GUILTY Ireland - Anastasia Kriegel, 14, Found deceased, Lucan, Co Dublin, 14 May 2018 *minors arrested*

Discussion in 'Trials' started by molly67, May 18, 2018.

  1. molly67

    molly67 Well-Known Member

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    I think you might be right about a serious character assassination of poor Ana - If they go down that route I believe there will be a public out cry.
     
  2. KyleDeverell

    KyleDeverell Active Member

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    We will have to wait and see but the system is adversarial so victim blaming and slut shaming will probably feature. Unfortunately there is no incentive for an accused to plead guilty and save relations the horror of a trial. The sentence of 40 years is mandatory. The main impact of a refusal to plead guilty is that it should impact on the release date given the lack of remorse etc. The novelty here for the court here is the age of the defendants. While stating they are being tried as adults, a number of concessions have already been made.
    In relation to the point about a public outcry, given the national and international disgust at Elizabeth O'Connell SC asking the jury to consider the underwear of a 17 year old who said she was raped, her colleagues didn't seem unduly concerned
    "Barrister Mary Rose Gearty SC said that although barristers are not public figures, they are aware of the “potential for publicity to attach itself to any comment that can be made, even in an adjournment application. In order to function professionally for the most part we must forget about that potential, and focus on the job at hand.” Lawyers concerned over public backlash after underwear comments in rape trial
     
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  3. molly67

    molly67 Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting Kyle, didn't realise the sentence of 40 years is mandatory in Ireland whether you plead guilty or not. I was thinking back to another murder case in Scotland where the accused was sentenced to a mandatory 30 years and this was reduced by 3 years because he plead guilty. Then it was reduced by another 4 years after appeal as he had shown great remorse.

    I remember that case in Cork last year - It could be they will go down the route of 'focusing on job in hand' and worry about the consequences of victim shaming afterwards.

    I believe boy A's barrister is the top legal aid barrister in the country
     
  4. KyleDeverell

    KyleDeverell Active Member

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    While the actual sentence is mandatory with no judicial discretion, in practice, the prisoner will be released back into the community well before that. An advisory parole board will make recommendations to the minister who ultimately decides.
    The barristers in murder cases are generally top of their game and are well paid by the State to act. Criminal law is usually one of the easier areas of law to "break" into unlike Commercial or Insurance where large corporate entities want to be sure of getting their monies worth in advance.
     
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  5. Legally Bland

    Legally Bland Well-Known Member

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    I guess there was no evidence, or no reporting yesterday then?
     
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  6. Jim_M

    Jim_M Well-Known Member

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    I nearly forgot about this. And someone else may have better asked these questions.

    Why did the Gardai wait until the following day to start searching for this young girl? Granted, young AK was already gone from this Earth by the time the Gardai were notified. But they didn't know that! Not then, anyway.

    Okay. It's not the fault of the Gardai. They are following your laws. That favor the criminals, over the victims, and of course, their families. JMO from what I have witnessed here. Recalling these criminals spending the Holidays with their loving families. And yet, their families are victims too. Their little boys, will never be the same. It happens.

    Will the world ever learn the names of these monsters? Or will that remain part of this privacy thing?

    Not that it will affect me directly. But people in the UK might want to know. Anyone with potential future dealings with these two? Nah, they don't need to know.

    Wee bit o sarcasm there for you :)

    This was unspeakable. This was a true horror on this earth moment in time. That poor young girl. Ruthlessly stolen from this one existence. Utter sadness for our world.
     
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  7. Legally Bland

    Legally Bland Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like there was another male involved.
    ___________________

    Marce Lee-Gorman of Forensic Science Ireland said she found semen in two areas of a black strap top which was found near the 14 year old’s body in a derelict farmhouse on May 17th, 2018, three days after she went missing.

    She analysed the two areas and found DNA from skin cells and semen. The DNA matched Boy A and Ana.

    There was also DNA from a third unidentified source.

    Ms Lee-Gorman told Brendan Grehan SC, prosecuting, she considered two possibilities: first that the DNA was from Ana, Boy A and a third person or that it was from three unidentified persons.

    She judged that the first possibility is statistically “1,000 million” times more likely than the second.

    There were several areas of damage to Ana’s top, the witness said. Force would have been required to cause this damage and the top cannot be worn in its current condition.

    The areas of damage were analysed for skin cells belonging to someone other than Ana. Cells belonging to a male were found but it was not possible to determine their source, the court heard.

    She also outlined damage to a bra found at the scene. The front strap was torn apart, Ms Lee-Gorman said.

    That fabric is made from sturdy material, she said. “It would take a lot of manipulation and pulling and tugging to separate it. It was completely torn.”

    The hooks at the back were also stretched out and bent. A male DNA profile was found on the garment but its source could not be determined.

    DNA from an unidentified male was also found on Ana’s other underclothes, the witness said but its source could not be determined.

    No semen was found on the other garments. These items were also undamaged “aside from normal wear and tear.”

    Ana Kriégel trial told accused’s DNA found in semen staining
     
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  8. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    So this is strange - presumably they have a DNA profile from boy B?
     
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  9. Legally Bland

    Legally Bland Well-Known Member

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    In his first interview following his arrest, Boy B told gardaí that Boy A called to his house on the day Ana went missing ten days beforehand.

    He said he pleaded with him to call for Ana and despite his reluctance, he agreed to.

    As they walked to the park near Ana’s home in Leixlip, he told gardaí she showed him a photo of her tied to a chair. He said she told him one of her ex-boyfriends did it.

    When they met Boy A, he said he seemed surprised to see him and he walked behind them to give them some privacy.

    Jury in Ana Kriegel trial watch recorded interviews with two accused boys



    After a while, he said he decided to leave and while walking through the car park, he said he met Ana again and went up to her and said “hi”.

    He said she didn't say anything so he walked a bit faster to give her space.

    When he looked back at one point, he said she was gone so he just went straight home and did his homework.

    Jury in Ana Kriegel trial watch recorded interviews with two accused boys
     
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  10. Legally Bland

    Legally Bland Well-Known Member

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    Mr Justice Paul McDermott told the jurors he wanted to emphasise to them that the videos were being put forward by the prosecution as proof against Boy B. He said anything Boy B said about Boy A was not evidence against that boy.

    [...]

    Gardaí asked Boy B if he knew there were CCTV cameras in St Catherine's Park and where they were. The boy pointed out a number of locations.

    Gardaí told him there were a lot more cameras than that, although some were not working. They asked the boy if he was satisfied he had told them the truth. The boy said he was, but then said he was trying to remember if he had forgotten anything.

    Gardaí told him they would be playing the CCTV footage they had and told him it was his opportunity to tell the truth.

    When his statement was read back to him, the boy told them he thought one or two parts might be wrong.

    He said that when he had seen Ana while he was on the way back, he did not know if it was actually her.

    He said she was wearing all black with white markings on her shoulder so he suspected it was her.

    He also said he might have gone further with Boy A and Ana than he had originally said and pointed out a new point on the map for gardaí.

    Kriégel jury shown garda video of Boy B interviews
     
  11. Mind your biscuits

    Mind your biscuits Well-Known Member

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    And here we go, as soon as the cctv is mentioned, the story changes to fit with what is seen on cctv. Moo
     
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  12. KyleDeverell

    KyleDeverell Active Member

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    A BOY accused of murdering Ana Kriegel told garda interviewers that he thought of her as a "weirdo" and she wasn't liked because she was "different", a trial heard.

    Boy B also said that Boy A was "weird, not a rational thinker".

    The teen further told gardai that Boy A was "not really my friend since what happened".

    The two youths, aged 13 at the time, have pleaded not guilty to the murder of Ana Kriegel (14) at Glenwood House, Laraghcon, Clonee Road in Lucan on May 14 last year.

    Boy A has also denied a charge of aggravated sexual assault.

    This morning, the jury continued to hear the interviews which gardai conducted with Boy B at Finglas Garda Station on May 24, 2018.

    Present during the first and second interviews were Boy B, his mother, his solicitor David Powderly, Detective Garda Donal Daly and Detective Sergeant (now Inspector) Damien Gannon.

    Mr Justice Paul McDermott told the jury to bear in mind that anything Boy B said in his interviews with gardai about Boy A could not be used in the prosecution case against Boy A.

    During the first interview, Boy B said he called to Ana's house and when she came to the door she asked him what he wanted.

    "I replied '[Boy A] wants to see you", he said.

    "Once I said that she got her clothes, shoes and mobile phone and came out the door with me", he said.

    Boy B also told gardai that he was aware there was CCTV in the park, and he pointed out three areas where he said there were cameras.

    Boy B further said that Boy A "seemed surprised to see me" when he met him in the park.

    The jury has started to hear the second interview, which began at 15.02 on May 24, 2018. Gardai asked Boy B to describe Ana Kriegel.

    Boy B said Ana was not liked because she was "different" and "weird", he said.

    He said she was taller and more mature than other girls, and her breasts, posture and hips had developed more than other girls.

    She was a "lonely and sad person" and had been through depression quite a bit, he said.

    Boy B said Ana was a goth and dressed all in black, usually in "slutty clothes", like tight trousers, short shorts and t-shirts.

    He said Ana wore the kind of clothes that made her breasts and hips stand out and it appeared, to him, that she wanted people to look at her by the clothes she was wearing.

    She was also anti-social and "if you asked her to hang out she'd probably say no", Boy B said.

    The trial continues before Mr Justice McDermott and a jury of eight men and four women.


    Online Editors
    Ana Kriegel murder trial: Schoolgirl wasn't liked because she was 'different', one of the accused told gardai - Independent.ie
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  13. KyleDeverell

    KyleDeverell Active Member

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    A boy accused of the murder of 14-year-old Ana Kriégel last year admitted to gardaí in interview that he had lied to them and made up a “fake story” about his exact movements on the day she went missing, his trial has heard.

    He told gardaí he lied because he was “scared and nervous” and could not really remember where he walked with Ana that day.

    The jury have been watching video recordings of the boy’s third and fourth interviews with gardaí which were conducted following his arrest on May 24th , 2018, a week after Ana’s body was found in an abandoned farmhouse in Lucan, Co Dublin.

    Detectives spent the third interview showing the boy CCTV footage from the area where Ana was last seen on May 14th.

    The boy, Boy B, had told investigators he had called to Ana at her home at about 4.55pm before they both went to meet his co-accused, Boy A, at a location in nearby St Catherine’s Park.

    After showing him several pieces of CCTV footage from the area, gardaí put it to the boy that his account of his movements did not match what was picked up by several CCTV cameras in the area.

    Gardaí said the footage showed it would have been impossible for Boy A to be in the location where Boy B claimed to have met him with Ana at a particular time.

    No tricks
    “Do you see how this is inconsistent? By that I mean it doesn’t match up with what you’ve told us so far,” an interviewing garda put it to the boy.

    The boy responded: “Yes, I see.”

    The detective asked him: “So will you please please please tell us the truth? “Just the truth, that’s all we want. Just the truth. There’s no tricks here.”

    After a pause, the boy’s solicitor told gardaí: “ I think he’s remained silent so.”

    At another point in the interview, Boy B said “strange, very strange” when shown CCTV of his co-accused walking in a certain direction in the park.

    After the interview, Boy B was allowed rest for the night before the fourth interview which began at 10.11am on May 25th.

    He started the interview by saying: “I’m going to retell the story of what actually happened. What I told you yesterday was a lie.”

    The boy’s solicitor said his client had a chance to reflect on matters overnight.

    Boy B went on to tell gardaí he and Ana met Boy A at a different location to the one he previously stated.

    “This is where I actually met [Boy A]. While I was walking up to the BMX park I asked Ana to bring out her phone and show me the time. The time was 5.14.

    “I let Ana talk with [Boy A] for a while. I stayed back for a metre to two to let them have some privacy while they talked.”

    The boy said he did not know what they said to each other. “A little bit later I got bored and left. I went behind the changing rooms and got a drink. Then I went straight home. That’s the truth.”

    ‘I made it up’
    “You gave us an account and we checked it with you and you were adamant about certain facts and certain routes,” an interviewing detectives put it to the boy.

    “I suppose you want an explanation as to why?” the boy replied. “The reason I told you the fake story was because the first time I was with the guards on Tuesday I couldn’t really remember where I went so I made it up.

    “I was scared and nervous. Once I made it up I thought to myself ‘well I can’t go back, I made a statement’. So I kept to the story.”

    The detective told Boy B he had to tell them absolutely everything that happened that day.

    “Were you in the house that day?” the detective asked, referring to the abandoned farmhouse where Ana’s body was found.

    “No, on the day I wasn’t. But I was before,” Boy B replied. He agreed with the detective he had earlier said he visited the house with his friends the previous year.

    “You know this location,” the detective said. “The only thing I find surprising is you described it in quite good details. I know you’re a bright young man, you’re an intelligent young man but you described it in great detail.”

    The detective told the boy it wasn’t until he was “confronted with facts that you told the truth. Now you have to tell me everything, I mean absolutely everything.”

    It is the prosecution’s case that Boy B lured Ana from her home at 5pm on May 14th, 2018 on the pretence of meeting Boy A, who she was “interested” in.

    Boy A then allegedly violently sexually assaulted and murdered her in the derelict farmhouse as Boy B watched.

    Boy A has pleaded not guilty to murder and sexual assault “involving serious violence” on May 14th, 2018, at Glenwood House, Laraghcon, Clonee Road, Lucan in Dublin.

    Boy B has pleaded not guilty to murder on the same date.

    The accused, who were 13 at the time of the alleged offence, are now both 14.

    The trial at the Central Criminal Court continues with evidence of Boy B’s interviews before a jury of eight men and four women.

    The detective told the boy it wasn’t until he was “confronted with facts that you told the truth. Now you have to tell me everything, I mean absolutely everything.”

    It is the prosecution’s case that Boy B lured Ana from her home at 5pm on May 14th, 2018 on the pretence of meeting Boy A, who she was “interested” in.

    Boy A then allegedly violently sexually assaulted and murdered her in the derelict farmhouse as Boy B watched.

    Boy A has pleaded not guilty to murder and sexual assault “involving serious violence” on May 14th, 2018, at Glenwood House, Laraghcon, Clonee Road, Lucan in Dublin.

    Boy B has pleaded not guilty to murder on the same date.

    The accused, who were 13 at the time of the alleged offence, are now both 14.


    The trial at the Central Criminal Court continues with evidence of Boy B’s interviews before a jury of eight men and four women.
    Ana Kriégel accused admitted ‘fake story’ about movements, trial hears
     
  14. Legally Bland

    Legally Bland Well-Known Member

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    Edit: Just duplicated above post.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  15. KyleDeverell

    KyleDeverell Active Member

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    A boy accused of the murder of 14-year-old Ana Kriégel told gardaí he gave tape found at the crime scene to his co-accused shortly before her murder, his trial has heard.

    The boy, Boy B, also admitted to gardaí that he had lied to them in a previous interview and made up a “fake story” about his exact movements on the day Ana went missing.

    The jury has been watching video recordings of the boy’s third and fourth interviews with gardaí which were conducted following his arrest on May 24, 2018, a week after Ana’s body was found in an abandoned farmhouse in Lucan, Co. Dublin.

    During the fourth interview gardaí showed Boy B photographs of the abandoned house, including the room where Ana’s body was found with a length insulation tape partially wrapped around her neck.

    When detectives showed Boy B a picture of the room where Ana died, he held his head in his hands and said: “Jesus. One of my closest friends.” Asked to clarify, he said he was referring to Boy A and not Ana.

    He then said “Wait a minute. Holy ****. Oh my God. I gave [BOY A]tape a couple of weeks ago. I use it a lot whenever I’m making something.

    “I gave it to [BOY A]because he wanted to use it for something he was making. He asked for a pile of it because he was doing a really big pole kind of weapon. So I gave him a used up roll, half used up roll.

    “I gave it to him. Here it is. Construction tape. I use it a lot when I’m making grips and stuff. I like to make stuff.”

    He said he gave the tape to Boy A “a week or two ago”. He denied bringing it to the abandoned house himself.

    Gardaí showed Boy B a photograph of Boy A’s boots which they said had Ana’s blood on them.

    “I don’t want to believe [BOY A]did it,” he said. “If those are [BOY A’s]boots that means either he did it or he was standing by.”

    Detectives also showed the boy pictures of a stick and a stone block. Boy B said he presumed these were the murder weapons as he had read in the newspapers Ana was killed with “a rock and some sticks”.

    He said “this is crazy” when shown a picture of the stick. When a detective told the boy Ana’s blood and hair were bound on the block, Boy B responded: “Jesus Christ. It’s getting worse and worse.”

    Kriégel accused admitted giving tape found at crime scene to co-accused, trial hears
     
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  16. KyleDeverell

    KyleDeverell Active Member

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    So Boy B's interviews cannot be used in evidence against Boy A. For someone who is one of his "closest friends", Boy B is certainly making life difficult for Boy A. That the DNA at the scene could not be pinned down to more than that of "male" does not specifically exclude Boy B I would argue. Obviously I defer to someone with more knowledge of the area.
     
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  17. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    what an awful case
     
  18. KyleDeverell

    KyleDeverell Active Member

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    A boy accused of the murder of 14-year-old Ana Kriégel told gardaí in his fifth and final interview after his arrest that he heard Ana scream from an abandoned house where her body was later found.

    During ten hours of interview, the accused, Boy B, gave gardaí varying versions of his movements before Ana’s murder.

    He had initially told gardaí he called to Ana’s house on behalf of his co-accused, Boy A. He said he walked with her to a location in nearby St Catherine’s Park where they met Boy A. He said he left Boy A and Ana a short time later and didn’t see them again.

    In interview four, which was conducted on the second day of his detention in Finglas Garda Station, Boy B admitted to gardaí he had “lied” and made up a “fake story” about where he and Ana first met Boy A in the park.

    In interview five, gardaí put it to the boy they had a witness who saw a youth walking through a field towards the abandoned house. “I believe that was you going into the field,” Detective Garda Donal Daly said.

    The boy responded: “Okay. I did go into the field but that was to look around, that’s all. I went into the field. I crossed the ditch. I went back. That’s all. I didn’t go any further.”

    Det Gda Daly told the boy: “You’re making this up as you go along , I have to say. I’m presenting facts and evidence to you and you’re changing your story to suit. You can’t keep doing this.”

    At that point Boy B asked his mother to leave the interview room. Det Gda Daly told him, because he was only 13, his mother had to remain.

    “You owe it to everyone to start telling the truth here. You owe it to your mam, to yourself, to tell the truth because unfortunately a girl has been brutally murdered.”

    Truth
    Boy B’s solicitor Barry Powderly suggested they take a break but Det Gda Daly said they were at a crucial stage.

    “The truth that’s all we want,” he told the boy.

    Boy B said: “Me, and Ana, we went through the fields and brought her to the house. I didn’t go in the house. I just went with because I thought he wanted to go somewhere private. Then I left.”

    He said Boy A went into the house with Ana. “I left and that’s when I heard the scream and then I ran.”

    He continued: “I ran back, I went to the tap and I had a little drink, sat down and then I started walking. And then I went home. I didn’t go in the house. I was just tagging along.”

    “So and Ana were in the house when you ran away?” the detective asked.

    “Yea, I was walking away when I heard the scream.”

    The detective asked the boy for more detail. “I know its hard but you have to.”

    Boy B broke down crying and said: “It was a really strong scream. I could hear if from outside the house and just when the scream was about to end it got muffled.”

    The detective asked him why he ran. “Because I was scared. I thought that would handle the situation because he’s big and strong. I thought that and Ana got attacked or something. I thought that would be able to handle the situation because he’s big, he’s strong, he’s tall.”

    “Who did you hear scream?” the detective asked.

    “I heard Ana scream.”

    Strong scream
    The detective told him: “I know this is hard. Tell me absolutely everything. Take your mind back to that moment when you’re in that field. Where exactly were you when you heard that scream?”

    The boy identified a spot halfway between the house and a bush.

    “It was a really strong scream. I knew that it was Ana but since was there she’d be fine. He’d protect her. The scream was like really loud. Just before it ended it got muffled, like someone covered her mouth.”

    Boy B continued: “I ran home. I thought everything would be alright. would protect her.”

    Det Gda Daly then agreed to pause the interview and take a break for 30 minutes.

    The trial at the Central Criminal continues on Thursday when the jury of eight men and four women will watch the rest of interview five.

    It is the prosecution case that Boy B lured Ana from her home at 5pm on May 14th, 2018 on the pretence of meeting Boy A, who Ana was “interested” in. Boy A then allegedly violently sexually assaulted and murdered her in the derelict farmhouse as Boy B watched.

    Boy A has pleaded not guilty to the murder and sexual assault “involving serious violence” of Ana Kriégel on May 14th, 2018, at Glenwood House, Laraghcon, Clonee Road, Lucan in Dublin.

    Boy B has pleaded not guilty to the murder of the girl on the same date.

    The accused were 13 at the time of the alleged offence and are 14 now.

    Kriégel accused told gardaí he heard Ana scream from abandoned house, trial hears
     
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  19. nothinonyou

    nothinonyou Well-Known Member

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    There must be some evidence against boy B that he is charged with watching the attack? is it the CCTV?
     
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  20. Mind your biscuits

    Mind your biscuits Well-Known Member

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    Imagine being his mother, sitting next to him and listening to that! :eek:
     

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