Is this what the one/ones who staged it had in mind??

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    7NEWS has
    confirmed it involves a book by a well-known FBI profiler John Douglas.
    The book is called Mindhunter. 7NEWS has confirmed that investigators
    discovered the book in the Ramsey's bedroom. Sources tell us one of the
    parents was reading it, but we don't know which one. The Ramsey's have
    been questioned about it. The book describes many of the cases Douglas
    worked on while he was at the F.B.I. Investigators are particularly
    interested in a chapter that explains how the FBI helped catch Larry
    Gene Bell,
    who was convicted and sentenced to death for kidnapping and
    killing two girls in South Carolina in 1985. Experts say there are
    several similarities between the case described in that chapter and the
    Ramsey case. While the book doesn't mean anything by itself, when you
    put it together with all the other details of the murder, it's an
    important piece of information. We tried to contact the Ramsey's lawyers
    about this, but they did not return our call. John and Patsy Ramsey have
    said repeatedly they did not have anything to do with the death of their
    daughter.


    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-mindhunter.htm


    ---------------------------



    http://eotd.wordpress.com/2008/10/04/4-october1996-larry-gene-bell/


    Larry Gene Bell



    Today is given over to one particularly unsavoury character, who was convinced he was Jesus Christ up to the day he died.

    His name is Larry Gene Bell and the American was sent to his death for murdering the sister of a former beauty queen hailing from South Carolina, among others.

    28 days later

    His evil activities spanned a mere 28 days and in that time, he did enough to earn the lurid title of serial killer in many people’s eyes. He would kidnap his intended prey, then rape them and ultimately kill them by suffocating them.

    --------------------

    :eek:


    Which Ramsey was reading "Mindhunter" ???
     
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  3. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    1 MIKE KANE: Okay. What about "Mind
    2 Hunter", John Douglas's book was there in the
    3 house, had you purchased that?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: No. It was there in
    5 '96? Interesting.
    6 MIKE KANE: Was it interesting?
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: I never never heard
    8 of John Douglas or that book before.
    9 MIKE KANE: So you never read that?
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I bought one of
    11 his books the next summer, his newer book.


    1 How about the book Mind?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    3 TOM HANEY: Do you recall that? Do you
    4 recall seeing it around the house?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.
    6 TOM HANEY: You were not reading.
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    8 TOM HANEY: It is a book by John Douglas.
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
    10 TOM HANEY: Do you know who he is?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: John Douglas I know.





    So the book was there but neither of them read it.okay...........
     
  4. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    PETER BOYLES: "We'll talk about the police interview and we'll talk about the books by the bed. One of the stories we broke was about John Douglas' book Mindhunter being seen in the crime scene photos. You know a little bit about books by the Ramseys beds..."

    LINDA WILCOX: "Well, they each had a pile of books in the corner by the bed. Even though they had nightstands. Originally the nightstands weren't there until they redid the upstairs. And even afterwards, they tended to just throw the books there. So, I kind of knew who read what. So, Patsy's side had things like, you know poems for women and not really what I would consider true trash-like Harlequin romances, but more like Mary Higgins Clark, woman novels. Some of them, I had even read.

    John's side of the bed was usually some kind of suspense-thriller. He tended to buy books by, what I call, by the numbers, I mean whatever's number 1 on the bestseller lists. Occasionally it would be something like the 7 habits of successful people, or financial things or even a (didn't hear) occasionally. But, generally it was some kind of suspense novel."
     
  5. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    1998-08-04: Enquirer (Week of August 4, 1998):
    Police reveal 'murder manual' found in mom & dad's bedroom

    In a dramatic development in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, police found a "hot-to murder manual" in the bedroom of the little beauty queen's parents!

    The true-crime book describes a 1985 murder with amazing similarities to the brutal killing of JonBenet, who would have turned 8 on August 6.

    And incredibly, it was written by John Douglas, former head of the FBI's behavioral science unit - and one of the first experts hired by JonBenet's father John after he and wife Patsy set up their own investigation team.

    "The book was among several found during a search of John and Patsy's bedroom after JohBenet's body was discovered in the basement," said a source close to the case. "One of the investigators recently read through it in detail and was stunned at what he saw in one chapter.

    "For someone planning a murder or staging its aftermath, it could amount to a how-to manual."

    The book "Mind Hunter," was published in 1995, the year before JonBenet was murdered.

    It describes the case of Larry Gene Bell, who abducted and murdered high school senior Shari Faye Smith and a 9-year-old girl near Columbia, S.C.

    And Douglas, who helped solve the killings, lists circumstances in the case that were later eerily echoed in the JonBenet murder:

    * After snatching Shari, the killer called her mother. His first words to her were, "Listen carefully." In the JonBenet case, the ransom note - which cops believe was written by Patsy Ramsey - starts with the words, "Listen carefully!"

    * Shari was suffocated with duct tape, which was later pulled from her mouth and nose. When John Ramsey found his daughter's body he ripped duct tape from her mouth.

    * Before she was killed Shari wrote a "last will and testament" to her family on a legal pad. The fake JonBenet ransom note was written on a yellow legal pad.

    * Shari's killer collected pornography featuring bondage. JonBenet's hands had been bound with cord before she was murdered.

    * Shari's sister Dawn later won the Miss South Carolina beauty title and went on to finish as a runner-up in the Miss America pageant. Patsy Ramsey is a former Miss West Virginia - and she also competed for the Miss America title.

    Both John and Patsy were questioned about the book in June, and they dismissed the similarities between the book and JonBenet's murder as sheer coincidence, The Enquirer has learned.

    But Gregg McCrary - Douglas' fellow FBI profiler who was also approached to work for the Ramseys and turned them down - declared: "The longer you are in my business, the less you believe in coincidences.

    "I believe the JonBenet crime scene was staged. Many times when people stage a crime scene it's based on their perception of what a real criminal would do - and they get that information from books or movies.

    "The grand jury will have to weight whether these are a series of coincidences - or something else.
     
  6. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Madeleine just fell off the fence for GOOD.
     
  7. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Btw I didn't know that they wanted McCrary on the team and he turned the R's down.

    :clap: :clap: :clap:

    Guess there are still moral people out there who don't sell themselves!

    :clap:
     
  8. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Chapter 16 tells of the kidnapping and murder of Shari Faye Smith May 31, 1985. Link JonBenet, Shari was a pretty blonde youngster who loved to perform on stage. Her sister was a beauty queen who - like Patsy - appeared in the Miss American contest. When Shari's killer called her family, he twice warned them to "listen carefully." The phony ransom note, which cops believe Patsy Ramsey wrote, began with the words "listen carefully."

    Shari had duct tape stuck over her mouth. So did tragic JonBenet.

    "The investigators believe that Patsy was deeply moved by the story of Shari's murder because of the similarities to her own family," the insider explains. "She later used it to invent a bogus kidnapping and ransom demand."

    * On page 350, Douglas tells how perverts are sometimes first turned on by Barbie Dolls. A pink Barbie nightdress was placed close to JonBenet's body - planted, detectives believe, to reinforce the idea she was the victim of a perverted intruder.
     
  9. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    12 A. No, but Tom Wickman swears up and
    13 down it was in the parents' bedroom.
    14 Q. Does anyone else, besides Tom
    15 Wickman, swear that up and down?
    16 A. No, but Tom Wickman has told that
    17 to several people.
    18 Q. Where in the bedroom?
    19 A. I was always under the impression
    20 as we recollect it now on one of the two
    21 night stands.


    8 A. Yeah, Wickman is the source of
    9 Mind Hunter by Douglas.
    10 Q. Anyone else, besides Wickman, is
    11 all I'm trying to find out?
    12 A. Not that I'm aware of.


    -------------------

    The only hope I have right now is that Wickman wasn't lying cause this is....huge IMO.
     
  10. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Madeleine, It is my opinion that John was reading "Mind Hunter", not because they were planning to kill JonBenet, but because he thought it was interesting reading. I like to read the same types of books. It seems to me that if he had read the whole book he would have realized that the staging was going to point to him and Patsy. Unless, he used it to make sure that the staging pointed to Patsy, and not him. Hmmm........
    Also, it probably occurred to him then that they would need Douglas on their team.
     
  11. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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  12. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    This is exactly what caused me to lose all respect for John Douglas. McCrary knew exactly where that staging pointed and had no desire to cover for child killers/molesters. John Douglas is another story. I guess money and fame are more important than integrity and justice! I would love to hear his reasoning for helping the Ramseys although I already know it would be because he believed they were "innocent". Not according to his own theories, they weren't.
     
  13. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    I wondered what that loud THUMP was!!!!

    :highfive: Madeleine has seen the light! :sunshine:
     
  14. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Weird....cause most of the stuff I put together lately that IMO points to RDI is connected to JD.

    The article he wrote for the FBI back in 1992 re staging.
    The "coincidences" between the case in his book(and the book being found in the R house) and how JB was killed and found.
    The fact that he wasn't hired to help them look for the killer but to help their defense team.
     
  15. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Active Member

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    The sole purpose of the RN was to divert attention away from the family. Seems to me that book proves John had a hand in the staging, he retained information, even if subconsciously.

    The staging ( fire) fake 911 call and RN in the "Zahra Claire Baker" case is all too familiar. IMO Both parents conspired to cover up her death same as the Ramsey case.

    As Soon as someone figures out the HOW could the other parent cover for the killer parent and the WHY let me know. I'll never understand it.
     
  16. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    I heard it clear as a bell!

    Welcome back, maddy. Nice to see you again.
     
  17. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    I really was willing to give them a chance but it all ended with BR refusing to answer questions>>>back to the "drawing board".
    I still think some stuff could have an IDI explanation and I still don't trust the BPD and their experts but there are SO damn many things that point in the other direction(RDI) and I am not the coincidences type of person,never was,never will be.One is already too much for me and in this case there are....how many?TOO MANY.
     
  18. otg

    otg Reports of my death are greatly exagerated... but

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    Wow, that's weird. Why would the producer(s)choose that name? I couldn't find it listed on IMDB.
     
  19. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Couldn't find anything about it either...
    maybe they renamed it
    the only movie re Bell is this one

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1513270/
     
  20. otg

    otg Reports of my death are greatly exagerated... but

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    From Jameson’s postings:

    27 . "answers"
    Posted by jams on Oct-31-99 at 07:30 AM (EST)

    I know the Ramseys had not seen the movie Ransom. I asked that and they answered me. John Douglas has said publicly that the Ramseys did NOT have his book in their bedroom - that was a lie.

    I can understand people wondering if the parents were into movies - particularly movies on kidnappings, crime, especially those referred to in the note (did they have a tape of In Cold Blood? I would bet that SickPuppy does)

    But the Mindhunter thing was first pushed by Boyles, if you remember. I say he is a Media Whore Extraordinaire - loves to point at the Ramseys - and I don't think he gives a damn about the truth or justice. Someone was reading the book and thought it might be good copy (Shari-Faye rhymes with JonBenét, remember??)

    Too many pieces of misinformation out there that never seem to go away - even when

    And:

    1 . "NO!"
    Posted by jams on Jan-11-00 at 05:07 PM (EST)

    There is no truth to that tabloid story.

    That lie was first made public by a tabloid and Peter Boyles. The Ramseys and John Douglas himself have said that the book was NOT there! Lou Smit didn't find that non-existant evidence. The tabloids staged a photo and put it in their publication. Boyles pushed the story hard - Craig Silverman went on TV (I think it was Geraldo) and said that the book was a blueprint for murder - after all, Shari Faye and JonBenét RHYME!!!

    The Ramseys didn't own the book.

    But look around our own houses - do we own any true crime books? I do (now I do, for sure). I own the Douglas books, white nylon cord and black duct tape. Guess what, I am not a killer and seriously doubt owning those things will make me one. An interest in crime does not a killer make.
    publicly revealed to be lies. (Boyles dropped it, but the audience remembers it.)

    And again in 2001:

    33 . "the book"
    Posted by jameson on Aug-22-01 at 03:30 PM (EST)

    The book MindHunter was NOT in the house. Peter Boyles put out that story, I don't know who his source was but they were not telling the truth.

    A tabloid actually put together a pile of books, one of them MindHunter, and they put that photo in their rag, so some people thought they had "seen it in the crime scene photos" but they are wrong. It is not in the crime scene photos. It was not in the Ramsey house and they didn't know who John Douglas was until after the murder.

    And from Hunter himself:

    Direct quote from the John Douglas and Mark Olshaker book "The Cases That Haunt Us", p. 298.

    "Upon meeting John Ramsey, I informed him who I was, shook his hand, and expressed my sorrow for his loss. As it turned out, there was some significance to the fact that neither he nor Patsy knew who I was. Subsequent to this, several sources, including Detective Steve Thomas, reported that MINDHUNTER, the first book I wrote with Mark, was on John Ramsey's nightstand. In this book we deal with staging crime scenes, and some speculated that one or both of the Ramseys had read it and "learned" how to outwit investigators to make it look as if someone from outside had killed their child. First, I have to say that they--or anyone else--would not have learned this from reading the book. We didn't write a how-to-course, and any good investigator would see right through such a primitive attempt. Morover, much as we would like to think that everyone has read our books and knows who we are, MINDHUNTER was not there on John's nightstand or elsewhere in the house, and I looked through the place pretty carefully. Believe me, as an author you learn to spot your books anywhere and everywhere. And it was not on the long police list of items removed from the house, although a "Dave Barry book about cyberspace" was. This is just one small example of the mountain of erroneous information that has come out about this case. While I understand that John read MINDHUNTER after meeting me, he was completely unfamiliar with my work at the time of the crime." (end of quoted material)

    Okay, all that denial about the book even being in the house; and yet in 1998, when Michael Kane questioned John Ramsey, he (the DA, familiar with every aspect of a case) asked the following:

    1 MIKE KANE: Okay. What about "Mind
    2 Hunter", John Douglas's book was there in the
    3 house, had you purchased that?

    4 JOHN RAMSEY: No. It was there in
    5 '96? Interesting.
    6 MIKE KANE: Was it interesting?
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: I never never heard
    8 of John Douglas or that book before.
    9 MIKE KANE: So you never read that?
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I bought one of
    11 his books the next summer, his newer book.
     
  21. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    AND
    if I am not mistaken,cops can bluff and lie during the interviews,prosecutors can't.
    Kane's a prosecutor.
     

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