was light.

    If the jury believes this sequence, IMO it is hard for Boy B to claim his involvement was over, when he clearly hung around for Ana to be stripped and tape to be put around her neck. At some point Ana begins to fight for her life, and IMO Boy B remained IMO.

    What I think they CCTV indicates is that Boy B leaves before Boy A - probably when he realised Ana was dead.

    IMO it's likely Boy A, having subdued the victim (via murder), then sexually assaulted her.

    my 02c
     
  5. mrazda71

    mrazda71 Human bean

    Messages:
    2,940
    Likes Received:
    10,153
    Trophy Points:
    113

    RSBM

    "Very nice and harmless" ... sorry but I nearly choked reading that.

    Anyone, of any age, who can take part in and watch a girl being raped and murdered and then do nothing to help, even from the safety of a police interview room is anything but "very nice and harmless".

    If this boy was alone on a deserted island ... he still wouldn't be "very nice and harmless".

    He'd be a disturbed deviant sitting on an island, looking on the outside like an angel but that mask is only hiding what's going on inside his head which is far from angelic.

    Jamie Bulger killers Robert Thompson and Jon Venables for example.

    Of the 2, it was considered, at the time that Venables, the more 'cute' looking child, the one from the better family, the one who cried the most after arrest, was the lesser evil of the two boys.

    It was Thompson, the feral child who MUST be the ringleader. He was tested for Psychpathy before being allowed parole because in part, of his transformation during his detention.

    And yet, it's Venables who has gone on to display extreme interest in violence & child abuse images and Thompson is living a quiet life.

    Boy B was absolutely in on A plan ... he may well have not fully appreciated what might happen and just how far boy A would go but, he knew his friend and would know better than anyone else what 'might' happen.
    However, his actions once it did happen say very loud and clear for me that he is far from nice or harmless.

    He took her from her house to her fate.
    He stayed.
    He watched
    He did nothing to help.
    He lied to his parents.
    He lied to police during 8? Separate interviews.

    In my opinion, he is just as dangerous as boy A ... if not more so.
     
  6. tennison

    tennison Member

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    18
    ive heard two independent stories on who boy A is. very disturbing if true
     
  7. Frizby

    Frizby Active Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I agree with everything you said their about Boy B, he is manipulative and calculating. He took Ana to that abandoned house where he knew Boy A was waiting. He took Ana from her house on a pretence, she left that house happy, skipping and smiling. He has constantly lied to the police in every interview including his last on as was evident what has come out in the psychologist report. He was there to the very end, he said to psychologist that when Boy A stood up with his trousers down Ana was still, not moving. Boy A is bad, Boy B is a different kind of bad.
     
  8. Kikixxxx

    Kikixxxx On Time Out

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    6,399
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can’t find the article about the psychologist report. Can anyone link me please?
     
    Marg from Oz likes this.
  9. Frizby

    Frizby Active Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    43
    It is discussed in the article I quoted in my post #229 linked above and in this article Ana Kriegel verdict: Psychologist said Boy B was 'a pleasant, nice lad' suffering from PTSD

    Bear in mind when reading this that this report was commissioned by the Defence team.
     
    Jim_M, Legally Bland and Kikixxxx like this.
  10. TaylorCallum

    TaylorCallum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    3,778
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Apologies, I'm really not very knowledgable on how Irish law works, but what would you guys estimate the length of their sentences will be? What age do you think they will be when they get out?
     
    Marg from Oz, Jim_M and Legally Bland like this.
  11. Kikixxxx

    Kikixxxx On Time Out

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    6,399
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have an awful feeling it will be a complete joke of a sentence, it doesn’t fill me with much confidence that the judge let the boys be excused from the pathologist report as it was so horrific even though they were the ones accused of inflicting those injuries. I feel like he’s protecting them cause of their age so I’m really not convinced it’s going to be a long sentence :( I hope I’m wrong
     
  12. Kiranerys

    Kiranerys #LiveLikeLizzy

    Messages:
    1,369
    Likes Received:
    12,166
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The psychologist says there was a "language difficulty " and the police reports say that he was articulate and used advanced language,such as describing Ana's trousers as being "synthetic leather",and held his own in the dialogue! So which one was he fooling?
     
  13. TaylorCallum

    TaylorCallum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    3,778
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Yeah, me neither. The pathologist report part really got me as well! It actually surprised me that they were allowed to sit with their families during the trial, also that they were allowed out on bail. I suppose they were presumed innocent until found guilty though.
     
  14. Frizby

    Frizby Active Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    43
    No idea really, on reading his statement it does not appear to me that there are any language difficulties. 'I felt immediately there was something wrong': The intensive garda investigation into Ana Kriegel's death


    In considering the psychologist report I always have to keep reminding myself that this was commissioned by the Defence. It could be that either one or both of his parents is a foreign nation and that was being used here to confuse matters as he may not have spoken English from birth. It does see to be totally at odds to what the Garda were saying.
     
    Marg from Oz, Jim_M, Kikixxxx and 2 others like this.
  15. Frizby

    Frizby Active Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    43
    There is no precedent on a case like this but it is not like the US, we tend to be more lenient, even more lenient than the UK.
     
  16. KyleDeverell

    KyleDeverell Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    422
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2019
  17. rodyarodya

    rodyarodya Active Member

    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    192
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Oh gosh, O'Donoghue. Not heard that name for awhile, and a case I remember well. On the face of it, he seems (seemed?) to have rehabilitated well enough, but there was a lot more going on in that story than he was prosecuted for. In my opinion!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2019
    IHAVENOCLUE, Marg from Oz and Jim_M like this.
  18. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    31,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was thinking that if boy A was not unlike Eric Harris, only sexually, then boy B was Dylan Klebold to him. This could probably explain my outlook on the situation.

    Eric Harris (who was not a sex attacker but chose another way to annihilate people) could have probably pulled the Columbine without Dylan, but it would have been more difficult. Dylan alone would have not done it.

    The dyad element is an important, and interesting , factor in violent crimes. Something to be studied.

    Sorry for typos, I don’t have eyeglasses on.

    MOO
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  19. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    31,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is the mistake that too many parents make with “good” kids.
     
    Marg from Oz and Jim_M like this.
  20. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    31,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The way they described his speech sounds “stilted” to me.

    Stilted speech - Wikipedia

    Too professorial, too bookish, too adult. And these Legos. What do you make of them?

    I wonder if boy B could have potentially become a social outcast himself, but unlike Ana, flew under the radar.

    Such kids would do everything to stay in the “popular” group, and boy A, as I understand, was at least popular himself.
     
    Marg from Oz, Jim_M and Kikixxxx like this.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice