Is Casey Anthony Possibly Innocent?

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by PAXIMUS, May 20, 2011.

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  1. PAXIMUS

    PAXIMUS Registered user

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    This is not a debate thread so if you believe she is guilty please post those sentiments in other threads where such discussions take place. This thread is for those who feel she might be innocent OF FIRST DEGREE MURDER, you may feel she is guilty of other lesser included charges OR innocent of everything. This is a place to come and chat with others who may share that same sentiment.

    Tell us why you think she is innocent of first degree murder or any murder at all and what you think really happened to Caylee.

    All theories relating to Casey Anthony's possible innocence of first degree murder are welcomed and encouraged here, those who disagree wrt her innocence should not post here to try and rebut the theories wrt to her possible innocence.

    Once the thread gets going a bit I will offer some of my own views wrt to the possibility that maybe she is innocent.

    I will start off by saying I indeed think she is innocent of first degree murder simply because I havent seen any evidence to prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of premeditated first degree murder.


    Please offer your opinions for the sake of open and honest discussion only.
     
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  3. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I think there is a difference between the heading on this thread and the question you are asking. In other words, very very few people who look at the info we know so far are going to say she is 'INNOCENT,' imo.

    However, you are asking if people might think she is innocent of FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

    I think it was most likely a rage killing. She was very angry at her mother after the fight on Fathers day and the mothers threat to take custody of the child and kick Casey out of the house forever. So in that red zone state I think she lashed out at Caylee.

    But I think the computer searches about neckbreaking and chloroform and household weapons were with her folks in mind. I think she was premeditating their eventual murder, but snapped and killed her baby in a rage. I doubt the state will lay that theory out however.

    So I guess I agree somewhat with your statement, that she may be innocent of first
    degree murder---but she is far from INNOCENT, imo.
     
  4. OneLostGrl

    OneLostGrl I'm going against the grain- I'm going sane

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    I can't say I think she's innocent but I can say that I am not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty. I'm waiting till trial when I can hear all the facts and look at all the evidence
     
  5. missy_g

    missy_g New Member

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    I don't think it was a premeditated murder. It was either an accident or she flipped out.

    Although partying after it happened and not reporting her daughter missing throws up a lot of red flags. So does blaming it on a nonexistant person
     
  6. PAXIMUS

    PAXIMUS Registered user

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    This is where I stand also, right now she is innocent and can the state prove she is guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt? I dont think they can and I have all the evidence that one is able to see without being part of the case itself.
     
  7. gamom

    gamom New Member

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    I shared your belief of her not being guilty of PREMEDITATED murder. As of right now I still have not heard evidence to say she planned to KILL Caylee. The cholorform searches are not enough for me to say she wanted to MURDER her child. Since Caylee's neck was not broken according to Dr. G...the search is irrevelant for me as well. The duct tape is where I get stuck sometimes (no pun intended). I think we can all agree there is never a good reason to place duct tape over a toddlers mouth. Unfortunately, I have been in close contact with children in the foster care system and I have seen some extremely sad abuse cases. I waiver between the duct tape being a cruel punishment or attempt to keep Caylee quite or muffle her cries. As bad as it looks, I can't say she attempted to MURDER her (based on what I know now) but I CAN say that whatever happened to Caylee, the tape over her mouth and her mom not knowing or reporting where her kid was for over 31 days (so she says) is definately BEYOND a reasonable doubt a form of aggravated child abuse.

    Now..that being said, KC lives in FLORIDA. In Florida, the state does not need to prove PREMEDIATION. They just need to prove that Caylee died (yes) in her mothers care or lack there of (yes) and that there was abuse (yes, duct tape and they may even be able to prove cholorform) THAT IS ALL THEY NEED FOR FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

    A simular cases was recently tried and a mother was convicted. The appeal lost. Taken from Florida case law: Lewis vs. State March 2010(the link provided at end of post.) Snipped form case:

    In Florida, a defendant may be convicted of first-degree murder if the unlawful killing of a human being is 1) perpetrated from a premeditated design to cause the death of a human being; 2) caused by a person perpetrating certain enumerated felonies or 3) caused by the distribution of certain specified controlled substances. See ยง 782.04(1)(a)1.-3., Fla. Stat. (2007). The second category is commonly referred to as the “felony murder statute,” which provides:(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:

    2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
    h. Aggravated child abuse,

    Snipped for space
    * * *
    is murder in the first degree and constitutes a capital felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082.

    Now get this...if further states in the conclusion:

    The plain, unambiguous language of the statute demonstrates that the legislature intended that a defendant who kills a child during the perpetration of the crime of aggravated child abuse may be charged and convicted of both aggravated child abuse and felony murder, regardless of the number of acts of abuse which caused the child’s death. - end of snip

    So all of these testimonies about how KC loved Caylee and was MOTY means nothing. That state just has to show ONE single act of abuse. Two words "DUCT TAPE" The case law and the news story about the other case is posted below. In that case the mother was sentenced to LWOP and her appeals were denied. It took the jury 2 hours to vote guilty. I am interested to see how the SA presents the evidence.


    http://video.onset.freedom.com/newsherald/l20t9f-050710lewis.pdf
     
  8. Mysteeri

    Mysteeri New Member

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    When it comes to first degree murder, I`m waiting for an explanation of the duct tape.

    Edit. Thanks gamom for that useful post.
     
  9. Zoe Bogart

    Zoe Bogart Let's not ask for the Moon, we have the Stars

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    Your title is a misnomer. Had I known what the thread was really about, I probably wouldn't have opened it. According to Florida statutes, what happened to Caylee is considered First Degree Murder. If I were on the jury, I'd have to follow the law. Thanks to gamom for bringing it here. Remember one doesn't have to contemplate murder for months, one only has to think about murdering for seconds before the deed, making it premeditated. I'll respect your wishes, PAXIMUS, and bow out now. :seeya:

    This post has all the reasons why I can't believe ICA to be "innocent". It's a great way to refresh one's recall, if one wants to weigh all options:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6517756&postcount=276"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Legal Questions for our VERIFIED Lawyers #3[/ame]
     
  10. claudicici

    claudicici Active Member

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    Hi Pax :) ...as always good to see you posting here...
    ...before Gamon's post I would have said that I'm not sure if it was premeditated 1st degree murder but under those guidelines I believe it was.
    But I came to that conclusion after years and years of following the case .In my mind I know what KC was thinking ,I have made up my mind in my mind if that makes sense.I have made up my mind because of the psychology involved in that family and that's also what makes this case so interesting to me and I can't get away from it.
    Now if I was on the jury and I would only hear the evidence the state presents I would most likely have reasonable doubt.
    The subtle things that took away all doubt for me,like myspace messages and the video of Caylee's 2nd birthday,I doubt they would even come up during the trial.
    Anyways even though I think KC is guilty I don't think this is a death penalty case.
    It makes sense now after Gamon's post but I still don't understand what makes KC so different from all the mothers that sadly kill their babies and are not on death row?
     
  11. gamom

    gamom New Member

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    Anyways even though I think KC is guilty I don't think this is a death penalty case.
    It makes sense now after Gamon's post but I still don't understand what makes KC so different from all the mothers that sadly kill their babies and are not on death row QUOTE]


    BBM Completely agree with you. I think the manner in which she hid the body and acted afterwards is definately "serial killer" inl ike. But other than that, I would agree to what makes her different? Sometimes it is the state you live in. If you are gonna kill someone, don't do it in TEXAS and FLORIDA. I feel that she should get life. But if the state can lay out how henious the crime was and how much Caylee suffered..who knows she might get DP. If proven beyond a reasonable doubt. When I mentioned this to My hubby who does not even follow this case..I mentioned that I did not think it was a DP case. Here said and I qoute "If they prove that the little baby was alive in that trunk with tape on her face, in the middle of July. Left alone to suffer and gasp for every breath of air, how can that NOT be a DP case? She was burried alive"

    That is the first time I thought she could get death. It really depends on what the state says. I have always wondered why they seem so sure.
     
  12. smart blonde

    smart blonde Websleuths Member

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    Even with all we know, I believe the state knows more. I think there will be a few 'bombshells' dropped in that courtroom that we haven't even thought of yet.

    I trust that the state brought forth the charge of First Degree Murder because they know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that that is what happened.

    It would be so much easier for the prosecution to just pursue Life Without Parole, but the fact that they are pushing for the Death Penalty, makes me certain their evidence is solid and convincing.
     
  13. PAXIMUS

    PAXIMUS Registered user

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    Hey CiCi so glad to see you again. Its a little late for me but a lot of talk of the duct tape. The duct tape is highly circumstantial and doesnt prove anything IMO, it can link anyone in the Anthony household or anyone with access to that houshold to the death and not JUST Casey. IMO the duct tape possibly serves as a staging device, that is to say someone, whomever killed her, after tried to make it look like an abduction which also jives with her being put in a trash bag and dumped in the woods, The duct tape simply cannot be tied any more directly to Casey than it can George, Cindy or Lee. And that being the case, one could seed reasonable doubt from that alone.


    Also there was talk upthread about Casey texting her friends complaining about the horrible smell in the car, its possible she did smell something and had no idea what it was, perhaps whomever killed the child put her in the trunk without Casey knowing, as a means of framing her or further redirecting LEO's attention away from them and on to someone else ie Casey. Again I dont necessarily believe all of this but it is POSSIBLE and therefore, in good conscience, I would not be able to utlize such evidence to coem back with a guilty verdict because it doesnt matter what I BELIEVE or what my perceptions of those things are, all that matters is can the state prove she killed her, put duct tape on her and put her in a trash bag and discarded her in the woods? No they cannot, not beyond a reasonable doubt, I could stand in front of that jury all day long and sow enough reasonable doubt for at least a hung jury and maybe although unlikely, an acquittal. I am just of the opinion and I respect those who disagree, that the state has a tough case to prove AND IF the jurors are truly following the law and are not influenced by the media coverage of this case since day one a unanimous guilty verdict is a long shot.
     
  14. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    In saying that the duct tape and car smell could be attributed to one of the Anthony's, you are leaving out large swaths of evidence which would clear them of being the killers.

    The rest of the family was LOOKING FOR the baby. They told co-workers and family members that the child was missing and they began calling and texting Casey asking her to bring Caylee home. Casey even lied to them about where the child was. So you cannot just say " the tape was from the Anthony house so that makes it reasonable doubt."

    NO, because the other family members have been RULED OUT because of alibis, their behaviors, their testimonies, and witness testimonies,their cell phone pings, their work schedules, and a lack of motive. They were fully investigated.

    There is not a 'reasonable doubt' that George ore Cindy killed their grandchild child, and then Casey covered it up by partying and then sitting in jail for 3 years. NOBODY is going to believe that.

    Remember, it is by a REASONABLE doubt, and not by an extremely unlikely, almost laughable doubt.

    ETA; If I walk in the kitchen and see my youngest kid with chocolate all over his face and hands, and brownie crumbs on his lap and the floor, and he says," it was not me. It was Johnny, this is his kitchen too, and he framed me and ate all the brownies himself,"--then for the moment, there would be a reasonable doubt. Yes, it COULD have been the big brother...
    But then once I see that Johnny is not home from school yet, and the brownies were just taken from the oven, NO MORE reasonable doubt.

    And IMO, that is what pointing to George or Lee or Cindy is like. It is a dead end because they were fully investigated. And that avenue of 'reasonable doubt' will be shut down. imoo
     
  15. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Active Member

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    If the duck taped was placed after Caylee died would it still be first degree?
     
  16. Uicipher

    Uicipher New Member

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    Thread title is a bit deceiving but I like the idea. Personally I think she could be not guilty on premeditated or felony murder, but is probably guilty of manslaughter. The biggest problem I have though is we still have no idea what happened to Caylee, I don't buy the prosecution theory and I certainly don't believe the nanny story.
     
  17. Uicipher

    Uicipher New Member

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    It depends on how she died, I've considered the possibility the duct tape may have been part of the body disposal not the actual homicide.
     
  18. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    If some other perp did it, why has she been blaming it on the phantom and fictional nanny all of these years? If she was afraid of someone she could have them investigated and then arrested, if they are the true killer. WHY does she sit and lie about it?

    AND, if somebody else killed her child, why didn't she report the child missing? And why wasn't she mourning the child?
     
  19. magiemay

    magiemay New Member

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    I respect your opinion, just don't agree with you I would have to say you are most likely one of the very very few with your opinion. And KC would most likely be fortunate for you to be her council instead of the one she has. I will say it just does not hold water though as by KC"s own account she was the last one to have Caylee in her care. And she goes so far as to say who she left Caylee with. No one is going to get past that and the 31 days. It just will not work. The only hope I can see is if some one bought into the accident theory. And then she looks less than human with the 31 days. Not to mention blaming Zanny for it. You just can't make this stuff up!!!! jmo
     
  20. LucyLu

    LucyLu Former Member

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    Based on the facts so far I would have to vote 'not guilty' which is much different than innocent.

    However I think she did it one way or the other.
     
  21. Uicipher

    Uicipher New Member

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    It's not that simple though. Casey may not be guilty of first degree murder, but the jury may predispose themselves to that charge not based off her personality, but the fact that Casey very likely knows exactly what happened to Caylee. And it's difficult for a sane person to believe that someone who is guilty of a lesser charge would not come clean to avoid the death penalty.
     
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