Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

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Sluether87

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Google "Jahi Mcmath fingers" to see the photos of her apparently decaying body.

If you can stomach it, scroll down to see the photo of her finger with the hole in it and the other finger with the black blister on it.

(I'm married to a M.D. All my friends are M.D. We hang out with M.D.s If you will believe me, I will say they are cautiously waiting for "proof" of her not brain dead, but based on what they have seen thus far, believe she needs to be buried.)

They were all waiting for the "big reveal" and when that didn't happen, they were all like.. Ok. Back to brain dead....when they saw the finger photos, they were all like "ew. That's concerning"

I saw the picture you are talking about and I think that's actually a bit of an exaggerated description. There are clearly no "holes" in her fingers. They look like possible blisters/scrape marks, however I wouldn't like to speculate about what has caused them because I am not a medical professional.
 

Hiandmighty

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One seems to be a blister and one is clearly a hole (IMO :cow: it's a small hole, but definitely a hole.) It isn't healing, I assume, because of her brain dead status, but I'll have to pass that by a M.D. to see what they think about why she's sitting there with a hole on her finger. The md I showed the photos too saw the hole but was more concerned about the "blister" because of the biohazard aspect of it... If it is indeed necrosis.
 

Donjeta

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Dolan is saying that Fisher is no longer impartial because his previous testimony about Jahi being brain dead now makes him personally interested in not being proven wrong (to protect his ego or professional reputation?). I guess Dolan needs to try to discredit Fisher in case he happens to have relevant objections, such as Dolan not presenting results of relevant brain death exams.
 

SwampMama

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Copied from my own post above. It is #7 from Dr. Fisher's response. BBM

7.A “flat” EEG, or electro-cerebral silence is not required for the determination of brain death(see Pediatrics 2011;128e720-740) . The EEG performed on 9/1/14 was not performed in standard conditions, but rather at an apartment and Dr. Machado does note artifacts, which he attributes to movement. Electrical artifacts cannot be excluded as the cause of reported electrical activity, but again, electro-cerebral is not requisite to the determination of brain death.

So basically, complete electrical activity silence is not required to determine brain death.
AND this EEG was performed IN AN APARTMENT which is NOT a standard way of performing this EEG, no way, no how.

Dr. Machado noted the presence of "electrical artifacts" which I presume means other electrical devices in the room or apartment and those devices CANNOT be excluded as the source for the electrical activity noted on the dubious EEG.

BBM below - a definition of "artifacts" from http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1140247-overview
Although EEG is designed to record cerebral activity, it also records electrical activities arising from sites other than the brain. The recorded activity that is not of cerebral origin is termed artifact and can be divided into physiologic and extraphysiologic artifacts. While physiologic artifacts are generated from the patient, they arise from sources other than the brain (ie, body). Extraphysiologic artifacts arise from outside the body (ie, equipment, environment).
 

TJL

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Dolan is saying that Fisher is no longer impartial because his previous testimony about Jahi being brain dead now makes him personally interested in not being proven wrong (to protect his ego or professional reputation?). I guess Dolan needs to try to discredit Fisher in case he happens to have relevant objections, such as Dolan not presenting results of relevant brain death exams.

Which his argument clearly holds no water, as someone could just as easily discredit Dolan's experts as being partial to their own research. That is, the IBRF is dedicated to trying to prove that "we" can cure brain death, and all these experts are either the CEO of that foundation, or paid experts of it. It would be like saying the CEO of Coca-Cola is an unbiased witness in a supermarket taste test of different Cola-flavored soft drinks, because he's a "Cola" lover.

Dolan's "experts" are paid (para)professionals that essentially are lobbyists for what they're trying to prove in this case. Dr. Fischer is an unpaid, appointed, and co-approved proven expert. He has nothing to gain or lose by crediting or discrediting this case. IBRF has everything to gain by trying to disprove brain death. You can't get a broader spectrum of bias and lack thereof between IBRF and Fischer.
 

Hiandmighty

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I just saw an IG photo from Jahi's mother stating Jahi is on $240.00 a week in supplements. This was shown on the page with the fingers on it....

Interesting note...
 

Donjeta

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Considering Jahi hasn't been "awake" in months, I think it would be impossible to perform a "sleep" apnea test.

JMO

Well it depends who you ask I suppose...? If Jahi really responded to her mother's speech by following the requests she was awake at the time.

I can't find the reference to a sleep apnea test, can anyone help?
 

MyBelle

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I apologize. I am not following this logic. Would you mind breaking this down for me?

It is a legal technicality. Civil court is no different that criminal court. Attorneys must raise objections on the record in case the decision is appealed.

JMO
 

Hiandmighty

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Who would they appeal to and about what? The judge wasn't even sure he had jurisdiction anyway for Dolan's latest move....
 

TJL

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Well it depends who you ask I suppose...? If Jahi really responded to her mother's speech by following the requests she was awake at the time.

I can't find the reference to a sleep apnea test, can anyone help?
It's essentially many different "tests" combined together, used on a person to see if they have sleep apnea. Sleep apnea, in layman's terms, is the loss of oxygen to the body while sleeping due to an obstruction (like snoring), or some other cause. It causes - or is related to - many different health problems from the lack of restful sleep, including but not limited to psychosis, obesity, etc. (Jahi's surgery in December was for sleep apnea.) People with diagnosed sleep apnea often must use something called a CPAP machine which merely creates positive air pressure in the mouth and windpipe, preventing the obstruction of airflow while sleeping.

The "apnea" test for brain death measures the level of CO2 in a person's body as it rises over several minutes from lack of respiration. There's a certain point at which a brain will send signals, regardless of anything else, to the lungs and diaphragm to attempt to take a breath AT ANY COST in order to counter the rising CO2 levels. A living brain does this naturally out of self preservation - the will to live. A dead brain will not make any attempt to try to force a breath, and thus the apnea test is used as supporting evidence of brain death.
 

MyBelle

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BBM

Which is odd, because at one point, Dolan claims that Jahi responded to commands by her mother AND BY A PHYSICIAN. I have been waiting to hear about that from a physician. So far, *crickets.*

Several physicians have spoken. Wasn't Jahi tested at Rutgers? Isn't Dr. Charles J. Prestigiacomo the chairman of the neurological surgery department at Rutgers?

researchers had conducted brain imaging and other tests on Jahi at Rutgers University with the assistance of medical school neurologist Charles Prestigiacomo and found she had measurable brain activity.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Videos-show-Mom-coaxing-Jahi-McMath-moving-5797622.php
 

TJL

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Several physicians have spoken. Wasn't Jahi tested at Rutgers? Isn't Dr. Charles J. Prestigiacomo the chairman of the neurological surgery department at Rutgers?

researchers had conducted brain imaging and other tests on Jahi at Rutgers University with the assistance of medical school neurologist Charles Prestigiacomo and found she had measurable brain activity.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Videos-show-Mom-coaxing-Jahi-McMath-moving-5797622.php
Please stop misrepresenting the facts.
One licensed physician has spoken on the record with the court in this matter, from the petitioner's side.

I know I initially said I would go back to lurking, but at the private request of many, I was invited to continue posting here. You seem very determined to misrepresent facts and evidence in a forum that is dedicated to exposing and discussing facts. Why are you even here if you are so determined to misrepresent facts?

physicians.jpg

DeFina is not a physician. He has a PhD (Philosophy Doctorate, NOT a Medical Doctorate) from a diploma mill, and was fired from his last real job for numerous reasons, one being his falsification of his qualifications.

Labkovsky is not a physician. She has a PhD in psychology, and is licensed to perform EEG's on autistic children - NOT to test for brain death.

Machada claims to be a physician educated in Cuba, with credentials in Cuba as such, but if he wants to be considered as a physician to be an expert witness in the USA, he must get credentialed as a physician in the USA first. Until then, he does not meet the USA standards of a physician. This is not a hard thing to do. MANY Cubans educated in Cuba as physicians have come to the USA and received credentials as physicians in the USA. It's not hard. They just have to demonstrate competency to the board of medicine with the accepted standards. By all intents and purposes, he holds nothing more than an "Honorary Doctorate Degree" that we see universities hand out to celebrities and their highest-paying donors. If he wants to be truly identified and accepted as a physician here, he needs to get his credentials.

Prestigiacomo is the single licensed physician.
 

Donjeta

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It's essentially many different "tests" combined together, used on a person to see if they have sleep apnea. Sleep apnea, in layman's terms, is the loss of oxygen to the body while sleeping due to an obstruction (like snoring), or some other cause. It causes - or is related to - many different health problems from the lack of restful sleep, including but not limited to psychosis, obesity, etc. (Jahi's surgery in December was for sleep apnea.) People with diagnosed sleep apnea often must use something called a CPAP machine which merely creates positive air pressure in the mouth and windpipe, preventing the obstruction of airflow while sleeping.

The "apnea" test for brain death measures the level of CO2 in a person's body as it rises over several minutes from lack of respiration. There's a certain point at which a brain will send signals, regardless of anything else, to the lungs and diaphragm to attempt to take a breath AT ANY COST in order to counter the rising CO2 levels. A living brain does this naturally out of self preservation - the will to live. A dead brain will not make any attempt to try to force a breath, and thus the apnea test is used as supporting evidence of brain death.


Thanks, I know what sleep apnea and apnea tests are. What I'm asking is, where does Prestigiacomo refer to a sleep apnea test?
 

MyBelle

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Copied from my own post above. It is #7 from Dr. Fisher's response. BBM

7.A “flat” EEG, or electro-cerebral silence is not required for the determination of brain death(see Pediatrics 2011;128e720-740) . The EEG performed on 9/1/14 was not performed in standard conditions, but rather at an apartment and Dr. Machado does note artifacts, which he attributes to movement. Electrical artifacts cannot be excluded as the cause of reported electrical activity, but again, electro-cerebral is not requisite to the determination of brain death.

So basically, complete electrical activity silence is not required to determine brain death.
AND this EEG was performed IN AN APARTMENT which is NOT a standard way of performing this EEG, no way, no how.

Dr. Machado noted the presence of "electrical artifacts" which I presume means other electrical devices in the room or apartment and those devices CANNOT be excluded as the source for the electrical activity noted on the dubious EEG.

BBM below - a definition of "artifacts" from http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1140247-overview
Although EEG is designed to record cerebral activity, it also records electrical activities arising from sites other than the brain. The recorded activity that is not of cerebral origin is termed artifact and can be divided into physiologic and extraphysiologic artifacts. While physiologic artifacts are generated from the patient, they arise from sources other than the brain (ie, body). Extraphysiologic artifacts arise from outside the body (ie, equipment, environment).

The point is that the tests performed recently show evidence of brain function. If there is evidence of brain function, the brain is not ALL dead, which is the legal, statutory requirement for brain death. iow, an EEG and other tests are not needed to determine brain death but are necessary to determine if the brain has any function.

JMO
 

Spangle

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What experts ????

No experts have stated that there are some brain function remaining. None.
 

katydid23

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Several physicians have spoken. Wasn't Jahi tested at Rutgers? Isn't Dr. Charles J. Prestigiacomo the chairman of the neurological surgery department at Rutgers?

researchers had conducted brain imaging and other tests on Jahi at Rutgers University with the assistance of medical school neurologist Charles Prestigiacomo and found she had measurable brain activity.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Videos-show-Mom-coaxing-Jahi-McMath-moving-5797622.php

But none of them have said they gave her voice commands which she immediately followed. I would think that would be a major deal.
 

al66pine

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The person who posted this may be mistaken but said it is another one of Dolan's med professionals examining the patient to make declaration.
http://www.toysrus.com/buy/classics/operation-4545-2267249

Respectfully, imo, appears some of Dolan's med. declarers have legit credentials
but may have been guided to make stmts about irrelevant info & findings. The rest of them, well, IDK.
operate.jpg
 

katydid23

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Thanks, I know what sleep apnea and apnea tests are. What I'm asking is, where does Prestigiacomo refer to a sleep apnea test?

I wonder if they said that in the copy give to Dolan, and then corrected it since?
 

Donjeta

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Please stop misrepresenting the facts.
One licensed physician has spoken on the record with the court in this matter, from the petitioner's side.

I know I initially said I would go back to lurking, but at the private request of many, I was invited to continue posting here. You seem very determined to misrepresent facts and evidence in a forum that is dedicated to exposing and discussing facts. Why are you even here if you are so determined to misrepresent facts?

View attachment 60919

DeFina is not a physician. He has a PhD (Philosophy Doctorate, NOT a Medical Doctorate) from a diploma mill, and was fired from his last real job for numerous reasons, one being his falsification of his qualifications.

Labkovsky is not a physician. She has a PhD in psychology, and is licensed to perform EEG's on autistic children - NOT to test for brain death.

Machada claims to be a physician educated in Cuba, with credentials in Cuba as such, but if he wants to be considered as a physician to be an expert witness in the USA, he must get credentialed as a physician in the USA first. Until then, he does not meet the USA standards of a physician. This is not a hard thing to do. MANY Cubans educated in Cuba as physicians have come to the USA and received credentials as physicians in the USA. It's not hard. They just have to demonstrate competency to the board of medicine with the accepted standards. By all intents and purposes, he holds nothing more than an "Honorary Doctorate Degree" that we see universities hand out to celebrities and their highest-paying donors. If he wants to be truly identified and accepted as a physician here, he needs to get his credentials.

Prestigiacomo is the single licensed physician.

Did you look at the link I gave you earlier? It contains the CV's and the declarations of other physicians. Several physicians have spoken on record, Mihalenko, Shewmon, Prestigiacomo are all physicians and so is Machado although not licenced in the USA.

However, none of them testify that they've attempted or succeeded in getting Jahi to follow spoken commands or done a neurological status. It's all about EEG findings (that may or may not be an artefact), the presence of brain tissue in the cranium (that isn't relevant according to the guidelines) and Jahi reacting to her mother's voice which seems anecdotal and quite possibly coincidental. If it's just video people are reviewing is there even any proof that the audio track wasn't edited later?

I think the absence of the neurological exam results is very significant in their very absence. JMO.

One of Dolan's experts, I think Shewmon, says that the MRI shows severe brainstem damage as expected from the progress notes from the previous hospital. I took that to mean that Jahi's status probably hasn't changed and she'd still fail the apnea test and the brain stem reflexes.
 
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