Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

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TJL

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Thanks, I know what sleep apnea and apnea tests are. What I'm asking is, where does Prestigiacomo refer to a sleep apnea test?
Ooops. Sorry. I interpreted your "I can't find the reference" as saying you were looking for an explanation :) I don't know where he mentioned it either, but I'm guessing in some report Fischer read as provided to him by Dolan.
 

MyBelle

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Please stop misrepresenting the facts.
One licensed physician has spoken on the record with the court in this matter, from the petitioner's side.

I know I initially said I would go back to lurking, but at the private request of many, I was invited to continue posting here. You seem very determined to misrepresent facts and evidence in a forum that is dedicated to exposing and discussing facts. Why are you even here if you are so determined to misrepresent facts?

I'm not misrepresenting anything. I posted links. The physicians who have spoken are board-certified physicians. Links to their CV's have been posted several times. Your attempts to discredit Dr.
Charles Prestigiacomo and Dr. Calixto Machado are rather lame, imo.

medical school neurologist Charles Prestigiacomo and found she had measurable brain activity.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Videos-show-Mom-coaxing-Jahi-McMath-moving-5797622.php
 

TJL

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Did you look at the link I gave you earlier? It contains the CV's and the declarations of other physicians. Several physicians have spoken on record, Mihalenko, Shewmon, Prestigiacomo are all physicians and so is Machado although not licenced in the USA.

However, none of them testify that they've attempted or succeeded in getting Jahi to follow spoken commands or done a neurological status. It's all about EEG findings (that may or may not be an artefact), the presence of brain tissue in the cranium (that isn't relevant according to the guidelines) and Jahi reacting to her mother's voice which seems anecdotal and quite possibly coincidental. If it's just video people are reviewing is there even any proof that the audio track wasn't edited later?

I think the absence of the neurological exam results is very significant in their very absence. JMO.

One of Dolan's experts, I think Shewmon, says that the MRI shows severe brainstem damage as expected from the progress notes from the previous hospital. I took that to mean that Jahi's status probably hasn't changed and she'd still fail the apnea test and the brain stem reflexes.
Yes, I've seen it all and all the people associated with it. But I'm, as well as everyone else, only concerned with the names of the people who have been willing to go on the record officially with the court and request admission as expert witnesses either through a specific filing, or appointment. Only 4 have done so, which is very telling. Why didn't Shewmon ask to be considered an expert witness? Why didn't Mihalenko? There could be numerous reasons for this, and my opinion would just be speculation. But the FACTS, and only the FACTS, state one single MD (Prestigiacomo) for Dolan's team is legally involved.
 

Hiandmighty

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I don't believe she was ever brought to Rutgers. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
 

MyBelle

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Well it depends who you ask I suppose...? If Jahi really responded to her mother's speech by following the requests she was awake at the time.

I can't find the reference to a sleep apnea test, can anyone help?

No. I doubt one was performed because Rutgers wasn't trying to prove Jahi was dead, they were trying to see if she had any brain function and found some. I don't believe Dr. Prestigiacomo at Rutgers Medical School is quite the quack some are pretending him to be.

JMO
 

Donjeta

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Yes, I've seen it all and all the people associated with it. But I'm, as well as everyone else, only concerned with the names of the people who have been willing to go on the record officially with the court and request admission as expert witnesses either through a specific filing, or appointment. Only 4 have done so, which is very telling. Why didn't Shewmon ask to be considered an expert witness? Why didn't Mihalenko? There could be numerous reasons for this, and my opinion would just be speculation. But the FACTS, and only the FACTS, state one single MD (Prestigiacomo) for Dolan's team is legally involved.


JMO and I'm no lawyer but as far as I'm concerned I think everyone who submitted a signed statement to the proceedings was willing to go on the record officially.
 

katydid23

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Dr. Prestigiacomo is Chairman of the Neurology dept at Rutgers.

medical school neurologist Charles Prestigiacomo and found she had measurable brain activity.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Videos-show-Mom-coaxing-Jahi-McMath-moving-5797622.php

brain 'activity' is not same thing as brain 'function.'


ETA:

Brain death is the complete and irreversible loss of brain function, although there may still be very low levels electrical activity found during testing

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=brain+activity+vs+brain+function
 

TJL

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JMO and I'm no lawyer but as far as I'm concerned I think everyone who submitted a signed statement to the proceedings was willing to go on the record officially.
According to the court, only 4 people did this for Dolan. It doesn't matter what other names or letters Dolan includes in his press releases. If the court doesn't list it on record, then it doesn't exist with the court.

physicians.jpg
 

Donjeta

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According to the court, only 4 people did this for Dolan. It doesn't matter what other names or letters Dolan includes in his press releases. If the court doesn't list it on record, then it doesn't exist with the court.

View attachment 60922


Well I think there might be something missing in your screenshot because Fisher states in his letter that he received Shewmon's statement from Grillo's court. So it seems it must have been noted to exist there at some point.

http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/Fisher_letter_and_Objection_to_Fisher.pdf
 

nrdsb4

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^^^I'm wondering if Fisher was given materials in addition to the filed documents.
 

beach

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Mod Warning:

Removed several posts that were snarky, personal posts. Any more will result in Time Outs.

It's simply not necessary, it's rude and will not be tolerated.

Differing opinions exisit on every thread at WS. If a post and/or particular posters irritates you, you have 3 options:

1). "Scroll & roll"
2). Sign off for a little while, or
3). Make use of the "ignore" feature. (Easy to use - see your User CP.)
 

TJL

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Well I think there might be something missing in your screenshot because Fisher states in his letter that he received Shewmon's statement from Grillo's court. So it seems it must have been noted to exist there at some point.

http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/Fisher_letter_and_Objection_to_Fisher.pdf
It's not missing. Fischer received Dolan's writ of error corum nobis, which included everything Dolan may or may not choose to use as evidence at the hearing. Courts are kind of funny that way. "Nothing exists until the court adds it to the record."

What does that mean? Well, in court there's this thing called, "Discovery." Where one side (typically the prosecution like you see in movies, or in civil court, the petitioner) must provide to the other side every single "thing" - or piece of evidence - the petitioner has that MAY be brought up in court to use as evidence to prove a case. Special attention on the word "MAY". Just because it's provided, doesn't necessarily mean it's actually going to be used in court. Court isn't really like the movies. One side can't actually "surprise" the other side with some completely damning or discrediting piece of evidence. It has to be provided for the other side to get a chance to refute it if need be.

When it comes to expert witness testimony that may or may not be used as evidence to prove a case, a specific process must be followed in order for the court to even allow that person to speak as an expert witness. Dolan knows this process as an attorney very well. A letter from that person included with the initial filing isn't binding, just as much as the petition its self isn't binding - it can always be withdrawn before going to court, or not even brought before the court at all. It merely just informs the other side that this is "evidence" we have in our "big treasure chest of evidence", and MAY or MAY NOT present in court.

When it gets to the point that an attorney actually, truly considers wanting to have that person testify to what they swore in a letter, that expert witness must then request with the court to go on record to be admitted into the court room AS an expert witness. In the rule of law, "best evidence" is always preferred in court. What that means is, if a better form of the evidence you are presenting exists, then you better present THAT specific form of evidence or have a dang good reason why you are not able to. In the case of a "letter" from an expert witness, that form of best evidence is actually verbal testimony from that person's own mouth while sitting on the witness stand under oath. This sort of legal requirement is often a problem in cases where they use a video recording to show a person's face while robbing a bank, etc. The court requires the prosecution to present the ORIGINAL CD, tape, etc of the robbery, not a copy of it. "Best evidence" is the original, a copy is a copy. Sure, a copy would eventually be admitted if the original no longer exists for some reason. But not so long as that original does exist.

Which brings us to: why would someone write a letter as evidence, but then not follow through with a request to be admitted as an expert witness via court filings? Well, they can't be held in contempt of court for lying, if they never present themselves to testify before the court. Nor do they really risk any real economic sanctions such as revocation of their medical license for testifying in a court case wrongly as an expert witness...if they never testify at all.
 

K_Z

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I think we have to be clear that low voltage electrical activity is not the same thing as "brain function".

Remember that even a few lemons can power an LED light, and a potato can generate enough electricity to run a clock. Just sayin'. That's precisely why a completely flat EEG is not part of the brain death criteria. The EEG can, also detect electricity elsewhere in the body, or from sources like the ventilator tubing, as was mentioned before in one of the declarations.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_battery
 

MyBelle

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forthelost

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They seriously tried to do an EEG in an apartment? There's a reason they do those in special rooms.
 

Spangle

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Dolan claims he did in that article. That was followed by DeFina saying that if the brain is dead, there is no electrical activity.

A Potato has electrical activity. I guess it isn't brain dead.

The article doesn't state what Dr. Prestigiacomo is basing his opinion on. However, Dr. Fisher comments that the EEG was not done in standard conditions and that there is some discussion that testing that environment can cause the readings to be effected by the environment. Also noted is that EEG test doesn't determent BD. Maybe because it's known that even Potatoes can be found to have electrical activity.
 

forthelost

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Evidently is was at a level that could be measured. I'll continue to rely on the expert opinion offered by Dr. Prestigiacomo, thanks.

I think the EEG should be repeated in a hospital room devoted to them, as is proper in medicine. I suspect the "activity" is uncontrolled EEG artifacts.
 

MyBelle

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I think we have to be clear that low voltage electrical activity is not the same thing as "brain function".

Remember that even a few lemons can power an LED light, and a potato can generate enough electricity to run a clock. Just sayin'. That's precisely why a completely flat EEG is not part of the brain death criteria. The EEG can, also detect electricity elsewhere in the body, or from sources like the ventilator tubing, as was mentioned before in one of the declarations.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_battery

I think Dr. Prestigiacomo is basing his professional opinion about Jahi's brain function on more than just an EEG just as the other board- certified physicians have done.

JMO
 

TJL

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Evidently is was at a level that could be measured. I'll continue to rely on the expert opinion offered by Dr. Prestigiacomo, thanks.
Dr. Prestigiacomo didn't give an expert opinion on the autistic-child EEG test performed on Jahi's brain dead corpse. He only opined on the MRI and MRA, according to page 140 of Dolan's press release:

http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/McMath_Linked_File.pdf

If you have something you are relying on from Dr. Prestigiacomo in regards to the EEG specifically, which is not published by Dolan, please do share it. Please link and quote lines which specifically show Dr. P giving an opinion on the EEG. Please be as specific as possible so we do not need to hunt for it or interpret it.
 
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