Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

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jjenny said:
I certainly don't think she is moving anything on command. Her leg did move, but it looked to be some jerky movement, not moving something on command.
She can not breathe on her own.
Spending enormous amounts of resources on a person that can only lay in bed does not seem to me like a good way to spend resources.
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I agree. It appears to me to be an extreme example of confirmation bias. We would need to see about 24 hours worth of continuous video to even begin to make any inferences. These video snips are so short that nothing can be inferred, IMO, other than she has some random spasmodic movements of her limbs. This does not appear to be purposeful movement to me.

Another thought: If Jahi is so able to respond to her mother's voice commands, why is one of the 2 video snips from May 20 of this year?? Have they not been able to capture the right kind of video snip since May, or a more recent example-- say, from yesterday? Why not have a real time internet camera hooked up for the press conference, and have a demonstration in real time?

IMO, there is little to no possibility that independent evaluation of Jahi by court appointed experts will reach the same conclusions that Dolan and the family have reached.
 
Jahi McMath: Family breaks silence on brain-dead girl's condition, stays in New Jersey

Breaking her months-long public silence as her family seeks to overturn a court's finding that her daughter is dead, the mother of Jahi McMath on Friday said the national debate that centers around her 13-year-old daughter has ripped her family apart.
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The mother, with attorney Christopher Dolan, her mother and her brother at her side, vowed on Friday to fight to bring Jahi home.

"I'm homesick. I want to come home. Our family is so separated and broke up," Winkfield said Friday at Dolan's office in San Francisco. "I left here with one suitcase. I didn't know where I was going."
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http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_26659381/jahi-mcmath-family-breaks-silence-brain-dead-girls

Good grief!! Will SOMEONE, some brave reporter, please ask this family WHO is preventing them from returning to California??? NO ONE is preventing them from returning to California. And NO ONE made them LEAVE California.
 
K_Z said:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_26659381/jahi-mcmath-family-breaks-silence-brain-dead-girls

Good grief!! Will SOMEONE, some brave reporter, please ask this family WHO is preventing them from returning to California??? NO ONE is preventing them from returning to California. And NO ONE made them LEAVE California.
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Thank you! I am sure that medjet would help....((seriously that would be least of the worries - getting Jahi to the coast))...then deliver to their home and let them look after her 24/7
 
No movement is going to make a difference to a flat EEG *and* an MRI showing no blood flow to the brain. If the second is proven by multiple doctors, she's a medical miracle. (The first is not always consistent with brain death; a person in a persistive vegetative state will have a flat EEG but an MRI will show that blood is traveling to the brain.)
 
K_Z said:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_26659381/jahi-mcmath-family-breaks-silence-brain-dead-girls

Good grief!! Will SOMEONE, some brave reporter, please ask this family WHO is preventing them from returning to California??? NO ONE is preventing them from returning to California. And NO ONE made them LEAVE California.
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A thousand thanks to you K_Z. Your posts are so concise and your points go straight thru the BS and right to the facts of the matter. Plus your medical knowledge and ability to explain things are so helpful.

I admit, I have little patience with this family and the media circus they seem determined to create. You manage to say so many of the the things I want to say ( without going off on the tangents that I do). Thank you so much for that.

You are so right. Nobody is preventing them from returning home. To me, this is simply a tactic to garner attention and $$$. So far I have not seen where they have ever had to pay for anything. Services have been donated free of charge, plus they have probably gotten well over 100,000 in cash donations from various sources. They have come to expect the money to continue to roll in and it has not. Thus they need a new tactic and not the "chump change" that Uncle Omari spoke of. They want big bucks.
 
K_Z said:
Apparently, Judge Grillo actually held a preliminary hearing Tuesday (Sept 30, the day the court papers were filed).



http://sfbay.ca/2014/10/02/jahi-mcmaths-family-insists-shes-alive/

BBM. If anyone can track down this order from Judge Grillo, it wold be most appreciated! I'm short of time, and interested in what had to say on the record.

I haven't seen anything yet today about court papers filed from the Dolan team of medical experts, or a press conference. Will keep watching.
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Earlier this week, Judge Evilio Grillo suggested in a case management conference that his court lacked the jurisdiction to hear new evidence in the case. He asked the Alameda County coroner and the California Department of Public Health to file statements in advance of a hearing slated for Oct. 9.
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https://www.worldmag.com/mobile/article.php?id=31761

Will continue hunting for docs.
 
K_Z said:
Links to the 2 videos Dolan showed at his press conference.

http://youtu.be/jsSeM0RVKuA

Uploaded today from Dolan Law firm. Video from May 20, 2014

http://youtu.be/yh4YC-XjG9k


http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/10/03/jahi-mcmath-videos-released/
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Sorry, but those videos are not at all convincing. I was in hospice when my father was dying. He was on comfort care, which was essentially a morphine drip, and no sustenance. During the 10 days before he passed, he would have moments where he would have spasms in his legs and/or his arms. He could go for hours with no movements. But then, seemingly at random times, one of his legs would twitch once or twice. My Mom would try and comfort him, talk to him, and it would stop. But if we did nothing, it would also stop. The doctor told us it was involuntary on his part.

The video with Jahi's spasms looks very similar. It looks like Mom just stood beside her and began giving a 'command' during the time she was having the random spasms. The reflexive actions seem to come in small groupings. It did not look at all like a child that was consciously responding to a mothers commands. IMO :moo:
 
yeah and who knows how many videos there are of Nailah asking Jahi to move her legs or do whatever, while nothing happened? Selective publishing can do wonders.
 
Count me in as a strong doubter. Some flim-flamery is going on here. I leave it to our wonderful experts to fill us in as this goes along.

There does need to be independent testing done before this case moves forward.
 
Dolan cited that Jahi’s circulatory system and “all her organs continue to function and world class experts in neurology and brain death” will provide evidence that the one-time 8th-grader at E.C. Reems Academy in Oakland “no longer meets the definition of brain death because she has 'neuralgic function.'”

https://www.scribd.com/doc/241735750/Jahi-McMath-Brain-Death-Petition

I don't think Dolan knows what neuralgic means



http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/neuralgic

neuralgic (njʊˈrældʒɪk)

Definitions
adjective

(medicine) of, relating to, or characterized by neuralgia

neuralgia (njʊˈrældʒɪə Pronunciation for neuralgia )

Definitions
noun

severe spasmodic pain caused by damage to or malfunctioning of a nerve and often following the course of the nerve
 
As an RN since 1987, this was the strangest case I have ever seen. Never in my life had I heard a hospital put out statements so negative about a patient or their family. I sensed below the surface (IMO) some institutional anger focused on the family. The hospital just wanted them out. No MD would declare a patient brain-dead while their brain is still in the acute phase of an injury.
Some time in the immediate aftermath of surgery, her brain was deprived of oxygen; this is an anoxic brain injury (literally "no air"). There were published rumours about how this may have happened but nothing concrete. I question the attorney/family's wisdom in making a legal move that puts financial obligation back on the hospital, as things may come out that the family may regret. I do wonder why this young lady is not at home on her vent and feeding tube. Many families have a loved one at home with outside help paid for by multiple waiver programs from some level of gov't. Perhaps in California the "brain death" test makes her ineligible. However, this family may have to face a move in order to care the best they can for Jahi.
All of the above is my educated opinion.
 
wendybtn said:
As an RN since 1987, this was the strangest case I have ever seen. Never in my life had I heard a hospital put out statements so negative about a patient or their family. I sensed below the surface (IMO) some institutional anger focused on the family. The hospital just wanted them out. No MD would declare a patient brain-dead while their brain is still in the acute phase of an injury.
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It depends on what is known about the patient I think. Eg. if the patient's unresponsiveness could be due to intoxication or hypothermia the guidelines are to wait but if it's known that their brain circulation has been shut off by brain edema or by prolonged cardiorespiratory arrest it is not expected that waiting for the acute phase to pass would make a difference in the prognosis. The brain cells can survive only so long without oxygen and nutrition.

Can you remind me what some of those negative statements were? I don't remember the hospital saying anything bad about Jahi. I remember they said she was unfortunately deceased but that's a sad fact, not a slur, and expressed condolences to the family.

Some time in the immediate aftermath of surgery, her brain was deprived of oxygen; this is an anoxic brain injury (literally "no air"). There were published rumours about how this may have happened but nothing concrete.
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She suffered hemorrhage, a cardiac arrest and consequent brain injury. Later there were brain scans showing brain circulation had been shut off.

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/Fisher+-+Redacted+Rpt_1.pdf
I question the attorney/family's wisdom in making a legal move that puts financial obligation back on the hospital, as things may come out that the family may regret. I do wonder why this young lady is not at home on her vent and feeding tube. Many families have a loved one at home with outside help paid for by multiple waiver programs from some level of gov't. Perhaps in California the "brain death" test makes her ineligible. However, this family may have to face a move in order to care the best they can for Jahi.
All of the above is my educated opinion.
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California is no different from most other states in that determining brain death is a way of determining death and in that a death certificate makes you ineligible for the usual government support programs that are intended for the care of living people. She could be home with her vent and feeding tube, it just has to be financed some other way. But I don't think most other states would be any different.
 
This family, their borderline doctors and their lawyer are really starting to sound like a brain dead version of Terri Schiavo's parents and family. The whole moving on verbal commands, hearing the verbal commands. Seriously all that is missing is following a balloon with her eyes. All of which were proven to be nothing more than wishful thinking by the autopsy. I don't want to sound too harsh, but I just cannot shake the feeling these so called doctors are just using this family, and this family is a combination of money hungry (the uncle) and mentally unable to comprehend the reality of what has happened. The lawyer is inflaming the situation by claiming this poor abused family is unable to return home. Give me a break. Lets get some real qualified neurologists in there to retest this girl and remind the family they left the state because they wanted to, not because they were forced to.
 
In the very beginning, I was puzzled by the hospital and the way the family was dealt with. Well, then I saw the family in action and wondered no more. These are not people you can reason with or who show grace under pressure. They resorted to bully tactics, publishing staff member's private numbers, urging people to call them, holding disruptive protests at the hospital where other children and families are patients. They had no respect for anyone else, including innocent families who had children at that hospital who were also dealing with sick or dying children.

People's true colors come out in a situation of crisis and there is ample documentation on social media and online of the many behaviors and tactics this family has done whenever they feel they are not getting what they want. I am not surprised that Jahi is no longer in the hospital that took her in. The family is disruptive and that is not acceptable in a hospital situation. The family's sense of denial is incredible. They cannot be reasoned with or worked with. they want it their way or there is hell to pay.

Initially i did have sympathy for them. Losing a child is tragic and it is a horrible thing to come to terms with but thousands of people deal with it everyday. Their family is no more special than the millions of families dealing with the loss of a loved one. But there comes a time when you have to accept it and come to terms with it. They are now in a situation of their own making (being "stuck in NJ). Nobody is stopping them from going back to California, nobody is stopping them from pulling the plug and finally allowing Jahi to rest in peace and allow her siblings a chance at a more normal life. I pity her younger sibling who are so caught up in the denial of their mother.

I hate to sound so down on the family. It is not in my nature to be so. But I am tired of their tactics and if they want to continue to care for their dead loved one then they need to do so privately, without expecting the public to finance it and for laws to be rewritten to suit things the way they want them to be.
 
K_Z said:
Links to the 2 videos Dolan showed at his press conference.

http://youtu.be/jsSeM0RVKuA

Uploaded today from Dolan Law firm. Video from May 20, 2014

http://youtu.be/yh4YC-XjG9k


http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/10/03/jahi-mcmath-videos-released/
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That does not look voluntary to me in the least. It is not controlled or how most people start to move idle limbs.

I feel bad because watching her mom it does seem that she wants her to just wake up and can not accept the truth.

Her starting her period does kind of say that something is going on there though.. I just don't know enough about the brain to know if that is accurate or not.
 
mck16 said:
It almost looks real to me. jmo
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I am wondering why the videos are from last spring. This is October. The family has said she is 'improving' and learning to follow commands. So that would mean she is better at doing so now than she was 5 months ago. So maybe they could show a more recent example, with a longer lead up.
 
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