Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

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Donjeta

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It's not missing. Fischer received Dolan's writ of error corum nobis, which included everything Dolan may or may not choose to use as evidence at the hearing. Courts are kind of funny that way. "Nothing exists until the court adds it to the record."

What does that mean? Well, in court there's this thing called, "Discovery." Where one side (typically the prosecution like you see in movies, or in civil court, the petitioner) must provide to the other side every single "thing" - or piece of evidence - the petitioner has that MAY be brought up in court to use as evidence to prove a case. Special attention on the word "MAY". Just because it's provided, doesn't necessarily mean it's actually going to be used in court. Court isn't really like the movies. One side can't actually "surprise" the other side with some completely damning or discrediting piece of evidence. It has to be provided for the other side to get a chance to refute it if need be.

When it comes to expert witness testimony that may or may not be used as evidence to prove a case, a specific process must be followed in order for the court to even allow that person to speak as an expert witness. Dolan knows this process as an attorney very well. A letter from that person included with the initial filing isn't binding, just as much as the petition its self isn't binding - it can always be withdrawn before going to court, or not even brought before the court at all. It merely just informs the other side that this is "evidence" we have in our "big treasure chest of evidence", and MAY or MAY NOT present in court.

When it gets to the point that an attorney actually, truly considers wanting to have that person testify to what they swore in a letter, that expert witness must then request with the court to go on record to be admitted into the court room AS an expert witness. In the rule of law, "best evidence" is always preferred in court. What that means is, if a better form of the evidence you are presenting exists, then you better present THAT specific form of evidence or have a dang good reason why you are not able to. In the case of a "letter" from an expert witness, that form of best evidence is actually verbal testimony from that person's own mouth while sitting on the witness stand under oath. This sort of legal requirement is often a problem in cases where they use a video recording to show a person's face while robbing a bank, etc. The court requires the prosecution to present the ORIGINAL CD, tape, etc of the robbery, not a copy of it. "Best evidence" is the original, a copy is a copy. Sure, a copy would eventually be admitted if the original no longer exists for some reason. But not so long as that original does exist.

Which brings us to: why would someone write a letter as evidence, but then not follow through with a request to be admitted as an expert witness via court filings? Well, they can't be held in contempt of court for lying, if they never present themselves to testify before the court. Nor do they really risk any real economic sanctions such as revocation of their medical license for testifying in a court case wrongly as an expert witness...if they never testify at all.

OK thanks.

I'm rereading his declaration and he doesn't really have much to say that isn't second hand. He refers to Machado's, Defina's, Dolan's statements, two EEG's, Jahi's medical records and the family videos. Either he depends on the trustworthiness of the people who have told him so or hasn't finished reviewing or even received the evidence for himself. I think he would be at a slight disadvantage as a witness as he apparently never even saw Jahi personally.
 

Spangle

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Actually, I haven't seen where Rutgers has made a statement one way or another.

Nor have I read what Dr. Prestgiacomo has to say. I have read what they lawyer claims Dr. Prestgiacomo believes, tested, etc. There is a big, big difference. Such public statements are not under oath. And the lawyer can always say he misunderstood. AND the Dr. can always state he never said, etc.
 

MyBelle

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I think the EEG should be repeated in a hospital room devoted to them, as is proper in medicine. I suspect the "activity" is uncontrolled EEG artifacts.

No need to redo something done at Rutgers, imo.

The tests, conducted at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, included an MRI and EEG, said Dolan and two experts who participated in the news conference by phone.

They purportedly showed intact brain structure, cerebral blood flow and electrical activity. Dolan said the girl has also begun her menstrual cycle, which experts say is inconsistent with brain death since it demands pituitary function.

 

MyBelle

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I think the EEG should be repeated in a hospital room devoted to them, as is proper in medicine. I suspect the "activity" is uncontrolled EEG artifacts.

No need to redo something done at Rutgers, imo.

The tests, conducted at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, included an MRI and EEG, said Dolan and two experts who participated in the news conference by phone.

They purportedly showed intact brain structure, cerebral blood flow and electrical activity. Dolan said the girl has also begun her menstrual cycle, which experts say is inconsistent with brain death since it demands pituitary function.



http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-medical-experts-jahi-mcmath-20141002-story.html
 

Donjeta

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No need to redo something done at Rutgers, imo.

The tests, conducted at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, included an MRI and EEG, said Dolan and two experts who participated in the news conference by phone.

They purportedly showed intact brain structure, cerebral blood flow and electrical activity. Dolan said the girl has also begun her menstrual cycle, which experts say is inconsistent with brain death since it demands pituitary function.


Is "intact brain structure" Dolan wording, reporter wording or expert wording?
Everyone can see that her brain structure is not intact and it would not be expected to be, given that she is in such a state that we are even having this discussion.

If her brain structure was intact she'd be at school now.
 

TJL

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Dolan said the girl has also begun her menstrual cycle, which experts say is inconsistent with brain death since it demands pituitary function.

[/I]
http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/McMath_Linked_File.pdf
Page 3:

Dolan said ... I’m a lawyer, not a doctor...”

Are you now considering Dolan's public statements as medical expert witness testimony, or just interjecting with his statements to support some other form of evidence? Because the word, "inconsistent" does not mean "evidence of wrongful brain death diagnosis." I'll try to make a comparison to what it means, and how I think you're interpreting it incorrectly.

Bob bites into a lemon and says with delight, "Wow. This is really sweet!"
Mary then replies, "That's interesting. 'Sweet' is inconsistent with how a lemon tastes. They're usually quite the opposite, being sour."

Mary is not actually confirming Bob's testimonial that his lemon is sweet. She's just stating, matter-of-factly, that his statement is not what you would typically hear about a lemon. She's not at all saying Bob is wrong, or even right. She could even continue on by saying she'd want to taste it for herself.

Applying this example back to our brain dead corpse, by saying Dolan's statement is inconsistent, they're not agreeing or disagreeing or even saying Dolan is wrong or right. They're merely saying this is not what you would typically hear about a brain dead corpse [we'd like to see that for ourselves].
 

MyBelle

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OK thanks.

I'm rereading his declaration and he doesn't really have much to say that isn't second hand. He refers to Machado's, Defina's, Dolan's statements, two EEG's, Jahi's medical records and the family videos. Either he depends on the trustworthiness of the people who have told him so or hasn't finished reviewing or even received the evidence for himself. I think he would be at a slight disadvantage as a witness as he apparently never even saw Jahi personally.

I don't believe the intent is to use him as an actual witness, the intent is to show that not just one physician has reached the conclusion Jahi is not brain dead so that the Judge will revisit his ruling.

JMO
 

MyBelle

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Is "intact brain structure" Dolan wording, reporter wording or expert wording?
Everyone can see that her brain structure is not intact and it would not be expected to be, given that she is in such a state that we are even having this discussion.

If her brain structure was intact she'd be at school now.

I'm not an expert and will rely on the opinions of the experts at Rutgers.
 

SwampMama

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I just saw an IG photo from Jahi's mother stating Jahi is on $240.00 a week in supplements. This was shown on the page with the fingers on it....

Interesting note...

The interesting part of the $240 in supplements was that it was all being paid cash - i.e donations. I think it was just another ploy to get the donations rolling in since it was understood that while in the hospital in NJ all of her care was being provided free of charge. I noticed the pic was of a store shelf (not the price stickers on the shelf and the sale signs), not a shelf in the hospital room of items already bought.

ETA...I think she was trying to account for the fact that they got 60,000 from an online fundraiser plus much more from churces, people, etc and had NOT had to pay for any hospital care, any transportation costs of jahi (which is what the online fund was supposed to be fore- for the med flight out of Childrens - yet that fundraiser is STILL open although none of it went to transportation costs, to hospitals, etc. She was trying establish that she still needed money to keep coming in even though Jahi was getting free care in the hospital with all of Jahi's needs being provided by the hospital.
 

Donjeta

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I'm not an expert and will rely on the opinions of the experts at Rutgers.

What do they say about her brain structure then?

JMO but one does not need to be an expert to know that her brain structure is not intact. It's clear from having followed the case the slightest bit. Even Dolan's own experts admit she's suffered catastrophic brain damage.

in·tact adjective \in-ˈtakt\
: not broken or damaged : having every part



1
: untouched especially by anything that harms or diminishes : entire, uninjured
2
of a living body or its parts : having no relevant component removed or destroyed:

Brainstem is pretty relevant, I'd say...
 

Hiandmighty

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Her brain clearly has massive issues. Atrophy. Serious atrophy. Liquefaction in parts. Brain stem destruction.

Dolan cancelled the hearing and so that means that as of today, he has nothing (interesting)/ credible to present to the court. He wants several more weeks to try again, and until he does....well, she is still brain dead.

It remains to be seen if he will even try again.
 

TJL

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I don't believe the intent is to use him as an actual witness, the intent is to show that not just one physician has reached the conclusion Jahi is not brain dead so that the Judge will revisit his ruling.

JMO
If that the was the case, then why did Dolan voluntarily withdraw his request to take this matter up in court today? If he wanted Grillo to revisit his ruling based on all this evidence Dolan has, why did he change his mind before the matter ever got before the court? I mean, if I wrote a letter to someone saying I would knock on their door at 9am tomorrow morning and ask why that person's house is painted lime green, then one would think I'm truly interested in finding out why that person's house is lime green.

But if at 8:30am I write another letter to a different neighbor, asking them to go to lime-green house and say I'm not showing up at 9am, don't bother answering my question...then was I ever really interested in finding out from the owner why they painted their house such an atrocious color, or was I just raising a stink over nothing?
 

TJL

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Her brain clearly has massive issues. Atrophy. Serious atrophy. Liquefaction in parts. Brain stem destruction.

Dolan cancelled the hearing and so that means that as of today, he has nothing interesting to present to the court. He wants several more weeks to try again, and until he does....well, she is still brain dead.

It remains to be seen if he will even try again.
Maybe interesting is the wrong word...because this certainly has been at least intriguing, if not interesting. Maybe, "credible"?
 

TJL

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I'm not an expert and will rely on the opinions of the experts at Rutgers.
What about the experts who have nothing to gain or lose from this? I think it's important to consider an unbiased expert witness along side someone with a vested, financial interested in IBRF, don't you?
 

MyBelle

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What do they say about her brain structure then?

JMO but one does not need to be an expert to know that her brain structure is not intact. It's clear from having followed the case the slightest bit. Even Dolan's own experts admit she's suffered catastrophic brain damage.



Brainstem is pretty relevant, I'd say...

A court must rely on expert opinions. Rutgers has seen her and so has Dr. Machado.

Now, Dr. Calixto. Machado, while more objectively clinical in his language than Shewmon, is equally unequivocal–based on objective medical tests–that Jahi is not brain dead. In other words, she is alive.

Machado, a very credentialed neurologist, medical professor, and recipient of the American Academy of Neurology Lawrence McHenry Award in 2005 because of his research in the field. In short, he is a very respected expert in the field of brain death.



http://www.nationalreview.com/human...est-proves-jahi-not-brain-dead-wesley-j-smith
 

MyBelle

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Her brain clearly has massive issues. Atrophy. Serious atrophy. Liquefaction in parts. Brain stem destruction.

Dolan cancelled the hearing and so that means that as of today, he has nothing interesting to present to the court. He wants several more weeks to try again, and until he does....well, she is still brain dead.

It remains to be seen if he will even try again.

I think he wants the medical experts present at the hearing.
 

TJL

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A court must rely on expert opinions. Rutgers has seen her and so has Dr. Machado.

Now, Dr. Calixto. Machado, while more objectively clinical in his language than Shewmon, is equally unequivocal–based on objective medical tests–that Jahi is not brain dead. In other words, she is alive.

Machado, a very credentialed neurologist, medical professor, and recipient of the American Academy of Neurology Lawrence McHenry Award in 2005 because of his research in the field. In short, he is a very respected expert in the field of brain death.



http://www.nationalreview.com/human...est-proves-jahi-not-brain-dead-wesley-j-smith
Do you have any source other than a tabloid zealot who writes books declaring brain death diagnosis is a concocted scheme to exploit organs for profit?
 

TJL

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I think he wants the medical experts present at the hearing.

You don't think that if Dolan really wanted to present those people before the court to testify at a hearing, that he would have made sure they'd be available for the hearing when she scheduled the hearing in the first place? These experts didn't suddenly become unavailable between last week and this week. When this went on the docket for a hearing, both attorneys were asked what day/time would work for them to present their evidence, and they mutually agreed upon a time.

If Dolan's evidence experts suddenly becoming unavailable was the root cause of no hearing, he wouldn't have withdrawn his petition entirely. He would have asked to reschedule.
 

Hiandmighty

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The interesting part of the $240 in supplements was that it was all being paid cash - i.e donations. I think it was just another ploy to get the donations rolling in since it was understood that while in the hospital in NJ all of her care was being provided free of charge. I noticed the pic was of a store shelf (not the price stickers on the shelf and the sale signs), not a shelf in the hospital room of items already bought.

ETA...I think she was trying to account for the fact that they got 60,000 from an online fundraiser plus much more from churces, people, etc and had NOT had to pay for any hospital care, any transportation costs of jahi (which is what the online fund was supposed to be fore- for the med flight out of Childrens - yet that fundraiser is STILL open although none of it went to transportation costs, to hospitals, etc. She was trying establish that she still needed money to keep coming in even though Jahi was getting free care in the hospital with all of Jahi's needs being provided by the hospital.

Interesting, yes I noticed that photo was of a store shelf but if you scroll down more there is another photo and that looked more likely to me to be Jahi's supplements, though I could be wrong.

Yes, mama did say the donations helped with the supplements.

As an aside, I have a nutritionist and she has me on the same brands (and some of the same products, per the second photo)... I assume some of her products are hormones, hormone regulators such as pregnenolone and DHEA etc. The hormone axis in her body very well could be working, even if brain dead, IF supplements are given to help regulate hormones. I assume she is on bioidentical hormone cream as well. Melatonin, etc.
 
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