Ireland Ireland - Sligo, WhtMale, 50-70, aka 'Peter Bergmann', prostate cancer, Jun'09

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Estelle1, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    I got a response:
    (Google translation)
    If the man wanted to remain incognito - and he was successful - he probably chose a name and a place of residence at random, which had no connection with his previous life. In any case, that would be a logical procedure. And that he has not been identified so far, despite the photo, previous illnesses and internet "popularity", indicates, that he came from a corner of the earth, in which the authorities did not look for him and / or from an environment, in which nobody missed him.
    There are also German language islands outside of Europe. I do not know how good the hotel employee was in assigning a foreign language accent.

    Dr. Bergmann's books were made public after 2009 and only 2 were made public circa 15 years before in a smaller edition*. These 2 books' content, which could have been known by our PB, doesn't resemble his own fate. No connection recognizable.
    * "Dicke Liebe" and "Tore des Bösen"
     
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  2. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    I got a response:

    (Google translation)
    If the man wanted to remain incognito - and he was successful - he probably chose a name and a place of residence at random, which had no connection with his previous life. In any case, that would be a logical procedure. And that he has not been identified so far, despite the photo, previous illnesses and internet "popularity", indicates, that he came from a corner of the earth, in which the authorities did not look for him and / or from an environment, in which nobody missed him.
    There are also German language islands outside of Europe. I do not know how good the hotel employee was in assigning a foreign language accent. (bbm)
    -.-.-
    Dr. Bergmann's books were made public after 2009 and only 2 were made public circa 15 years before in a smaller edition*. These 2 books' content, which could have been known by our PB, doesn't resemble his own fate. No connection recognizable.
    * "Dicke Liebe" and "Tore des Bösen"
     
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  3. annemc2

    annemc2 her name is Suzanne Marie Sevakis

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    @FromGermany not stupid at all! That's a great idea and very cool that you wrote him and got a response. It kind of reminds me of "Lyle Stevik." It turns out that the deceased really had no connection to the book that anyone could tell and it looks like the name was pretty much randomly selected. It was an impetus for me to read a book that I wouldn't have otherwise read, even as someone who enjoys JCO's novels!
     
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  4. moonriverfarm

    moonriverfarm Well-Known Member

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    This case reminds me of the case of Mostly Harmless/Denim, who was found dead in a tent in Collier County, Florida two years ago. His identity remains a mystery. He has a thread here on WS.
     
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  5. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    North forensic artist provides assistance in bid to solve 11-year mystery of Peter Bergmann

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    A north forensic artist is helping a bid to identify a man who mysteriously died in Ireland more than a decade ago.

    Hew Morrison, from Inverness, has helped create a detailed post-mortem depiction of the man who went by the alias of Peter Bergmann when he visited the seaport town of Sligo in northwest Ireland in June 2009.

    The man used the alias to check into the Sligo City Hotel where he stayed during his visit.

    Staff at the hotel reported the man as having a strong German accent.

    The unidentified man was captured on CCTV throughout the town over the course of his stay, however, his actions and intentions are still not known more than 11 years on.

    His body was found at Rosses Point Beach, a popular recreation and fishing area, on the morning of June 16.
    ---
    Any information that could assist in identifying the man is asked to be shared with Sligo Garda on +353719157000 or by logging a case with Interpol through their website.

    North forensic artist provides assistance in bid to solve 11-year mystery of Peter Bergmann | Press and Journal
     
  6. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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  7. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    http://www.krebsdaten.de/Krebs/EN/C..._germany_2009_2010.pdf?__blob=publicationFile
    1.2 Current developments in cancer registration in Germany Since 2009, all new cases of cancer nationwide are being systematically registered across the whole of Germany on the basis of regional legislation. As a consequence, the current situation for populationbased cancer registration is to be viewed as very good. In nine federal states the estimated degree of registration for 2010 is over 90%. This means we now have reliable data on new cases of cancer for a population of more than 50 million. Across Germany approximately 90% of the estimated new cases for 2010 have actually been recorded in the registries – ten years previously the figure was still under 40%. In the next few years of reporting, this percentage will increase further solely because of the phased establishment of the Baden-Wuerttemberg cancer registry up to the end of 2011. Internationally, barely any other country of comparable population size has achieved such a high rate of registration to date
     
  8. ks-ch

    ks-ch Active Member

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    Is there a genetic genealogist involved?
     
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  9. tas121694

    tas121694 New Member

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    Hi everyone! I’m new here, but I’ve been pretty fascinated by the Peter Bergmann case for a while now. I figured I’d finally type up my thoughts on the case:


    HIS COUNTRY OF ORIGIN

    Let’s begin with the belongings that were found with the deceased. According to the Irish Times 2019 article on the case (which I’ll be using as a primary reference for most of my thoughts here), here is a complete list of the belongings that were found:
    • Black leather Finn Comfort shoes, size 44, manufactured in 2002 in Germany
    • Dark socks
    • A black leather C&A jacket
    • Navy C&A chino trousers
    • A black sleeveless Tommy Hilfiger jumper
    • A black leather belt, called Key West USA, made in Italy
    • €140 in notes and €9 in coins, in an envelope
    • A packet of tissues
    • 55mg of asprin tablets, made by Bayer, manufactured in the Czech Republic and distributed in Germany
    • Hansaplast sticking plasters
    • A bar of hotel soap in an unopened blue plastic wrapper printed with Mild Soap, Hotel Care (when subsequently investigated, it was not of a brand made or stocked in any hotels in Ireland)
    To me, the belongings suggest very strongly that the deceased is from Germany, because 1) his Finn Comfort shoes were manufactured in Germany, 2) his aspirin tablets were distributed in Germany, 3) he possessed Hansaplast sticking plasters (Hansaplast is a subsidiary of the German multinational company Beiersdorf AG, and their products are very popular in Germany), and 4) he possessed two articles of C&A clothing (C&A has by far its largest percentage of stores in Germany—467 locations in Germany, versus 169 locations in the next-closest country, France).

    It would be interesting to learn what hotel chains are the biggest users of the particular brand of hotel soap that was found amongst the deceased’s belongings. Based on what I’ve outlined above, I would not at all be surprised to learn that the soap is commonly stocked by German hotels.

    Much has been said—both here and on other forums—of the false address that the deceased used when checking into his hotel in Sligo. In my opinion, it is clear that the deceased went to great lengths to disguise his identity, even going so far as to remove the labels from his clothing. If he put so much thought & planning into disguising his identity, why would he carelessly provide a Vienna address with a misspelled street name (“Ainstettersn”) and a nonexistent postal code (“4472”)? I believe that, if he hailed from elsewhere in Austria (or had spent significant time there), he would have provided a more “believable” false address, with an actual Viennese street name & postal code. For instance, I am an American, and if I were brainstorming a false address in New York City, I’d instinctually make it sound realistic based on my experience with the city (i.e. I’d say “420 5th Avenue,” rather than “12 Apperkt Street”).

    I believe that Austria was a red herring, because it is a Germanic country, and the deceased knew that his German accent could plausibly be considered to be Austrian by foreigners.


    HIS ENTRY INTO IRELAND

    To me, one of the most mysterious aspects of this case is how the deceased arrived in Ireland. No one knows how he mysteriously appeared at the bus depot in Derry on June 12th, 2009.

    Many have asked, in frustration, why the authorities didn’t simply check passenger manifests for inbound flights during the preceding days—but the Irish Times article states that “the name he gave did not appear on any passenger manifest, and for foot passengers on ferries from Britain there were no identity checks.” The article also states that, at one point, as many as 10 investigators were working on the case. I find it highly unlikely that they wouldn’t have scoured passenger manifests for the entire week, looking for any evidence of the deceased’s arrival in Ireland. This, in conjunction with the fact that there were no identity checks for passengers arriving on ferries from Britain, suggests to me that the deceased must have arrived on a ferry from the mainland UK.

    Assuming that the deceased did indeed fly to an airport in the UK, and ultimately took a ferry to Derry, the real question becomes: did the Irish authorities ever cross-reference the name “Peter Bergmann” with British passenger manifests/entry logs for the weeks leading up to Bergmann’s arrival in Derry? I am not entirely sure whether the UK uses some sort of national, electronic database to track all arrivals at points of entry—but given that this was 8 years after 9/11 (and the corresponding tightening of security protocols), I would guess that they did have such a system in place.


    OCCAM’S RAZOR

    The simplest explanation is most often the correct explanation, right? Well… how do we explain that the deceased doesn’t seem to match any missing persons in Germany (or elsewhere in Europe)?

    I suppose it is possible that Bergmann was a fugitive, or a spy, or the son of a high-ranking Nazi—and for whatever reason, he chose to hide his identity even in death. But I think that these explanations miss the mark, for a variety of reasons. For instance, if he were a fugitive, why didn’t other European police forces immediately recognize him (and why aren’t his DNA & fingerprints on file anywhere)? To me, these more "exotic" explanations defy Occam’s Razor.

    I think that the deceased's actions during his time at the hotel (including his purchasing 82c stamps—which would have allowed for letters to be mailed internationally— and his regularly leaving the hotel with the purple bag that was empty each time he returned) suggest that he did, indeed, take the time to notify those close to him that he would not be returning. It is likely for that reason that he was never officially reported missing in his country of origin.

    Given the advanced state of his illness, it is almost impossible that he was unaware of his condition, and those closest to him likely noticed his physical deterioration in the months leading up to his disappearance as well. In my opinion, the simplest explanation is that he wanted to "go out on his own terms," so to speak, and wanted to spare his loved ones the grief & expenses of a funeral/burial. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'll ever develop a satisfactory hypothesis as to why he was so determined to disguise his identity—especially if he intended for his corpse to drift off to sea, never to be found (thereby achieving his goal of sparing his loved ones from grief & expenses). But I do believe that he notified his loved ones of his impending demise, and I doubt that he was as mysterious a figure in life (i.e. a spy or fugitive) as he was in death.

    Looking forward to reading everyone's thoughts!
     
  10. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Great first post, welcome to Ws tas121694!
     
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  11. tas121694

    tas121694 New Member

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  12. Warwick1991

    Warwick1991 Well-Known Member

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    The gold tooth is a possible anomaly, even though everything else is convincingly German. After WWII, gold teeth were common in the Eastern Bloc, either in the former USSR or East Germany. Perhaps this unknown man had originally been an East German or a Soviet citizen.
     
  13. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Unite...love will always win.

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    Hi and welcome @tas121694 Thank you for your post. I can see you seriously give it some thoughts. Especially the theory about him notifying loved ones as a reason he wasn't officially filed as a missing person, is something to consider. I sure would love to know the content of his letters, if he send them. I guess he knew death was "around the corner" considering his illness and physical condition. He could have mentioned that and said his goodbyes, but didn't disclose his whereabouts. I still wonder why he was in Ireland in this particular place (Sligo). Somehow I feel this must be of some significance. Why going through the motion, traveling there, erasing his traces. Dying in, lets say Germany, would have been much more "convenient". According to the coroner his dead was not a classical salt water drowning and not a homicide. We don't know if he wanted to end his life persé, there and then. IMO a suicide is still questionable. Maybe he knew the cold water would trigger an (other) heart attack?
     
  14. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Unite...love will always win.

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    DPG Media Privacy Gate

    For the record, this was reported just 2 hours ago; After 16 years the remains of Johannes Hubertis Kwist are found in France.

    The remains of Johannes Hubertis Kwist from Tholen, Zeeland, who had been missing for sixteen years, were found in Dunkirk (in northwestern France). This has been determined through DNA research, the police reports. Kwist was the Zeeuw who had been on the list of missing persons the longest.

    Stoffelijke resten van vermiste Tholenaar gevonden in Frankrijk

    No further details

    Even when the French police file is in the Netherlands, it is not yet certain that further details about the discovery of the body will be disclosed. The police will only do this if there are indications of a crime. When those clues are not there, information about how the remains were found is only shared with family members.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  15. 1stgreenisgold

    1stgreenisgold New Member

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    I have been researching this case for a little bit, and I discovered something interesting. Apart of his belongings was a packaged hotel soap with the name "Mild soap, Hotel Care" on it. When investigated, it was found to not be produced in Ireland. I looked up and found more information on it, and it appears to have been manufactured or given out in a Spanish speaking country, likely Spain based on this sellers dialect.
    Pastilla de jabon -- Hotel Care -- Mild Soap -- Nueva
    This soap is the exact one seen in photos of evidence collected from "Bergmann's" belongings.
    I don't exactly know where to go from here, but I found this fact very interesting.
     
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  16. 1stgreenisgold

    1stgreenisgold New Member

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    There was footage on CCTV camera of the mailing area after he purchased the stamps, but it seems it was corrupted and no longer available. The stamps were not found with his belongings.
     
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  17. Rootje

    Rootje Well-Known Member

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    i’m so glad he’s found. do you have any ideas on how he died? they don’t plan on sharing any more info, so a crime is ruled out. suicide?
     
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  18. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Unite...love will always win.

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    Me too @Rootje BTW good to see you. I don't see any more reporting after October 5. My guess is this was not a crime. He was found in Duinkerke, France but the circumstances are unknown...so it's hard to tell what might be the cause of death. We don't even know when the remains were found if I'm right...could be years ago and they just started to investigate again this year, exhuming him and using DNA.
     
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  19. ks-ch

    ks-ch Active Member

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    Excuse me, I reread the thread and this sentence caught my attention. What does the speaker imply? Islands? That does not make any sense; countries, probably. And outside of Europe, to be honest, no one really speaks German. Some implanted variations (e.g. Texas German) are normally spoken within that linguistic community and simultaneously a person speaks English without an accent because this is an official language. I hope this makes sense, so we can safely assume the individual was from a European German-speaking country.
     
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  20. coffeeandacig

    coffeeandacig Well-Known Member

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    They're not actually islands ks-ch. It's a term used to describe areas within a country, often isolated or simply retaining their own customs.
    Also, there is a country called Namibia in Africa where German is an official language. One of several, I'm sure. But, as far as I can tell, Namibia hasn't been mentioned. It would explain possessions from Spain, if he made the journey north from the African continent to Europe through Spain.
     
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