Jacques-need anyone's help in search of..

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by ellen13, Feb 17, 2006.

  1. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    Does anyone know where I can find a picture of jbr with her
    little white bichon dog-jacques? I have looked high and low
    on all different sites and I can't find it, but it is really important
    to me to find. If anyone can help me out, I would be grateful.
    All 3 of my pups are bichons and I want to see which one of
    my dogs resembles jacques the most. I am absolutely fascinated
    with this breed of dog and I can't believe that Patsy would give
    him to the neighbor, even if he did pee on the carpet or that jbr
    didn't put her foot down. They really are lovely dogs.:p Anyone
    else on this board own a bichon?? Sorry if this is a boring thread
    or seems irrelevant to you all but I've been searching like crazy. I
    don't think I'm familiar with all of the important sites.
    Thanks,
    Ellen13
     
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  3. Voice of Reason

    Voice of Reason New Member

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  4. shopper

    shopper New Member

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    I don't own a Bichon but am very interested in getting one. I'd love to ask you some questions and get some input from someone who already has one. Would you PM me with some info? Thanks a bunch!
     
  5. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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  6. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    Thank you so much voice of reason-narlacat directed me to that site but I couldn't find it at first. I appreciate it!
     
  7. trixie

    trixie Former Member

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    In the Ramseys book, Death of Innocence, there is a very good picture of Jauques. It's a pic of Santa and JB and Santa is holding him in his lap. I'm sorry I don't know how to put it on here for you to see. Maybe someone who has the book can scan it or whatever they do so you can see it.

    Also there is a better full size picture of him in the same book. Taken on JB's first day of school. I hope someone knows how to get it from book page to computer screen. I'm a dunce about this stuff.
     
  8. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    Thanks Trixie-I found what I was looking for but I appreciate your response!
    Ellen
     
  9. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Hi Ellen
    I've been meaning to message you about the doggy, anyway I found two pics yesterday, whilst looking for something else... at www.jonbenet-ramsey.com
    There's not many pics of him, the one that Trixie mention's on JB's first day at school and maybe one or two more.
    Go to the gallery and click on miscellaneous galleries, then click on images donated by members.
     
  10. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I have two bichons. The dog in that picture doesn't look very much like jacques. There's another photo that I've seen somewhere. If that is a photo pf Jacques, it doesn't look very much as though Patsy had him cut in the traditional lion-cut.
     
  11. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    Thanks everyone for your help or input on Jacques. I printed one picture out and showed my husband. He looks so much like our "Poe." But, I'm going to continue looking through the sites you showed me.
    Thanks,
    Elllen
     
  12. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Our two Bichons are the same age and we got them at the same time - but they aren't from the same litter. We bought Larna from a top breeder in Scotland and Poppy from a puppy farm in England (long story). Poppy is about half Larna's size - she weighs 6 lbs. She also has a hole in her heart although it shrank and does not appear to be a problem.

    Anyway, from a show-dog POV, Larna is a perfect specimen - she has the stance of a Bichon, thick curly hair, her fur is pure white all over, her nose is black and her eyes clear. The vet said she was top notch for showing or breeding. OTOH, little Poppy does not have the Bichon stance, her fur has a lot of "apricot", her nose is pinkish, her tail hangs down and doesn't curl on her back the way it should do and she has crooked back legs. Still, she has a lovely nature and is way more intelligent than Larna. She's a *real* lap dog and is so tiny that you are barely aware of her curling on your lap (or shoulder if she can get up there without being brushed off). She's quite feline actually.

    well, looking at the photos of Jacques, he looks more like Poppy than Larna. The ramseys said they got their dogs from a pet shop. That is a strict "no-no" here in the UK. In fact, I don't even think pet shops sell dogs or cats anymore (I think they may not be permitted to). Jacque's tail is definitely down in one photo.

    I know there are differences between American Bichons and British Bichons. The American dogs are bigger for a start off.

    I think the Ramseys obviously didn't buy their dog with showing in mind. We have our dogs professionally clipped every two months and Larna looks like a calendar Bichon. No amount of professional clipping will ever make litle Poppy look like a calendar Bichon - she doesn't even look like a Bichon (maybe she isn't!) she looks more like a little poodle.

    Then again - beauty is only skin deep. Poppy is much more endearing than Larna (who has about two brain cells).
     
  13. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    <<I think the Ramseys obviously didn't buy their dog with showing in mind.>>

    Obviously!
    They could barely look after it, let alone show it!
     
  14. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    Jayelles, Thanks for sharing about your babies!!

    A summary of our 3-they all get professionally groomed about every 6 weeks and they get the lion cut, but can look scraggly right before grooming-you're right-American Bichons are much larger than UK Bichons-
    1)Poe (male) is 20 pounds and looks a lot like Jacques, he's a beautiful boy-very loving, athletic, agile
    2)Potter (male) is 10 pounds and he's quite a little scamp-he's our little one man freak show, always barking and totally neurotic, but he makes life interesting!!!!! He likes to be held like a baby. He's our little genius!
    3)Pearl-she's our little princess, but a little overweight at 13 pounds. She's our little eater. She eats like she's never going to eat again.She was a rescue bichon and acts like a wild dog sometimes.
    I am absolutely crazy about my babies!
    Thanks everyone for responding with the Jacques info.
     
  15. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    It's sad because they had such a neat dog! I wonder where
    Jacques is today. They live a long time!
     
  16. shopper

    shopper New Member

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  17. Thinkoflaura

    Thinkoflaura Former Member

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    Hi, Ellen,
    We are a family of dog lovers, and I hope you don't mind me giving you some information and 2 website links related to the Bichon breed and especially Bichon Rescue dogs for adoption. If you have Bichons already, you might really want to think about adopting a dog who needs a good home. I found the Bichon site through a couple who are friends of ours and bought a Bichon because the man is allergic to all dogs and cats. Bichons apparently are not prone to aggravate allergies and don't shed much, so he can live with theirs safely.

    We've adopted a pet through the other site reference, www.petfinder.com and had a marvelous experience with the rescue group who listed him on the national registry of Petfinder, and with our sweet little Cuddles, who was so loving and gentle with our children. Some rescue groups will not place dogs with homes with children younger than 10, but our children had grown up with small dogs, so the stipulation was wavered.

    We own a Peke who is now elderly. We bought as a pup from her breeder. We also owned and dearly loved a rescued PeekaPoo which we rescued through www.petfinder.com, which is a national registry of dogs of all breeds for adoption through organized rescue groups. It helps people who want a dog get in touch with people who have rescued dogs of all breeds for different reasons.
    I highly recommend adopting a young or adult dog which had to be given up by its owner. Our Cuddles was a perfect little guy, and he was classifed as a " Senior" when we adopted him. He passed on from advanced age, and when our Peke passes, we will adopt instead of buying because there are so many dogs who need good homes. :)

    If you want a purebred registered puppy, it will probably take you quite some time to get on a recommended breeder list for a pet quality puppy, which sometimes takes 1-2 years to get the chance to buy one of their pet puppies ( rather than a show dog quality puppy, which is probably impossible to secure unless you are already showing dogs). Our Peke was sold as a pet quality dog because she has a slight underbite, common in the breed. We had her spayed according to our breeder's Buyer Contract.
    You will - probably- be asked to sign a spay/neuter agreement if you buy a pet quality puppy from a reputable breeder, which is standard and is a part of responsible ownership of a purebred dog which is not going to be shown by professional handlers and trainers. We know someone who owned Westies which they had shown, and we also learned that two show dog parents can produce a litter of puppies considered to be pet quality by the breeder when they are sold as puppies. As they mature, they are probably as beautiful as a winning show dog- it is not an exact thing because puppies change so as they grow.

    I talked to our friends with the Bichon and their advice was to go to the following website: www.bichon.org and read, if you aren't already familiar with the site.
    I had a look after reading what you asked about poor Jacques, and then Jayelles correct answer that he was not a good representation of the breed, which I thought has always been obvious to those who have seen Jacques photos and a very good quality, responsibly bred Bichon like our friends dog is.
    This is a great site for all dog owners, especially small dog owners like us, and when our Peke goes to doggy heaven, I am going to see about us getting at least one Bichon, but probably an adult rescued dog. The site is run by the Bichon Club of America, which abides by the regulations of the AKC, lists health problems common to the dogs, and has a list of breeders all over the country which do health certification testing. It also has general housebreaking info and care info about Bichons and other small breed dogs. I learned a few things from reading information gained from their excellent experience.

    I learned a lot from the site about vaccines and questions about their safety for small dogs every year ( except for rabies because it is the law) and also about Greenies, which we feed our elderly Peke. Greenies were recommended by our vet to help keep her little teeth clean between professional teeth cleanings. Since Candi is 13 and has a breathing problem common in Pekes, it's getting risky to put her under even light anesthesia for more than the yearly cleanings. She has a bit of an underbite, making her a pet quality dog, not a show dog, but we love her so much. The underbite causes her to not chew effectively so her teeth get tarter a lot. She won't let me brush her teeth, won't even allow a finger brush with doggy toothpaste in her mouth. She probably would if we had trained her as a puppy but we didn't know to do this.
    The site discusses whether Greenies are a safe chewy treat. I had wondered about them too because the little pieces look like little pieces of plastic when Candi is chewing one of them up. I am not sure if I will be buying any more Greenies. I am going to talk to the vet again about the safety.

    There's a wealth of information on the site.
    If I was going to get this breed, I would only buy from a breeder on their list and who does certified, guaranteed health testing on their dogs. There are a lot of genetic disorders showing up, from what I read. You will see when you read the website. It's very sad and I hope your dogs are healthy.
    This may be what happened with Jacques, since most stores/ breeders without the health certification done on their adult breeders will only replace a puppy if the vet is able to prove that the puppy has a disease or condition which will result in death ( or has caused death) and is inherited. The replacement puppy will be of like quality. A pet store is the worst place to buy a dog, by the way, because the puppies come from puppy mills in most cases, or are overruns from local backyard breeders.
    The Ramseys may not have known this at the time they bought Jacques or they may have taken the easy way out. The price of a pet store dog is comparable to what a top quality breeder charges for a pet quality certified puppy too, which in this city is around $1200-$1500.
    There is no doubt that the best breeders who do certified health testing have waiting lists and do not ever place their puppies in puppy stores.

    Jacques died a couple of years ago or so at the age of 13 or 14.
    The fact that he was not a good physical representation of a breed doesn't mean that he wasn't a very good dog, like one of Jayelles dogs with a pink nose and heart defect is, or that the pup didn't need a loving home. After all, he was already in this world, and needed a home, just as all dogs need loving homes. What it means is that you shouldn't pay top dollar ( anywhere near a thousand dollars) for a dog which has a physical feature which is not usual to the appearance of the breed and a questionable breeding history. The Bichon Org. site tells and shows what the Bichon dog should look like as a puppy and an adult.

    If you don't want the work of raising a puppy, as they are a lot of fun but also a lot of work, I highly recommend that you go the following site and enter Bichon and look at the pages and pages of dogs for adoption. It will break your heart, and also shows that many people were not ready for pet ownership, regardless of which breed a person views. MANY of these dogs are beautiful, purebred, spunky, and housebroken. Rescuers will usually not list a dog until it is fully housebroken, except for recently neutered adult males who already learned to mark their territory and probably won't stop without a great deal of gentle re-training, and maybe not then.
    www.petfinder.com

    One thing that our friends with a Bichon told me ( I cannot verify this for certain because I have not adopted a dog from Small Paws. I think they are Bichon specific rescuers) is that SOME, not all, chapters of Small Paws Rescue, which advertise Bichons on petfinder.com, and are a national large- scale rescue group, buy SOME dogs from puppy mills at their dog auctions, which can be considered by SOME people to be a backhanded way of supporting puppy mills. I am not sure, and I am glad it's not my decision to make. I think one life saved is worth it, but I can't understand how they could know where a puppy mill is and not moving heaven and earth to get the ASPCA and Humane Society to shut it down.

    After our good experience with Cuddles, I can give general guidelines and help about rescued dogs, because I know what a good rescue group does and doesn't do. The dogs are removed from their living situation, usually surrendered by their owners because they can't care for them or have a new baby,etc. and the dog owner contacts the breed rescue group near where they live. No one can remove a dog from a home unless it is through Law Enforcement, so the owners cared enough for their dogs to find a rescue group and give their dog up instead of ditching him or her somewhere or leaving it at a kill shelter. The rescue group has the first owner legally surrender the dog to them, and takes possession of the dog. He or she is placed in a trained volunteer foster home for about a month while health and temperament checks are done. Some dogs don't do well with other dogs, a great many dogs prefer other dogs. Some are afraid of children, etc.
    One thing the rescuers will not do is place a dog which has ever bitten a person. They cannot assume the huge responsibility for a dog which may have been mistreated to the point of not being able to trust people again, or was trained to be aggressive.

    The rescue group is then usually responsible for the dog's well being for all its life. If a person adopts a dog and it doesn't work out, the rescue group which practices good standards will foster the dog at no charge to you, after you have signed the surrender form, and find a good match to the dog's needs and personality and place the dog in another home. I would be very careful if an adoption fee is stated as a set amount. It is customary to donate $150-$200 to cover medical care and the care of rehabilitating the dog who has been attached to its former family. ( not counting the animal flight service should the dog be located across the country from you).
    I would also be very wary if I was NOT asked to fill out a very detailed adoption application, including vet name and phone number and a release form to contact the vet. All rescued dogs are spayed or neutered, usually before they are allowed to go to their new home, with time to heal factored in as well.
    People applying to adopt a dog who have lost a dog due to the dog dying get first preference for any puppies of that breed which might sometimes be available. ( The rescue group verifies the dog's death with the person's vet).
    Usually, though, the dogs are adults of various ages. Should you adopt a sweet young or mature adult dog, you need to be prepared to tell everything about your house, your family and to have a home visit before you get a rescued dog given to you. This is also true of a responsible breeder too. They will investigate your home situation to make sure their puppy goes to a good living situation.
    Usually, rescue group will ask if you can donate if you adopt their dog or dogs ( some are adopted out only as bonded pairs- very sweet).
    Your ability or choice to donate money should be voluntary. I read what a rescuer wrote on her site about the care of a rescued dog and a donation in the $150 range seems appropriate, because someone has housed, fed, had the dog thoroughly examined and probably vaccinated by a vet, possibly had spayed or neutering done, given it heartworm and flea preventative medication, bought toys, a bed and bowls for the dog which will come to you with him or her, and has re-socialized the rescued dog for at least a month before it comes to your home.

    We got our Cuddles from www.petfinder.com and had several wonderful years with our little guy. We chose him because of his spunk, and because he had been SO well loved and cared for by his previous owners. We knew he wouldn't have a lot of years with us but each day was a treat. He passed away from old age in his sleep. He didn't pee on the furniture or anything and was very well trained in commands by his previous owners. We did travel 250 miles to pick him up as I thought he was too old to travel by air pet services. The application we had to fill out was longer than this post. It was 8 pages long and we had to supply all our Peke's vet records, the rescuer group called our vet to find out how well we took care of our present and past pets and called our 3 personal references to find out what kind of people and dog owners our family is, and a rescue volunteer from our area did a surprise home visit to make certain that we had what we said we did in the way of space, someone home during the day, and a fenced yard. Some Rescue Groups require a fenced yard, others will adopt a rescue out to someone without a fence or yard, like an apt. dweller who will walk the dog several times a day every day, rain or shine- it varies a lot. Most will not place a dog with a household where no adult is home for 8 or more hours a day, and they say so up front. Rescued dogs are very special, and we donate to responsible breed rescues instead of adopting a dog at present because we cannot have another dog living with Candi any longer. She can't hear well and is afraid of other dogs now.

    Our Cuddles owners had to give him up when they went to an assisted living apartment, so he was not a puppy mill rescue. The puppy mill rescues are usually adult dogs who are not good breeders or have a health problem, and are either given or sold at a reduced price. The specifics of a former home, such as an owner's name was not disclosed to us, and ours was not disclosed to the previous owners as this was the rescue group's safe practice policy. We did give the group many photos of Cuddles to share with his former parents, so they would know he was safe and happy.

    Each dog will have his or her history written out when you click on the photo of a dog that is interesting at www.petfinder.com.
    Many precious, loving dogs who would be very good pets have been given up due to a sick or elderly owner, a new baby in the family, a move to an unsuitable living situation in a divorce, or at the time of the owner's death. The stories about the dogs will tell you their many stories. It's really sad for the dogs, and they definitely need good permanent homes.
    The photos you have seen of Jacques is of him as an adult dog, not a puppy. :)
    I know this is long, but along with our children, our pet is both a precious and loved treasure and a responsibilty.
     
  18. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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  19. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    Rescue dog sites are great. I am really against buying dogs from breeders....what with all the horror stories about breeding farms.

    Go to your local pound....you'll be surprised to see such wondeful dogs who desperately need a home.
     

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