Is Terri's Odd Behavior Part of Her Plan?

[BeanE]

Forgive me, BeanE, "sexual overtures" is more accurate and I mis-remembered what I had read (the comparison of her overtures to MC being similar to her overtures to the landscaper registered in my mind as sexting, but I suppose we don't know for sure.) But I guess we do know now that she had more than a casual landscaper/homemaker relationship with him, so I think it's relevant nonetheless. I will edit my original post, and still searching for a link to the second contention. Will delete my post if I can't find it, but I'm certain I read it.

Thanks, Snowball. Exchanging sexual pictures with the landscaper would have been a bombshell for sure!

 

[grayjay]

I would like to suggest this as playing devils advocate.

If you knew that you had absolutely nothing to do with this kid being missing and yet knew you had all sorts of crappy, illegal and messed up behavior that once revealed to the cops would totally confuse the investigation and take it off track, then you might not talk about such things simply because you KNOW you are innocent and you will be creating a false lead.

On the other hand she should fess up any and everything that she knows will eventually come out if she has nothing to do with it.

On the other hand doing so paints her more and more as a suspect so maybe the best thing she ought to do is shut up.?

If she is waiting for that tipping point, where the rumors and innuendo are worse than the actual misdeeds, well, she's got to have a pitload of stuff she's covering up. I know I couldn't take this without comment if the talk was about such a serious offense.

I think she just doesn't have that much respect for the system. Not meaning to give a diagnosis, but to me it just looks like she's being antisocial in the broader sense.

 

[Pensfan]

Is Terri's odd behavior part of her plan?

My opinion is "no"; her behavior defines her disorder.

Common symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder include:
-Breaking the law
-Deceitfulness, repeated lying
-Impulsivity
-Irritability and aggressiveness
-Disregard for safety of oneself or others
-Irresponsibility (eg, regarding family, work, finances)
-Lack of guilt over hurting others
-Inability to feel sympathy or empathy for others
-Lack of concern for consequences of actions/behavior
-Inability to learn from experience, modify behavior based on past outcomes or predicted future outcomes
-Cruelty to human or animals
-Destruction of property

http://psych.med.nyu.edu/conditions-we-treat/conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder#symptoms

 

[Chewy]

Because it's difficult to conjure up a reasonable envisioning of how that conversation would go with a landscaper one just hired.

:cow:

Which is why it's obvious that she didn't do it with a landscaper she "just hired" but one that she had developed a relationship of sorts with? :waitasec::waitasec: Still not getting why people are wondering how she could possible do something she very obviously didn't do? LOL:twocents:

 

[BeanE]

Is Terri's odd behavior part of her plan?

My opinion is "no"; her behavior defines her disorder.

Common symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder include:
-Breaking the law
-Deceitfulness, repeated lying
-Impulsivity
-Irritability and aggressiveness
-Disregard for safety of oneself or others
-Irresponsibility (eg, regarding family, work, finances)
-Lack of guilt over hurting others
-Inability to feel sympathy or empathy for others
-Lack of concern for consequences of actions/behavior
-Inability to learn from experience, modify behavior based on past outcomes or predicted future outcomes
-Cruelty to human or animals
-Destruction of property

http://psych.med.nyu.edu/conditions-we-treat/conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder#symptoms

Has Terri been diagnosed with NPD?

 

[Chewy]

Because it's difficult to conjure up a reasonable envisioning of how that conversation would go with a landscaper one just hired.

:cow:

Which is why it's obvious that she didn't do it with a landscaper she "just hired" but one that she had developed a relationship of sorts with? :waitasec::waitasec: Still not getting why people are wondering how she could possibly do something she very obviously didn't do? LOL:twocents:

 

[BeanE]

Which is why it's obvious that she didn't do it with a landscaper she "just hired" but one that she had developed a relationship of sorts with? :waitasec::waitasec: Still not getting why people are wondering how she could possibly do something she very obviously didn't do? LOL:twocents:

Maybe it's the dates on those landscaper ads that just have us confused...

 

[Pensfan]

Has Terri been diagnosed with NPD?

Most people with APD do not seek treatment, so it is doubtful.
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx36.htm
http://www.psychiatric-disorders.com/articles/personality-disorders/antisocial.php
http://www.livestrong.com/antisocial-personality-disorder-treatment/

 

[BeanE]

Most people with APD do not seek treatment, so it is doubtful.
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx36.htm
http://www.psychiatric-disorders.com/articles/personality-disorders/antisocial.php
http://www.livestrong.com/antisocial-personality-disorder-treatment/

Okay, I thought maybe I had missed something substantiating that she had been diagnosed. Thanks.

 

[txsvicki]

I think Terri's behavior years before Kyron went missing is even odder than hitting the gym and sexting knowing that it would all be seen. Why Terri would hook up with Kaine in the first place, take on his baby, and totally give up a career is crazy. She probably had the pick of many men back then. His statements seem odder to me than she does.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Is Terri's odd behavior part of her plan?

My opinion is "no"; her behavior defines her disorder.

Common symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder include:
-Breaking the law
-Deceitfulness, repeated lying
-Impulsivity
-Irritability and aggressiveness
-Disregard for safety of oneself or others
-Irresponsibility (eg, regarding family, work, finances)
-Lack of guilt over hurting others
-Inability to feel sympathy or empathy for others
-Lack of concern for consequences of actions/behavior
-Inability to learn from experience, modify behavior based on past outcomes or predicted future outcomes
-Cruelty to human or animals
-Destruction of property

http://psych.med.nyu.edu/conditions-we-treat/conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder#symptoms

I am not sure I agree with this analysis.

1. Breaking the law: The only time we have heard of her breaking the law is when she got her DUI FIVE YEARS ago. She is 40 years old.

2. I don't know that she has lied. Just because she can't pass a poly doesn't mean she is lying necessarily. Ruth Lunsford failed her poly. Steve Greone failed his poly. Neither one of them lied about a thing. Gary Ridgeway passed with flying colors. He lied.

3. Inpulsivity: Have no information that she is impulsive unless it is sexting MC.

4. Disregard for safety: Maybe at one time back in 2005 when she got the DUI and her son was in the car with her. No recent history of it that I am aware of.

5. Irresponsibility: I don't think anyone is irresponsible who is willing to care for a toddler that belonged to someone else along with her own children and do so for years. I don't see irresponsible people taking their time to volunteer at a school teaching children for almost three years.

6. Lack of guilt: Since I cant get into the head of Terri Horman nor have ever heard her speak, I don't know is she has guilt or not.

7. Lack of concern: There again I don't know if she is concerned or not. I do think she may be somewhat like Cynthia Somer and may exhibit behaviors that some do not consider the norm and may think it shows a lack of concern. Personally I think her behavior after Kaine left her and walked out with her child was to show Kaine and convince herself she could replace him in a heartbeat.

8.Inability to learn from experience: No evidence of that imo. She had the one DUI in 2005 and has not repeated it so therefore I do think she learns from experience.

9. Cruelty to human or animals: I have heard nothing about her being cruel to humans or animals. If she did really hire the hit man and that is proven one day then it may show she was a vengeful vindictive wife especially if we find out the true reason why she wanted Kaine dead... if she ever did.

10: Destruction of property: Don't know of any property she has destroyed in anger or otherwise.

IMO

 

[cluciano63]

In fact, we know nothing about Terri prior to recent weeks' events, in which we are only very distant spectators. And we are only hearing from two very distraught, grieving parents who have to find someone to blame for their grief and pain. For all we know, she could be suffering from a form of post-traumatic stress syndrome, if we want to label her with some sort of condition. It would be pretty stressful to be the adult who is labeled as the "last person seen" with a child who vanishes ) if innocent) and then be turned into America's most- hated-housewife on the internet.

 

[joeskidbeck]

In the first couple of weeks after Kyron went missing, I cringed every time someone posted about Terri's behavior. From the photos she posted on FB to "hitting the gym", it seemed a lot of people thought her actions meant guilt and I just could not bring myself to agree. Now, all these weeks later, it's her "inaction" that screams guilt to me. If she is innocent, she should speak up and say so. I am not saying that she should answer to all the allegations that have been made about her personal life, but she should absolutely come out and say that she didn't have anything to do with little Kyron's disappearance. As long as she is silent on that, it's not her actions that make me think she's guilty!

 

[KeyboardCat]

I don't think Terri Horman's behavior is part of some plan.

A lot of the things that we know or think she has done (not even including the allegations of harming Kyron) do seem impulsive, irrational, and risky. I know a lot of people say she is manipulative. But even the manipulative behavior with the landscaper months previously (as if she were trying to wrap him around her finger), was done only to accomplish one irrational and not very well thought out goal. The landscaper certainly wasn't the most intelligent choice of a hitman. (I thought she was a CSI fan?!)

She has shown that she does not have the emotional impulse control to premeditate long term plans in a methodical and highly controlled manner.

None of what has happened in the last seven weeks is part of a plan.

 

[Aedrys]

You know what? I read on a post here today that Terri is 40. I hadn't realized it and she certainly doesn't look it. Could all of her actions not be part of a big plan but a huge midlife crisis? Maybe her meltdown was the fact that she turned 40? I know there's celebrity 40 year olds that still look good, but maybe she worried that turning 40 was the beginning of the end, especially since she had a baby at what, 38?

It just got me to thinking, and I know there's no information out there to support that, or anything really, but I when I read her age, it struck me. Midlife crisis. I don't know if killing or hurting Kyron is part of that, but if she had PPD and then 40 hit, who knows what kind of combination that could be?

Of course, my dad had a sort of midlife crisis in his forties and drove around in a red miata for a few years, so I know not everyone goes nuclear or bonkers at that age, but still, it could be part of what's going on here. And I'm only six years from it myself, and I hope I don't go bonkers or anything when that time comes!

 

[Emma Peel]

You know what? I read on a post here today that Terri is 40. I hadn't realized it and she certainly doesn't look it. Could all of her actions not be part of a big plan but a huge midlife crisis? Maybe her meltdown was the fact that she turned 40? I know there's celebrity 40 year olds that still look good, but maybe she worried that turning 40 was the beginning of the end, especially since she had a baby at what, 38?

It just got me to thinking, and I know there's no information out there to support that, or anything really, but I when I read her age, it struck me. Midlife crisis. I don't know if killing or hurting Kyron is part of that, but if she had PPD and then 40 hit, who knows what kind of combination that could be?

Of course, my dad had a sort of midlife crisis in his forties and drove around in a red miata for a few years, so I know not everyone goes nuclear or bonkers at that age, but still, it could be part of what's going on here. And I'm only six years from it myself, and I hope I don't go bonkers or anything when that time comes!

Mid-life crisis at 40? Oh heavens no! IMO, 40 is the new 20! LOL! :dance:

 

[MagnoliaMom]

If you watch her behavior here, it does not seem part of a plan. She looks zoned and child-like, flat affect. I haven't seen enough of her to know how she normally acts but this is concerning.

I don't know how to insert the video within my post so I will just include a link to the video.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98146889.html?tab=video

 

[ThoughtFox]

I think Terri had a plot on several levels, but she wouldn't want to "act" intentionally odd in front of her husband and the world. After watching several videos, my opinion is that she may not know the difference between normal and odd and is just trying to play it cool.

Like many suspects she is probably involved with some magical thinking and daydreaming that will somehow get her out of this mess she has made for herself. If she is as selfish as she seems, then her main thoughts are probably all about herself.

I never like to turn possible suspects into victims by assuming they have "good excuses" such as post-partum depression or mid-life crisis. Of course her defense will probably bring all that in, as well as any medication she was taking, her possibly unhappy marriage, her sexting (which I think is a major major sign of her bad judgment), and her possible resentment towards Kyron.

None of that rules out premeditation for Kyron's disappearance, in my opinion.

And even if she did something in the heat of the moment and hurt Kyron, why wouldn't she have just made it look like an accident? In that case, she never would have been blamed, and her husband wouldn't have found out about these other men.

If you watch her behavior here, it does not seem part of a plan. She looks zoned and child-like, flat affect. I haven't seen enough of her to know how she normally acts but this is concerning.

I don't know how to insert the video within my post so I will just include a link to the video.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98146889.html?tab=video

Well, silence is hard to read sometimes, and she's obviously been told by her attorney to clam up and not talk to the press.

On the other hand, that reporter says it all - failing two lie detector tests? You would expect that attorney with her to either turn around and defend that as "not admissable" in court, or to correct the reporter in case it was only one test, or something. So to me what is interesting is what the attorney didn't say.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Wow, I keep swaying back and forth about what REALLY happened and who is responsible. I think one day someone grabbed him, but then when I read your post you are absolutely right, what would be the reason for the lies? If she didn't tell the truth because she thought it would make her look bad, she looks bad or maybe worse than telling the truth, if she didn't tell the truth because she was afraid she was going to lose her kids, she lost her kids, husband and home, so why would she be lying to protect someone? She doesn't seem the type to protect anyone else besides herself. So exactly why IS she lying? By the way, I would love to actually hear her speak.

I want to know more about the context.

I've been slowly reading through the Innocence Project's files. One fairly common problem has been false confessions and falsely implicating answers from the wrongly convicted.

Say the scenario went like this:

Investigator: Mrs. Horman... can I call you Terri? So, Terri, what did you do yesterday morning after you left Skyline School?

TMH: I don't know, I don't remember. All I remember is how excited Kyron was and how he had an ear to ear grin when he waved good bye.

Investigator: Take a second and think about it. You waved good bye and then what did you do?

TMH: I don't remember.

Investigator: Well, did you go down the stairs to the door?

TMH: I guess so, I don't know.

Investigator: And then you walked to your car. Did you see anyone?

TMH: I think I was driving the truck. I probably did see people, there were lots of people there.

(more along the same lines)

Investigator: Okay, Terri, I know you're really shaken up by all this. Let's try to jog your memory a different way.

TMH: Okay.

Investigator: If this was a normal day, what would you do after dropping Kyron off at school? Would you run any errands?

TMH: Well, yeah, mornings are usually a good time for me to run errands before baby K needs to nap.

Investigator: What sorts of errands do you run on normal mornings?

TMH: Well, sometimes I have to stop by Albertsons, I usually use the one on ZYZ location... If I know that there's something on sale at Fred Mayer's, I might stop there. I usually go to the one on ABC street. I've been trying to stop at the gym, I'm still working on getting back into shape. My favourite gym is 123, over on 456 Street... If I need perishables, I hit the gym first and then go shopping...

Investigator: So, yesterday morning, do you think you went to the gym first or shopping first?

TMH: I dunno. We didn't need perishables so I guess I went shopping first...

In the Innocence Project's files, some investigators then turned it around on the accused. Sometimes they'd ask questions like "Help us understand this. Let's just say you were the perpetrator, how do you think this went down? You're the perpetrator, tell me how you did it..." The suspect thinks they are answering a hypothetical and speaks in the first person. Then the investigators turn that into a "he confessed to the crime."

Some of the people so trapped were mentally ill or mentally retarded. But some of the people so trapped were people of ordinary or better intelligence who made a genuine mistake: attempting to cooperate with investigators.

Under stress, humans shed IQ points like crazy. Put someone under enough stress and their functional IQ at that moment would be less than their shoe size. When in a panic, otherwise intelligent, well educated people make stupid decisions.

That doesn't make them guilty or liars.

 

[Day Dreamer]

In the first couple of weeks after Kyron went missing, I cringed every time someone posted about Terri's behavior. From the photos she posted on FB to "hitting the gym", it seemed a lot of people thought her actions meant guilt and I just could not bring myself to agree. Now, all these weeks later, it's her "inaction" that screams guilt to me. If she is innocent, she should speak up and say so. I am not saying that she should answer to all the allegations that have been made about her personal life, but she should absolutely come out and say that she didn't have anything to do with little Kyron's disappearance. As long as she is silent on that, it's not her actions that make me think she's guilty!

I completely agree w/ you. At the beginning I wanted to believe she had nothing to do w/ it. I tried to explain away or find rational reasons for things others found suspicious.

Then, all of this other stuff starts coming out. Does the MFH plot on her husband mean she would be guilty of killing Kyron. No; but, it does make me pause to wonder if she were capable of plotting to murder her husband that it would not be such a far stretch to imagine she could have killed Kyron.

LDT's ... well, in all honesty, I'm not sure that I would pass one myself. I have always been the type of person that could physically feel the changes if I were being accused of something ... even if I did not do it (I hope that made sense). She did agree to take the 3 LDT's. I really believe that she walked out on the 2nd one because they were reviewing questions and the MFH plot came up. In a panic, she walked out ... JMO of course. It would be more helpful for me to know if she failed on specific questions or if she failed on an overall view. KWIM?

However, like stated above, I am bothered by the fact that Terri has not made a statement of her innocence. If nothing else, a statement released by her attorney would be better than complete silence. I can completely understand why she does not want to make a statement on camera or answer questions though.

I am further bothered by the fact that she has not fought for at least supervised visitation of her daughter. Maybe that is because of advice from her attorney; but, as a mother, I could not sit back and do nothing.

The fact that Terri showed the RO to MC as well as asked him to google map the address Kaine and Baby K were living at and then asked him to lie, even to her own attorney, about it really bothers me. Why would they google map the address unless they were planning to go there? What were they planning to do? Kidnap Baby K and disappear? Kill Kaine and take Baby K? I'm just not sure how anyone could put a positive view on that point. This tid bit also puts up red flags (for me) as to MC's character.

All of this is just my opinion and is subject to change at any moment. The very last thing I want is for an innocent person to go to jail. I hope that LE has a lot more than we realize. I can't help but think though, that if she is innocent she sure isn't helping her own cause w/ her actions.

ETA: Something else that deeply disturbs me is, IF Terri did do something to Kyron it appears that she did it in front of her daughter. I wonder how well baby K can communicate and if she has said anything? Can you imagine what something like that could do to a baby?