Israel Keyes: General Discussion

sl12

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OK. That makes sense. It is weird, though, that he has not been identified. TCBS would be on it I know if he had been.
 

dub

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Just to clarify, I don’t know for sure that he hasn’t been identified period, just that TCBS hasn’t been able to figure it out. It’s very possible that the FBI has identified him and just hasn’t shared that information.

In any case though, it does seem that TCBS is working on it. If I remember correctly from the roundtable, they were pretty sure for a time that they HAD identified him, but they eventually found out definitively that they had the wrong guy.

I can’t recall if that was a recent development or something that happened a while back.
 

sl12

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OK. That makes sense. It is weird, though, that he has not been identified. In know TCB would be on it if he had been.
 

MesquiteO21

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Does anyone have any information on the good friend of IK’s that he met in the army who was from Minnesota?
 

sl12

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Is this the same friend in the FBI docs to whom he was closest while in the army? There was a person whose name is redacted (I think) in the FBI files with whom Keyes spent a lot of time.
 

dub

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Is this the same friend in the FBI docs to whom he was closest while in the army? There was a person whose name is redacted (I think) in the FBI files with whom Keyes spent a lot of time.

The guy you’re referring to is the one that on TCBS they call “Matthew” right? (I think that’s a pseudonym, not his actual name)

I can’t remember if he’s the one from Minnesota or not. Off hand I want to say the guy from Minnesota is someone else, but I’m really not sure.
 

suprnovaish

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Perhaps the 11 skulls do not represent his victims. I agree with folks who believe his victim count to be much higher than 11. His murderous activity lasted 11 years. Perhaps the skulls represent himself (narcissistic tendency) and there is one for each year he was killing. Thoughts and things.
 

WyomingSkyAngel

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Perhaps the 11 skulls do not represent his victims. I agree with folks who believe his victim count to be much higher than 11. His murderous activity lasted 11 years. Perhaps the skulls represent himself (narcissistic tendency) and there is one for each year he was killing. Thoughts and things.

I'd agree with this.
 

sl12

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I keep wanting to know more about what we can find out about Keyes's bank robberies and whether there is any shred of a chance that someone could somehow unearth Keyes's personal laptop, the one he says he threw away in 2011 (?). Is it a mile deep in an Anchorage landfill? I think TCB is building a story with some credibility out of K's online gaming life and his online presence. He met people through online gaming, obviously, not to mention online chatrooms.
Some of the things Keyes has said in his interviews are interesting aside from his vague statements about other murders he committed. He says he broke when and that sometimes people were in the houses when he did so. In that same interview (or perhaps another one) he says he knows he'd make a terrible cat burglar because of his size. Why did he say these things?
Who is the Burger King guy?
Does anyone else find it odd that K, unlike (to my limited knowledge) other serial murderers, wanted the death penalty and then committed suicide? I know the latter act was one of control, which is in keeping with his criminal MO, but wow. That seems like something of an outlier act for that type of personality. But maybe it isn't.
I also think that those who knew IK personally are still dealing with the revival of his case. Maybe TCB is trying to honor them by not revealing some things.
 

frostyfalls

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Perhaps the 11 skulls do not represent his victims. I agree with folks who believe his victim count to be much higher than 11. His murderous activity lasted 11 years. Perhaps the skulls represent himself (narcissistic tendency) and there is one for each year he was killing. Thoughts and things.
Why have I never thought of this? This is an excellent idea and makes a lot of sense
 

cujenn81

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Does anyone have any information on the good friend of IK’s that he met in the army who was from Minnesota?
The following link will you take you to the FBI files and there are notes from their interviews with two different military guys that Keyes was particularly close to when he was in the Army. I'm not sure if they were from Minnesota... but it might be helpful?

Israel Keyes FBI Vault Files

The notes from the first guy interviewed can be found on pages 406-410.
The notes from the second guy interviewed can be found on pages 477-479.
 

Somesleuthin

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21merc, for sure, if you go back and listen to all the audio, he did say again and again "we all know how this ends," and repeatedly say he was losing patience with the process and was working on another plan. He said, "I don't plan on being around a whole lot longer," and "if this doesn't go my way, I don't need you guys."

In hindsight, he was completely consistent from the beginning; he was not going to sit in jail for more than a year, and if they could get him the death penalty he would tell them everything, if not, then the deal was off.

In the press conference investigators gave several days after his suicide (in Alaska, not the VT press conference), a reported asked if there had been any hint in the final interview that he was about to take his life. They said no, everything was as usual and he was cooperating. But listen to that interview or read the transcript and he is showing disinterest and sort of checking out with his body language, and makes a very clear statement that while he had felt he could work the system in his favor by giving out and withholding information on his timetable, he now understands it is not possible within the justice system. He is very clear that the process is not working for him anymore.

I was disappointed with the special for a few reasons. First, they cut and spliced quotes from the interviews to make him sound more sinister. To me that is very bad journalism. They also used quotes from interviews about other things as voiceovers during the Koenig reconstruction. It makes it seem as though he said those things about that crime, when he did not. They also spliced in his laugh in places where he did not actually laugh.

Second, the profilers who seem to be associated with this series -- not the actual Keyes investigation team, but the retired profiler "stars" -- completely sucked. It seems like they didn't even listen to the interviews. Instead they said boilerplate stuff, generic serial killer control bla bla bla.

I especially disliked the guy in the pork-pie hat. He wanted to tell us that Keyes had a thing for Detective Monique Doll, and insinuated depraved motives.

I listened to the audio interviews in the jail when Keyes reached out to Doll to try to set up the whole info-for-death-penalty negotiation. I realized right away she was supposed to be bait. She used a syrupy voice and actually flirted with him, asking about 5 or 6 times if she should tell her boss that Keyes wanted her to stay on the case. She then comes back and gives him her card, actually saying, "I usually don't do this," like some bad movie line.

He was perfectly polite, and told her that if they needed more on the Koenig case from him, he was more comfortable talking with her, but then he says he needs to talk to the prosecutors about other serious matters.

They kept her on for the first subsequent interview, but Keyes talks exclusively to the decision makers (federal prosecutors) because they have the power, if anyone does, to do a deal with him. After that she is no longer in the interviews.

So my sense was the FBI initially thought they could use Detective Doll as a honeytrap and Keyes would be so overcome with lust or whatever that he'd spill his guts just to be around her. But almost immediately it was clear he was interested in high stakes negotiating, and all that mattered was talking to whoever had the power to get him what he wanted. Now, Mr Retired Profiler in the pork-pie hat ignores what actually happened and gives us serial killer 101 ********. I hope to god the FBI has better profilers currently on staff, because there is a lot to be learned from the Keyes interviews, but not if you go into it with a bunch of preconceived theories.

I also agree with you it must have been very lonely and isolating to be him. In the tv special they were saying what a thrill he got out of talking about his crimes. I felt, listening to him, that there was an intensity that was more akin to finally, finally being able to talk about your deepest, most private self. I mean, a mixture of relief and shame and visceral memory, more like a very heavy therapy session.
This is old and not even certain I can reply but your post touched me.

I know Israel Keyes. I didn’t know him while alive but “T” ( his ex fiancé and mother to his only child) and his daughter, “L” are people I’ve come to love and truly care for.

I’ve witnessed the pain that his past has forever left a mark on his daughter and his ex’s hearts. At the same time, I’ve been told stories by them about him that I do not believe were him “faking” his love or protection of them.

It’s the very juxtaposition that leaves us baffled- a loving, protective father that even fought for custody of “L” when his ex and my friend “T” began a personal battle with pain med addiction due to a very real Health problem.

Here’s a father going to grave lengths to give his daughter ( who was then a child) the healthiest upbringing he can- even by being a single, full time father and yet the same man capable of kidnapping, raping. Murdering and dismembering James Koenig’s only daughter.

I think it’s easier for us to believe these type of sick individuals are completely evil and void of all and any good. But that’s not the reality. It’s extremely more complex than that. What he did was pure evil, there’s no doubt about that but why? None of us do anything unless we have a reason. “Because I can” was not a sincere answer. Even he may have not understood what led him to such dark impulses.

Israel did, imo, love his daughter, his ex fiancé, her son that he raised as a stepson ( and who so tragically also took his own life almost 6 months after Israel) a young man only 17, just about to start life. That left my friend with the suicide of the man she deeply loved, had a child with, was engaged to, lived with for 5 years ( with ZERO clue what he was doing in the dark) and less than 6 months later, she lost her only son. “L” lost her dad to suicide at age 11 and her only sibling 6 months later.

Most people don’t endure that type of trauma and loss after a whole life time, yet his daughter experienced at age 11. Thankfully she’s a resilient, strong, caring young woman despite her father’s sins. She is an inspiration and I am so proud of her.

( before I forget, someone on here mentioned their anger at him over his “ode to murder” suicide poem and how he didn’t leave his daughter anything - want to clarify that he did leave her with two letters. One arrived the day he was discovered death and the other one she received the day *after* her suicide. FBI confiscated them but did return them to her. I’ll just say he did tell her she was the only bright light in his life and the only human he loved more than himself - he also vaguely apologized because she had asked at the time to not be told what he did, she waited 5 years to find out the extent of his depravity. Yet, like Ive told her, that dark/deviant side of him doesn’t negate the loving, caring, protective father she remembers. I think for her survival, she needs to know he did love her)


Israel loved his mother but they definitely had a complicated relationship yet he still loved her. He loved all of his siblings ( he was the oldest son of ten children).

There are things that occurred to him in his childhood that I’ve never known made public but definitely give anyone with the slightest bit of psychology and pathology understanding a reason to say,’aaaah.’ I am not excusing his heinous crimes, but his formative years give a lot of explanation into the man/monster he became.

His father’s death had a HEAVY impact on him. As he had a very strained relationship with his father that led his father to essentially “disown” him and then forbid all of Israel’s siblings and mother to have any contact with him.

He was an EXTREMELY lonely soul who was very bothered by the fact that he was so inherently different from everyone else he knew. He didn’t like it. He felt flawed, or as he said, “I was very disturbed by it and wondered if I was maybe some demon child.”

I asked his family to request an autopsy so his brain could be studied- I was and am very interested in how formed his prefrontal lobe was. One of his brother did recall Israel falling 8 feet off a ladder and having a head injury from it when Israel was around 12-13 years old. According to his mother and siblings, his odd/secretive/deviant behavior began around the age of puberty - around 14 years old was the age I was given.

IF he did sustain a serious TBI, and wasn’t treated due to his family’s religious beliefs, then add in the EXTREME beliefs he was required to “adhere” to without any option, opinion, or say of his own ( about really anything in his own life) until he was “disinherited” by the dad, plus living his whole life off the grid, away from typical humans with typical lives, I personally think it makes perfect sense that Israel became who he did.

Although always saying he was an atheist, I know for a fact he actually battled back and forth about his belief in God. It was so entrained in him from birth yet the God portrayed to him was an angry, dictator just waiting to send souls to hell. Israel never heard of a loving, gracious, forgiving God.

You can see his spiritual and internal battle of God by what he said 2 nights before capture to his sisters, mom, and then his moms pastor. Israel’s mom told me she was very aware his last two visits to Texas ( Feb and March 2012) that her son was “unraveling” before her eyes and she knew something very dark was happening with and in him. She tried to get him to talk and open, reminding him that God loved him and could forgiven anything.

Israel’s sister ( who was the closest to emotionally as a sibling) said as they stood out on their moms porch, she began telling Israel how God had changed her the last two years and revealed His love and goodness to her. She said, Israel had tears in his eyes and said, “I really am happy for you. I’m glad you’ve found that. I am. But that’s not possible for me, you don’t understand.”

His mom said each visit she would ask Israel to please allow her pastor ( or 1 of 3 pastors) come and pray and talk to him. She said EVERY time israel defiantly said “No! I’m an atheist! There’s nothing to talk about.” However, this night- March 10,2012 ( only 3 days prior to his capture) when on that front porch, she again asked if her pastor could talk to him.

She was shocked when Israel said, “yeah, I will talk to him.”
As her pastor came over, Israel’s mom went inside but his sister remained outside with Israel. This is when Israel says, “no one understands the depths of darkness I’ve gone to. There’s no coming back from what I’ve done. I have to drink every night just to pass out and sleep to get these images out of my head.”

The pastor begins to tell Israel, there is not a SINGLE sin imaginable or unimaginable that God can’t forgive.

At that, Israel looked at the pastor and said, “man, you’re just wasting your time. I’m an atheist.”

The pastor said when Israel said that, he gently put his arm on Israel’s shoulder, looked him in the eyes and said, “Israel, no. It’s not that you don’t believe in Him. It’s that you’re angry at Him. Tell me, when did you decide to hate God?”

According to his sister and the pastor, at that, Israel buckled to his knees and he didn’t just cry, he wept.

After he wept, they said he stood up, bucked out his chest and said “this conversation is over.” He went inside, grabbed some his daughter, his alcohol and cigars, then drove not too far down the road to the hotel he was staying in. Within 3 days he was captured and within 9 months, he was dead from suicide. That pastor is the one that led Israel’s funeral for his family ( only 7 people attended, 2 were pastors).

“T” ( his ex fiancé) said he was in a non stop interval war with himself and the God he “didn’t believe in.”

Oddly enough, the very name “Israel” means: to wrestle with God.
 
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marable

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This is old and not even certain I can reply but your post touched me.

I know Israel Keyes. I didn’t know him while alive but “T” ( his ex fiancé and mother to his only child) and his daughter, “L” are people I’ve come to love and truly care for.

I’ve witnessed the pain that his past has forever left a mark on his daughter and his ex’s hearts. At the same time, I’ve been told stories by them about him that I do not believe were him “faking” his love or protection of them.

It’s the very juxtaposition that leaves us baffled- a loving, protective father that even fought for custody of “L” when his ex and my friend “T” began a personal battle with pain med addiction due to a very real Health problem.

Here’s a father going to grave lengths to give his daughter ( who was then a child) the healthiest upbringing he can- even by being a single, full time father and yet the same man capable of kidnapping, raping. Murdering and dismembering James Koenig’s only daughter.

I think it’s easier for us to pain these type of sick individuals as completely evil and void of all and any good. But that’s not the reality. It’s extremely more complex than that.

Israel did, imo, love his daughter, his ex fiancé, her son that he raised as a stepson ( and who so tragically also took his own life almost 6 months after Israel when he was almost 18). Israel loved his mother but they definitely had a complicated relationship yet he still loved her. He loved all of his siblings ( he was the oldest son of ten children).

There are things that occurred to him in his childhood that I’ve never known made public but definitely give anyone with the slightest bit of psychology and pathology understanding a reason to say,’aaaah.’ I am not excusing his heinous crimes, but his formative years give a lot of explanation into the man/monster he became.

His father’s death had a HEAVY impact on him. As he had a very strained relationship with his father that led his father to essentially “disown” him and then forbid all of Israel’s siblings and mother to have any contact with him.

He was an EXTREMELY lonely soul who was very bothered by the fact that he was so inherently different from everyone else he knew. He didn’t like it. He felt flawed, or as he said, “I was very disturbed by it and wondered if I was maybe some demon child.”

I asked his family to request an autopsy so his brain could be studied- I was and am very interested in how formed his prefrontal lobe was. One of his brother did recall Israel falling 8 feet off a ladder and having a head injury from it when Israel was around 12-13 years old. According to his mother and siblings, his odd/secretive/deviant behavior began around the age of puberty - around 14 years old was the age I was given.

IF he did sustain a serious TBI, and wasn’t treated due to his family’s religious beliefs, then add in the EXTREME beliefs he was required to “adhere” to without any option, opinion, or say of his own ( about really anything in his own life) until he was “disinherited” by the dad, plus living his whole life off the grid, away from typical humans with typical lives, I personally think it makes perfect sense that Israel became who he did.

Although always saying he was an atheist, I know for a fact he actually battled back and forth about his belief in God. It was so entrained in him from birth yet the God portrayed to him was an angry, dictator just waiting to send souls to hell. Israel never heard of a loving, gracious, forgiving God.

You can see his spiritual and internal battle of God by what he said 2 nights before capture to his sisters, mom, and then his moms pastor. Israel’s mom told me she was very aware his last two visits to Texas ( Feb and March 2012) that her son was “unraveling” before her eyes and she knew something very dark was happening with and in him. She tried to get him to talk and open, reminding him that God loved him and could forgiven anything.

Israel’s sister ( who was the closest to emotionally as a sibling) said as they stood out on their moms porch, she began telling Israel how God had changed her the last two years and revealed His love and goodness to her. She said, Israel had tears in his eyes and said, “I really am happy for you. I’m glad you’ve found that. I am. But that’s not possible for me, you don’t understand.”

His mom said each visit she would ask Israel to please allow her pastor ( or 1 of 3 pastors) come and pray and talk to him. She said EVERY time israel defiantly said “No! I’m an atheist! There’s nothing to talk about.” However, this night- March 10,2012 ( only 3 days prior to his capture) when on that front porch, she again asked if her pastor could talk to him.

She was shocked when Israel said, “yeah, I will talk to him.”
As her pastor came over, Israel’s mom went inside but his sister remained outside with Israel. This is when Israel says, “no one understands the depths of darkness I’ve gone to. There’s no coming back from what I’ve done. I have to drink every night just to pass out and sleep to get these images out of my head.”

The pastor begins to tell Israel, there is not a SINGLE sin imaginable or unimaginable that God can’t forgive.

At that, Israel looked at the pastor and said, “man, you’re just wasting your time. I’m an atheist.”

The pastor said when Israel said that, he gently put his arm on Israel’s shoulder, looked him in the eyes and said, “Israel, no. It’s not that you don’t believe in Him. It’s that you’re angry at Him. Tell me, when did you decide to hate God?”

According to his sister and the pastor, at that, Israel buckled to his knees and he didn’t just cry, he wept.

After he wept, they said he stood up, bucked out his chest and said “this conversation is over.” He went inside, grabbed some his daughter, his alcohol and cigars, then drove not too far down the road to the hotel he was staying in. Within 3 days he was captured and within 9 months, he was dead from suicide. That pastor is the one that led Israel’s funeral for his family ( only 7 people attended, 2 were pastors).

“T” ( his ex fiancé) said he was in a non stop interval war with himself and the God he “didn’t believe in.”

Oddly enough, the very name “Israel” means: to wrestle with God.

Thank you so much for your post ...
 

Somesleuthin

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Thank you so much for your post ...
I shouldn’t have written “I know him.” I know “of him” from those that loved him, that he loved ( as much as he was capable), and from his interviews.

I never met him. Let me make that clear- and I’m glad I didn’t. He only lived 20 miles from me in WA state. We both moved to Northwest WA in the same year and we both moved south of Tacoma the same year as well. I’d think he was following me but I’m a petite blonde, not likely his “type.”
 

Somesleuthin

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This is old and not even certain I can reply but your post touched me.

I know Israel Keyes. Well, I didn’t know him while alive but “T” ( his ex fiancé and mother to his only child) and his daughter, “L”, are people I’ve come to love and truly care for.

I’ve witnessed the pain that his past and sins has forever impacted his daughter and my friend’s heart and their lives. At the same time, I’ve been told stories by them and as confusing as it is, I have no doubt he loved them.

It’s the very juxtaposition that leaves us baffled- here’s a loving, protective father that even fought for custody of “L” when his ex and my friend “T” began to battle with RX narcotics. He didn’t want their daughter to experience neglect over her mom’s addiction. Yet, here he was hiding his own secret addiction that works had the potential to destroy “L.” I think he had so adequately compartmentalized his dark side ( originally) that he truly never thought it would come out and “L” would have to live with his legacy.

Here’s a father going to grave lengths to give his daughter ( who was then a child) the healthiest upbringing he can, choosing to even raise her alone to protect her yet the same man had no issue kidnapping, raping, murdering and dismembering James Koenig’s only daughter. To me, that shows a complete lack of any empathy!

I think it’s easier for us to believe these type of sick individuals are completely evil and void of all and any good. But that’s not the reality. It’s extremely more complex than that. What he did was pure evil, there’s no doubt about that but why? None of us do anything unless we have a reason. “Because I can” was not a sincere answer. Even he may have not understood what led him to such dark impulses.

Israel did, imo, love many - not only his daughter, his ex fiancé, his “stepson” that he raised as a son ( and who tragically also took his own life almost 6 months after Israel) a young man only 17, just about to start life.
That left my friend with the suicide of the man she deeply loved, had a child with, was engaged to, lived with for 5 years ( with ZERO clue what he was doing in the dark) and less than 6 months later, she lost her only son. “L” lost her dad to suicide at age 11 and her only sibling 6 months later.

Most people don’t endure that type of trauma and loss after a whole life time, yet his daughter experienced all of this at age 11. Thankfully, she’s a resilient, strong, caring young woman despite her father’s sins. She is an inspiration and I am so proud of her.

( before I forget, someone on here mentioned their anger at him over his “ode to murder” suicide poem and how he didn’t leave his daughter anything - want to clarify that he did leave her with two letters. One arrived the day he was discovered dead and the the other one she received the day *after* his suicide. FBI confiscated them but did return them to her.)

I’ll just say he did tell her she was the only bright light in his life and the only human he loved more than himself - he also vaguely apologized because she had asked at the time to not be told what he did, she waited 5 years to find out the extent of his depravity. Yet, like Ive told her, that dark/deviant side of him doesn’t negate the loving, caring, protective father she remembers. I think for her survival, she needs to know he did love her).


Israel also loved his mother but they definitely had a complicated/strained relationship yet he never stopped making efforts to have a healthier relationship with her. He loved all of his siblings ( he was the oldest son of ten children). In fact, one of his siblings has Down’s syndrome and he adored her and her him.

There are things that occurred to him in his childhood that I’ve never read made publicly but definitely would give anyone with the slightest bit of psychology and pathology understanding a reason to say,’aaaah.’ I am not *excusing* his heinous crimes, but his formative years give a lot of *explanation* into the man/monster he became.

His father’s death had a HEAVY impact on him. As he had a very strained relationship with his father that led his father to essentially “disown” him and then forbid all of Israel’s siblings and mother to have any contact with him. He was never able to make peace with his dad nor hear his dad say, “I’m proud of you” which seemed deeply important to Israel.

He was an EXTREMELY lonely soul who was very bothered by the fact that he was so inherently different from everyone else he knew. He didn’t like it. He felt flawed, or as he said, “I was very disturbed by it and wondered if I was maybe some demon child.”

I asked his family to request an autopsy so his brain could be studied ( they didn’t for religious reasons). I was and am very interested in how formed his prefrontal lobe was. One of his brother did recall Israel falling 8 feet off a ladder and having a head injury from it ( a concussion) when Israel was around 12-13 years old. According to his mother and siblings, his odd/secretive/deviant behavior began around the age of puberty - around 14 years old ( at least the age I was given.)

IF he did sustain a serious TBI, and wasn’t treated due to his family’s religious beliefs, then add in the EXTREME beliefs he was required to “adhere” to without any option, opinion, or say of his own ( about really *anything*in his own life- he was DEEPLY controlled) until he was “disowned” by the dad ( because Israel threw his Bible at his dad telling him he was an atheist- this was age 17) plus living his whole life off the grid, away from typical humans with typical lives, I personally think it makes perfect sense that Israel became who he did. It was the perfect storm for the makings of a serial killer and someone with AntiSocial Personality Disorder.
Although he always saying he was an atheist, I know ( from accounts) he actually battled back and forth about his belief in God. It was so engrained in him from birth. Yet, the God portrayed to him was an angry, dictator just waiting to send souls to hell. Israel never heard of a loving, gracious, forgiving God.

You can see his spiritual and internal battle of God during his final Texas visit.
Israel’s mom told me she was very aware during his last two visits to Texas ( Feb and March 2012) that her son was “unraveling” before her eyes. she knew something very dark and bad was happening with and in him. She tried to get him to talk to her and open up, reminding him that God loved him and could forgiven anything.
Israel’s sister ( the sibling he was always closest to emotionally) said as they stood out on their moms porch, she began telling Israel how God had changed her over the last two years and revealed His love and goodness to her. She said, Israel had tears in his eyes and said, “I really am happy for you. I’m glad you’ve found that. I am. But that’s not possible for me, you don’t understand.”
His mom said each visit she would ask Israel to please allow her pastor ( or 1 of 3 pastors) come and pray and talk to him. She said EVERY time israel defiantly said “No! I’m an atheist! There’s nothing to talk about.” However, this night- March 10,2012 ( only 3 days prior to his capture) when on that front porch, she again asked if her pastor could talk to him.
She was shocked when Israel said, “yeah, I will talk to him.”
As her pastor came over, Israel’s mom went inside but his sister remained outside with Israel. This is when Israel says, “no one understands the depths of darkness I’ve gone to. There’s no coming back from what I’ve done. I have to drink every night just to pass out and sleep to get these images out of my head.”

The pastor begins to tell Israel, there is not a SINGLE sin imaginable or unimaginable that God can’t forgive.

At that, Israel looked at the pastor and said, “man, you’re just wasting your time. I’m an atheist.”

The pastor said when Israel said that, he gently put his arm on Israel’s shoulder, looked him in the eyes and said, “Israel, no. It’s not that you don’t believe in Him. It’s that you’re angry at Him. Tell me, when did you decide to hate God?”

According to his sister and the pastor, at that, Israel buckled to his knees and he didn’t just cry, he wept.

After he wept, they said he stood up, bucked out his chest and said “this conversation is over.” He went inside, got his daughter, his alcohol and cigars, then drove not too far down the road to the hotel he was staying in. Within 3 days, he was captured and within 9 months, he was dead from suicide. That pastor is the one that led Israel’s funeral for his family ( only 7 people attended, 2 were pastors). Israel’s daughter did not attend. Suicide is hard as an adult, I’ve been there, but it’s impossible for a child to grasp it.

“T” ( his ex fiancé) said he was in a non stop interval war with himself and the God he “didn’t believe in” their entire relationship. Yet oddly, he was okay with his daughter going to church with people on the reservation.

And, I think it’s an odd coincidence but Oddly enough, the name “Israel” actually
means: “ to war with God.”
 

Somesleuthin

Philippians 4:13
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"Keyes, who says hes been diagnosed with schizoaffective and bipolar disorders, was held in the Chelan County Regional Justice Center from Nov. 26 until 3:20 p.m. Tuesday. Hes charged with second-degree criminal trespass for attempting to enter the Chelan County Courthouse just before midnight on Nov. 25, telling witnesses he needed to get important papers from a judges office.

Prior to that, he told a Chelan County sheriffs deputy who stopped him for a broken brakelight on Nov. 24 that people were following him and wanted to kill him, according to the deputys report. On Nov. 10, he was arrested on suspicion of stealing a $30 jacket from the Wenatchee Shopko. In her report, the stores loss prevention officer wrote that Keyes told her he was homeless, has no money and needed the jacket because its cold outside.

Keyes paid $1,250 bail and was released from jail Tuesday."



Thanks Foxfire for bringing this case over....I watched this episode but I did not internalize "Keyes"...Sure wish we had a photo of this Keyes simply because it sure sounds like he is following some of I.K.'s ways of trying to break in places, and telling the store clerk he was homeless, had no money, cold outside and he needed the jacket....................If it proves IK was the Boca Raton shooter, remember that 1 ladies cell phone was later found in a homeless community close to Miami and also on FB a lady posted she had met IK in Calif. in a well known homeless community, he came late at night to be with other homeless, smoked pot with them and she also stated they begin to believe he was not homeless because he was always clean.....Just my own head thoughts here, I wonder if there is a true person by this name or perhaps someone giving LE the alias name???....I'm sure there is by the news releases but very odd this person shared the last name and spelled like IK
but even when I watched this, I 100% did not feel the young man that was convicted committed the crime because he was offered a super plea deal and he turned that down, he wanted to share he had nothing to hide and I found it very eerie that this person could have passed as IK's twin in early life but all MOO
Could this be the other Israel Keyes who lived in Eastern WA? Yes, there were 2 Israel Keyes who both lived near Port Orchard/Neah Bay. Both were born in January, both were in the Army and stationed at Ft. Lewis ( at different times). The other Keyes also had ties to New York not far from Constable. He also murdered his gf, her young son, then he also committed suicide.
I mean, what are the odds?!
 

Somesleuthin

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His last cruise was with his daughter and GF, but not sure of others he went on

Does anyone know if there is a way to get a list of passengers on a particular ship??? and can you look up the ship he took to see if any person was robbed, killed or perhaps went overboard???
I personally think that isn’t risky enough to give him the adrenaline he wanted. He could take them to a second location. People were all around and anyone missing on a cruise, they’d likely question all passengers and look at surveillance.

But for an amateur, I think it’s a smart idea ( in a twisted way ) lol. “Overboard” lol
 
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