Is The Location A Smoking Gun?

UKGuy

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To determine the actual location of Jonbenet's death, may allow the selection of a more likely WDI.

The staging allows you to decide a WDI mostly but not wholly upon where she met her death.
So you can have PDI, AEADI,upstairs, or BDI, IDI downstairs, then shoehorn the surrounding evidence to fit, because it really does. So the staging tends to partition the WDI's.

There are some facts, that are not bound by a WDI, e.g. the Pineapple, the Paintbrush, the Nightdress, the size 12 Panties, The Torch. And the more contentious: Burkes remarks on the 911 call "What did you find".

The Pineapple tells us JonBenet was awake and alive approx 12.30am, or later, in the company of someone she trusted.

The Paintbrush tells us its role in the asphyxiation, which is likely to be located firmly in the basement.

The Nightdress tells us someone had to involuntarly stop the staging at some point, the intention had been to leave JonBenet in her night clothes, suggesting removal from her bed.

The Torch tells us, someone involved in her death, forensically cleaned that torch. Why was it used at all, there are lights in the basement?

The size 12 Panties tells us, Jonbenet never put these on, she was dressed in those by someone unversed in selecting female underwear in a hurry. I assume * upstairs * in JonBenet's room she will have had a drawer full of underwear reflecting her personality and age.

Some of these "facts" tend to make some WDI's more credible than others. e.g. AEADI: The use of the paintbrush is explained by its prior use as part of a AEA device, evidenced by fibers in the bed upstairs. But who in the household would ignore other close to hand tools, and saunter down to the basement, have a eureka moment, then casually break and destroy, a useful tool belonging to the the lady of the house?

So either she was killed upstairs or in the basement. Whichever you choose tends to influence your choice of WDI. BlueCrab has invoked AEA to explain the incongruity of the paintbrush from downstairs killing her upstairs! But an adult tutor is missing from this WDI, even the grand jury, chooses to ignore this aspect.

If BDI upstairs or downstairs why is he asking "What did you find?". And if the rationale for the staging is the snowfall, why did the same snowfall not deter the other asumed 3rd party from leaving with some forensic evidence?

So I "think" JonBenet was physically restrained prior to her death, possibly by the use of some ad-hoc device, which kept her hands away from her body, and her neck upright, this device such as an improvised harness, or household item may have caused the pressure point marks, which are also consistent with a stun gun. The use of the Paintbrush suggests this took place somewhere in the basement.

So it appears JonBenet was taking part in some form of sadistic ritual within the basement. She may have been roped upside down, with some cord forming a harness around her ankles and waist area. Those pressure point marks reflecting the affect of gravity by the harness or roping. But there was a serious mis-calculation, and an accident, possibly she swung down in mid-air her head hitting something, inadvertently causing a * hidden * trauma, and the complexity of the roping prevents her rapid extrication. She expires!

The perpetrator is shocked and astounded this was not meant to happen. Possibly she is left hanging, the door blocked with obstacles. How can it be explained away, certainly not by an accident. The perpetrator returns and some roping is removed, the device dismantled, she is cleaned up, her naked body redressed, placed in a blanket, a kidnap and ransom note scenario is agreed and planned, but then the snowfall rules that out.


From hereon there are ad-hoc changes to the plan, the perpetrator keeps remembering possible pieces of damaging evidence, and returns to remove them, or improves upon the staging, even re-positioning the original pose, and adding *different* bindings etc. Later as the body has still not been discovered, more artifacts are added to the body, such as tape around the mouth. Possibly the garrotte knotting is refashioned to appear as an AEA. Yet again later still, she is moved from her original location along with her nightdress to the wine cellar, and is readied to be redressed again, but circumstance prevents this and she is discovered where she was.


The paintbrush suggests to me that she was killed in the basement, and her nightdress implies she was to have been thought as having travelled from upstairs to downstairs. Portrayed and staged as the act of a sexually sadistic perpatrator, so to encompass those elements that could not be changed, rather than that of a financially motivated kidnapper since JonBenet was now dead.
 
UKGuy said:
To determine the actual location of Jonbenet's death, may allow the selection of a more likely WDI.

The staging allows you to decide a WDI mostly but not wholly upon where she met her death.
So you can have PDI, AEADI,upstairs, or BDI, IDI downstairs, then shoehorn the surrounding evidence to fit, because it really does. So the staging tends to partition the WDI's.

There are some facts, that are not bound by a WDI, e.g. the Pineapple, the Paintbrush, the Nightdress, the size 12 Panties, The Torch. And the more contentious: Burkes remarks on the 911 call "What did you find".

The Pineapple tells us JonBenet was awake and alive approx 12.30am, or later, in the company of someone she trusted.

The Paintbrush tells us its role in the asphyxiation, which is likely to be located firmly in the basement.

The Nightdress tells us someone had to involuntarly stop the staging at some point, the intention had been to leave JonBenet in her night clothes, suggesting removal from her bed.

The Torch tells us, someone involved in her death, forensically cleaned that torch. Why was it used at all, there are lights in the basement?

The size 12 Panties tells us, Jonbenet never put these on, she was dressed in those by someone unversed in selecting female underwear in a hurry. I assume * upstairs * in JonBenet's room she will have had a drawer full of underwear reflecting her personality and age.

Some of these "facts" tend to make some WDI's more credible than others. e.g. AEADI: The use of the paintbrush is explained by its prior use as part of a AEA device, evidenced by fibers in the bed upstairs. But who in the household would ignore other close to hand tools, and saunter down to the basement, have a eureka moment, then casually break and destroy, a useful tool belonging to the the lady of the house?

So either she was killed upstairs or in the basement. Whichever you choose tends to influence your choice of WDI. BlueCrab has invoked AEA to explain the incongruity of the paintbrush from downstairs killing her upstairs! But an adult tutor is missing from this WDI, even the grand jury, chooses to ignore this aspect.

If BDI upstairs or downstairs why is he asking "What did you find?". And if the rationale for the staging is the snowfall, why did the same snowfall not deter the other asumed 3rd party from leaving with some forensic evidence?

So I "think" JonBenet was physically restrained prior to her death, possibly by the use of some ad-hoc device, which kept her hands away from her body, and her neck upright, this device such as an improvised harness, or household item may have caused the pressure point marks, which are also consistent with a stun gun. The use of the Paintbrush suggests this took place somewhere in the basement.

So it appears JonBenet was taking part in some form of sadistic ritual within the basement. She may have been roped upside down, with some cord forming a harness around her ankles and waist area. Those pressure point marks reflecting the affect of gravity by the harness or roping. But there was a serious mis-calculation, and an accident, possibly she swung down in mid-air her head hitting something, inadvertently causing a * hidden * trauma, and the complexity of the roping prevents her rapid extrication. She expires!

The perpetrator is shocked and astounded this was not meant to happen. Possibly she is left hanging, the door blocked with obstacles. How can it be explained away, certainly not by an accident. The perpetrator returns and some roping is removed, the device dismantled, she is cleaned up, her naked body redressed, placed in a blanket, a kidnap and ransom note scenario is agreed and planned, but then the snowfall rules that out.


From hereon there are ad-hoc changes to the plan, the perpetrator keeps remembering possible pieces of damaging evidence, and returns to remove them, or improves upon the staging, even re-positioning the original pose, and adding *different* bindings etc. Later as the body has still not been discovered, more artifacts are added to the body, such as tape around the mouth. Possibly the garrotte knotting is refashioned to appear as an AEA. Yet again later still, she is moved from her original location along with her nightdress to the wine cellar, and is readied to be redressed again, but circumstance prevents this and she is discovered where she was.


The paintbrush suggests to me that she was killed in the basement, and her nightdress implies she was to have been thought as having travelled from upstairs to downstairs. Portrayed and staged as the act of a sexually sadistic perpatrator, so to encompass those elements that could not be changed, rather than that of a financially motivated kidnapper since JonBenet was now dead.



UKGuy,

You have several very good points worth pondering. Here's some comments, opinions, and questions:

o I guess WDI means Who Did It.

o Burke likely asked "What did you find?" because it's the only way he could have phrased the question in regard to whether the parents had found JonBenet. For instance, if he had asked "Did you find JonBenet's body?" it would have revealed to his parents that he had been involved.

o The torch (flashlight) would have been needed when the perps were ready to take the body outside into the darkness to plant it, probably in someone's backyard. The surprise dusting of snow terminated that plan, leaving the perps with a body AND a ransom note in the house.

o The "third party", if you are referring to the fifth person in the house that night, probably left by bicycle. There are bike tracks in the snow acros s the Ramsey's front lawn. He appears to have taken Patsy's new bicycle she had gotten that Christmas from John. The bike was missing, but later returned.

JMO
 
According to the weather archives from Boulder, there was no snowfall on the 25th or 26th, so the snow left on the ground was from a previous snowfall and the side of the house where the window is, there is barely any snow seen at all, making me think it melted on that side of the house before the other snow seen in pictures did.
 
Yes, and although the nights were cold ,the day temps reached into the fifties. If ,as some suggest, there was a dusting that night, it would prove nothing, a dusting could have occurred after the murder.
imo
 
If we realize the snow is a non-issue, could we move to the method of entry?
Several windows and at least one door were unlocked according to police reports.
BTW BC, Dan Hoffman did not get involved in the early days, his information was from BPD NOTES..and we do now know Steve wrote down much third hand information.
Eight months after its initial investigation into the high profile murder of six-year-old Jon Benèt Ramsey, the City of Boulder hired a panel of three attorneys, including Dan, as consultants to the Boulder Police Department.
You were suggesting BONITA worked for this man, correct??
 
sissi said:
.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...nts+police+report+boulder+snow&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Before we consider the "SNOW" , can we consider the above article.


Sissi,

Please read my lips. SNOW MELTS!!!!

The official weather report for the 26th was A DUSTING OF SNOW that night. The temperatures dipped to 8 degrees before it warmed up later in the morning.

There are numerous accounts of the light dusting of snow falling that night. Even John Ramsey said it snowed. From the 1998 police interviews:

JOHN RAMSEY: "There was no snow at all when we came in. I got up the next morning and looked out. The sky was sort of breaking up. It looked like some evidence of some snow in the trees, so it had snowed a little bit."

On page 12 of PMPT pb re' Larry Mason being informed of the kidnapping:

"Light snow was on the ground when Mason left his home in Lyons for the 25-minute drive to police headquarters in Boulder."

Sissi, you're from Maryland, just like I used to be, and snow melts in Maryland just as it does in Colorado. So you know better than to be snookered by those fraudulent pictures taken in the middle of the day showing "proof" there was no snow that night when the cops arrived at 6 A.M.

JMO
 
Arndt and Patterson arrived at approximately 8:10 a.m. and were met by French. Also already on the scene were Boulder Crime Scene investigators Barry Weiss and Sue Barcklow. Weiss was photographing the interior and exterior of the residence, and Barcklow was attempting to obtain latent finger prints. Two victim advocates, dispatched from the Boulder police department, were with the Ramseys, trying to give comfort to the victimized
parents.

I got this from the "bonita" papers. Where I also "got" that Richenbach is the cop who said there were no footprints in the snow. He arrived after French and White and Fernie. ...hmmmm

Have you read these papers in their entirety..lot's of "stuff" I can "use".

Patrol Sgt. Reichenbach, responding to the call to go to the 15th
Street address, passed a time and temperature sign in a mall parking lot on his way to the Ramsey home. The temperature in Boulder that morning was 9 degrees. A light dusting of snow lay sprinkled on the ground, mostly visible on the neighborhood lawns. Upon his arrival at the residence Reichenbach conducted a brief inspection of the outside of the premises. In addition to the newly fallen snow, portions of the yard were covered with one or two inches of crusty snow from a prior snowfall. He noted that no footprints were visible in the new snow that adhered to the grass and pavement areas surrounding the house nor in the old snow still remaining.

Does this make anyone else think that all of the others levitated in, it would be "boulder's way". Or is there a remote possibility this guy was either poor in his observational skills, or perhaps, it didn't snow until after 6:30? Oh..this gets so confusing, and me without a rudder:)
 
sissi said:
Arndt and Patterson arrived at approximately 8:10 a.m. and were met by French. Also already on the scene were Boulder Crime Scene investigators Barry Weiss and Sue Barcklow. Weiss was photographing the interior and exterior of the residence, and Barcklow was attempting to obtain latent finger prints. Two victim advocates, dispatched from the Boulder police department, were with the Ramseys, trying to give comfort to the victimized
parents.

I got this from the "bonita" papers. Where I also "got" that Richenbach is the cop who said there were no footprints in the snow. He arrived after French and White and Fernie. ...hmmmm

Have you read these papers in their entirety..lot's of "stuff" I can "use".

Patrol Sgt. Reichenbach, responding to the call to go to the 15th
Street address, passed a time and temperature sign in a mall parking lot on his way to the Ramsey home. The temperature in Boulder that morning was 9 degrees. A light dusting of snow lay sprinkled on the ground, mostly visible on the neighborhood lawns. Upon his arrival at the residence Reichenbach conducted a brief inspection of the outside of the premises. In addition to the newly fallen snow, portions of the yard were covered with one or two inches of crusty snow from a prior snowfall. He noted that no footprints were visible in the new snow that adhered to the grass and pavement areas surrounding the house nor in the old snow still remaining.

Does this make anyone else think that all of the others levitated in, it would be "boulder's way". Or is there a remote possibility this guy was either poor in his observation skills, or perhaps, it didn't snow until after 6:30? Oh..this gets so confusing, and me without a rudder:)


Sissi,

Good for you girl. You're about 3/4 there. To clear up your final question about why people didn't leave footprints in the snow after about 6:30 or 7:00 A.M. Answer: THE SNOW MELTED BY THEN, even before the sun came up. Are you now satisfied, or do I have to splash some Chesapeake Bay water into your face to get rid of your confusion? (We don't have any kippers.)

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
Sissi,

Good for you girl. You're about 3/4 there. To clear up your final question about why people didn't leave footprints in the snow after about 6:30 or 7:00 A.M. Answer: THE SNOW MELTED BY THEN, even before the sun came up. Are you now satisfied, or do I have to splash some Chesapeake Bay water into your face to get rid of your confusion? (We don't have any kippers.)

JMO

Well now, Richenbach noted on his way to the Ramseys the temp registering 9 degrees. He did say he wondered why there were no foot prints in the "new light dusting", however did he realize he was walking in on a party? Does Boulder use celsius ? Convert it..48.2? Then I can buy melting!
kippers? no...but I do steam my own blue crabs with beer ,kosher salt and old bay
 
Kipper?

I have a beaut right here which I'd be happy to reserve for sissi.... The kipper season wasn't too good this summer. I had to empty my tanks whilst we had some major building works done. However, we're almost up and running again and I just took delivery of some excellent breeding stock last week.

Slappy slappy slap ;-)
 
sissi said:
Well now, Richenbach noted on his way to the Ramseys the temp registering 9 degrees. He did say he wondered why there were no foot prints in the "new light dusting", however did he realize he was walking in on a party? Does Boulder use celsius ? Convert it..48.2? Then I can buy melting!
kippers? no...but I do steam my own blue crabs with beer ,kosher salt and old bay


Sissi,

No, Boulder doesn't use celsius. Boulder is still in the U.S.A. last time I looked.

I think I've found your problem -- too much beer in the pot while steaming the crabs. Save the beer. Try just Old Bay and rock salt, then with a clear mind see if you can figure out why snow melts. (Keep the beer ice cold until I get there.)

JMO
 
Firstpage said:
I belive when Burke is heard to say "What did you find?" he was refering to the ransom note.


Firstpage,

Perhaps, but I don't think so. The enhanced 911 call lets us know Burke was nearby while his mom was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher. He could hear her telling the dispatcher there was a ransom note, and he could plainly see the note on the floor as John was studying it.

IMO Burke was wanting to know for sure whether or not his parents had found JonBenet's body, but he couldn't come right out and ask it without giving himself away.

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
Firstpage,

Perhaps, but I don't think so. The enhanced 911 call lets us know Burke was nearby while his mom was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher. He could hear her telling the dispatcher there was a ransom note, and he could plainly see the note on the floor as John was studying it.

IMO Burke was wanting to know for sure whether or not his parents had found JonBenet's body, but he couldn't come right out and ask it without giving himself away.

JMO

Bluecrab, I disagree with you on the note writer. I firmly believe that Patsy Ramsey wrote that note and Burke had nothing to do with it - nor did he probably even know it was written.
Patsy never went to bed that night.
She greeted the first police officer on the scene in the same exact clothing she had on the night before.
She, IMO, was up all night dealing with the horror of her dead daughter, trying to come up with a plan to diver attention away from what had really happened in the house that night.
I think Burke's question of "What did you find" was referring to the note. Written after he bashed his sister in the head and and was sent off to bed while his parents dealt with the aftermath.
His other question on the phone, "Please, what do I do?" and his father's terse reply indicate that they ALL knew what had happened (save for Burke knowing the extenet of the staging at this point...), that Burke was nervous about what he should do and his father was clearly irritated at him when he replied, "We weren't speaking to YOU!"
And not wanting to be around Burke that day his parents then shuffled him off to another location and didn't even bother to collect him when they "found" his sister DEAD but waited hours to even reunite with him.
They were clearly distancing themselves (and the police) from Burke that day.

I don't care what you say about this expert or that expert you come up with saying that Patsy probably didn't pen the note. There are plenty of others that say not only that she cannot be eliminated as the author but some even say she definitely wrote it. And this is based only on the handwriting itself - done in a panic and with the opposite hand deliberately.
But when coupled with the - to me - more important LINGUISTICS in the note which have her style, lingo and puncuation habits all throughout it - it's a no-brainer.
Not to mention left exactly where SHE comes down every morning and where SHE was in the habit of leaving things to be noticed to go upstairs. On the sprial staircase.
~Angel~
 
K777angel said:
Bluecrab, I disagree with you on the note writer. I firmly believe that Patsy Ramsey wrote that note and Burke had nothing to do with it - nor did he probably even know it was written.
Patsy never went to bed that night.
She greeted the first police officer on the scene in the same exact clothing she had on the night before.
She, IMO, was up all night dealing with the horror of her dead daughter, trying to come up with a plan to diver attention away from what had really happened in the house that night.
I think Burke's question of "What did you find" was referring to the note. Written after he bashed his sister in the head and and was sent off to bed while his parents dealt with the aftermath.
His other question on the phone, "Please, what do I do?" and his father's terse reply indicate that they ALL knew what had happened (save for Burke knowing the extenet of the staging at this point...), that Burke was nervous about what he should do and his father was clearly irritated at him when he replied, "We weren't speaking to YOU!"
And not wanting to be around Burke that day his parents then shuffled him off to another location and didn't even bother to collect him when they "found" his sister DEAD but waited hours to even reunite with him.
They were clearly distancing themselves (and the police) from Burke that day.

I don't care what you say about this expert or that expert you come up with saying that Patsy probably didn't pen the note. There are plenty of others that say not only that she cannot be eliminated as the author but some even say she definitely wrote it. And this is based only on the handwriting itself - done in a panic and with the opposite hand deliberately.
But when coupled with the - to me - more important LINGUISTICS in the note which have her style, lingo and puncuation habits all throughout it - it's a no-brainer.
Not to mention left exactly where SHE comes down every morning and where SHE was in the habit of leaving things to be noticed to go upstairs. On the sprial staircase.
~Angel~



Angel,

Neither Patsy nor Burke could be eliminated as the writer by the CBI, but Patsy came very close to being eliminated. The U.S. Secret Service handwriting expert DID eliminate Patsy as the writer. And Patsy was eliminated as the writer by the polygraph examination. John was eliminated as the writer by the CBI and the polygraph examination, but the CBI won't release the details of Burke's handwriting examination.

And although they didn't realize they were doing it, I think Darnay Hoffman's handwriting experts eliminated Patsy and incriminated Burke as the writer when they were told the captions in Burke's photo album were written by Patsy. Hoffman's experts used the captions as exemplars in their handwriting examinations and stated whoever wrote the captions also wrote the ransom note. There's no doubt in my mind that BURKE WROTE THE CAPTIONS. Check out the captions on ACandyRose's website under "The Hoffman Files".

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
Angel,

Neither Patsy nor Burke could be eliminated as the writer by the CBI, but Patsy came very close to being eliminated. The U.S. Secret Service handwriting expert DID eliminate Patsy as the writer. And Patsy was eliminated as the writer by the polygraph examination. John was eliminated as the writer by the CBI and the polygraph examination, but the CBI won't release the details of Burke's handwriting examination.

And although they didn't realize they were doing it, I think Darnay Hoffman's handwriting experts eliminated Patsy and incriminated Burke as the writer when they were told the captions in Burke's photo album were written by Patsy. Hoffman's experts used the captions as exemplars in their handwriting examinations and stated whoever wrote the captions also wrote the ransom note. There's no doubt in my mind that BURKE WROTE THE CAPTIONS. Check out the captions on ACandyRose's website under "The Hoffman Files".

JMO


BlueCrab, I'm not so sure a 9/10 year old boy could write a 3 page ransom note without leaving prints on it or even a wrinkle or fold in the paper. If John and Patsy were so careful on cleaning up the crime scene and staging it to draw attention away from Burke, why would they leave an incriminating piece of evidence like the note, it just doesn't make sense. I believe Burke could have caused the death of his sister but not capable of any part of the cover-up.
 
eliza said:
BlueCrab, I'm not so sure a 9/10 year old boy could write a 3 page ransom note without leaving prints on it or even a wrinkle or fold in the paper. If John and Patsy were so careful on cleaning up the crime scene and staging it to draw attention away from Burke, why would they leave an incriminating piece of evidence like the note, it just doesn't make sense. I believe Burke could have caused the death of his sister but not capable of any part of the cover-up.


Eliza,

Well, SOMEONE wrote the note without leaving their fingerprints on it. And the fact that the paper pages weren't folded or crumpled in any way, helping to prove the paper came from within the house, shows how young and naive the writer(s) had to have been. The wording of the note (threats, movie adages, foreign terrorist theme, etc.) has juvenile male written all over it. The politeness shown toward John (Mr. Ramsey, etc.) reveals respect for an adult. It appears that two boys collaborated in writing the note, although Burke was the likely scribe. I say this because of the backward comma, suggesting it was added by a person hovering over and directly in front of the writer, editing as the writer wrote.

I don't think John and Patsy did much of the staging. Most of it, including the note and the grisly part of the staging (the bash in the head), had probably already been accomplished by the boys by the time John found the body (which IMO was around 3 or 4 A.M.). The parents had very few options other than to reluctantly go along with what the boys had already started.

Who were the two boys? The evidence definitely appears to be pointing toward Burke Ramsey and, to a lesser extent, toward Doug Stine.

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
Eliza,

Well, SOMEONE wrote the note without leaving their fingerprints on it. And the fact that the paper pages weren't folded or crumpled in any way, helping to prove the paper came from within the house, shows how young and naive the writer(s) had to have been. The wording of the note (threats, movie adages, foreign terrorist theme, etc.) has juvenile male written all over it. The politeness shown toward John (Mr. Ramsey, etc.) reveals respect for an adult. It appears that two boys collaborated in writing the note, although Burke was the likely scribe. I say this because of the backward comma, suggesting it was added by a person hovering over and directly in front of the writer, editing as the writer wrote.

I don't think John and Patsy did much of the staging. Most of it, including the note and the grisly part of the staging (the bash in the head), had probably already been accomplished by the boys by the time John found the body (which IMO was around 3 or 4 A.M.). The parents had very few options other than to reluctantly go along with what the boys had already started.

Who were the two boys? The evidence definitely appears to be pointing toward Burke Ramsey and, to a lesser extent, toward Doug Stine.

JMO

BlueCrab, I realize someone wrote the note and my belief is that Patsy wrote the note without Burke's knowledge. Patsy would know how to pen a note without leaving a fingerprint. I just can't believe the Ramseys would take the chance on leaving a note written by their son not knowing if a fingerprint was left by him or not. Had the Ramseys admitted to Burke being awake that morning during the 911 call then I could see a possibility as they could explain any left behind fingerprints on the note. As parents I just don't see them taking the chance when he could have left evidence without them knowing.
 

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