James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation

DeeDee249

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If the huge panties were not on jonbenet until her death then they must have been taken from one of the open xmas packages. After the jab and wiping and decision to redress her. What i can't figure out is why there is blood on the pink gown and white blanket but no urine on the blanket. Was the blanket taken into the wine room at the same time as grabbing the panties but still before the strangling? It's mind boggling. If any adult staged even one aspect then they are capable of much more. It wouldn't suprise me if the blanket and gown started out as staging and even the scream and scraping sound heard by neighbors.

One explanation could be that JB was flipped from her stomach (urine stains on the front of her clothes) to her back when placed on the blanket in the WC. It is possible that the part of the blanket that was pulled over her torso simply did not touch her body closely enough to get wet. I agree the panties likely came from a package in the basement- Patsy did admit she bought them as a Christmas gift for her niece but did not get around to mailing them and said she planned to do so when she got back.
The blood on the nightie is more problematic. She did NOT bleed from the head bash. She DID bleed from the vagina. It would be helpful to know exactly where the blood was- and was it a smear, splatter or just a few drops.
 

DeeDee249

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I could be very wrong, but I am sure I read somewhere that rigor mortis proceeds through the body almost like a wave - either one that travels inwards to the centre (I think this is the case) or outwards to the edge - therefore it will appear in certain areas of the body first and others progressively later and like wise dissipate in some areas first and then eventually in the others, and therefore can be at different degrees in different places as per the autopsy report.

Rigor mortis does not depend on the position of the body, as does Livor mortis. Rigor mortis usually follows a 36=hour arc. It builds over 12 hours, remains in full rigor 12 hours, and dissipates over 12 hours in the same order it builds. It ALWAYS starts in the small muscle groups first (eyelids, jaw) and ends with the large muscles and joints last (thighs). Arms come before legs, etc. So that is why the body will show different degrees in different places BUT for a period of 12 hours it will be FULL in all areas. However this stage for JB's body took place 12-18 hours before the autopsy. The coroner spent only 10 minutes with JB when he came to the house the night of the 26th at 8 pm, and he noted she was in full rigor then, but did not note the degrees of various joints. 12 hours later, when he saw her again, she was on the autopsy table and it had already begun to fade.

When she was on the autopsy table, it was 8 am on the 27th. It had been nearly 30 hours since her approximate time of death of between midnight and 1 am on Christmas night. That would make the coroner's findings of MILD rigor exactly right- it had started to dissipate by then. Refrigeration will slow it down a bit, but not stop it. She was not put in the morgue fridge until she had been dead almost 20 hours and she was in full rigor when that happened.
 

OpenMind4U

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Rigor mortis does not depend on the position of the body, as does Livor mortis. Rigor mortis usually follows a 36=hour arc. It builds over 12 hours, remains in full rigor 12 hours, and dissipates over 12 hours in the same order it builds. It ALWAYS starts in the small muscle groups first (eyelids, jaw) and ends with the large muscles and joints last (thighs). Arms come before legs, etc. So that is why the body will show different degrees in different places BUT for a period of 12 hours it will be FULL in all areas. However this stage for JB's body took place 12-18 hours before the autopsy. The coroner spent only 10 minutes with JB when he came to the house the night of the 26th at 8 pm, and he noted she was in full rigor then, but did not note the degrees of various joints. 12 hours later, when he saw her again, she was on the autopsy table and it had already begun to fade.

When she was on the autopsy table, it was 8 am on the 27th. It had been nearly 30 hours since her approximate time of death of between midnight and 1 am on Christmas night. That would make the coroner's findings of MILD rigor exactly right- it had started to dissipate by then. Refrigeration will slow it down a bit, but not stop it. She was not put in the morgue fridge until she had been dead almost 20 hours and she was in full rigor when that happened.

Thank you, DD!!!!
 

ILikeToBendPages

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Was LE able to "match" the panties found on JonBenet with the ones handed over years later? Same package? Same pattern? Lot number? Could they tell if they were new right out of the package when put on her?

Could JonBenet of worn a pull-up under the size 12's to the Whites? Pasty was facing getting up early and might not want to face a wet child so she'd left her in one? If brand spanking new one were found on her, where are the ones she was wearing before that? Were they ever accounted for?

Did Pasty make JonBenet wear a pull-up and big panties at pageants to avoid accidents?

While I'm open for BDI there is really nothing that put him at the place JonBenet died, But Pasty sure was.
 

DeeDee249

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Was LE able to "match" the panties found on JonBenet with the ones handed over years later? Same package? Same pattern? Lot number? Could they tell if they were new right out of the package when put on her?

Could JonBenet of worn a pull-up under the size 12's to the Whites? Pasty was facing getting up early and might not want to face a wet child so she'd left her in one? If brand spanking new one were found on her, where are the ones she was wearing before that? Were they ever accounted for?

Did Pasty make JonBenet wear a pull-up and big panties at pageants to avoid accidents?

While I'm open for BDI there is really nothing that put him at the place JonBenet died, But Pasty sure was.


While that was certainly possible, we have never seen whether LE matched the panties to the ones on JB.

LHP said that although Patsy had used pull-ups on JB at one point, she had stopped using them and preferred to just change the sheets. We don't know if she had them on at the White's. We don't know if she had them on for the Rs own party on the 23rd (maybe that is why she "didn't feel pretty"?)
I cannot imagine Patsy putting pull-ups on her for pageants. Some of those outfits are pretty skimpy, especially the swimsuits and showgirl outfits.
I agree that there have been no fibers linking BR that were SAID to have been found, BUT there is quite a bit blacked out on those reports. And I cannot imagine another reason to block them out besides listing the NAME of someone who cannot be named.
 

KoldKase

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I actually did ask Kolar about this package of Bloomies Wood handed over to Lacy for the Ramseys, on Tricia's podcast with Kolar.

He seemed completely surprised to learn that had ever happened.

He also had no knowledge of any testing, as well.

That almost depressed me. :tsktsk:
 

robotdog

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I wonder if the batteries were ever tested, not for prints but for a few other things.

1. what was the strength of the batteries that were in the flashlight ?
example - full power? almost out of juice? corrosion on the batteries?


2. were there other batteries in the house that were similiar make and brand of batteries? or was their a recent package of batteries that the batteries that were in the flashlight came from?


one reason i can think as to why the batteries were wiped clean would be
the following

lets suppose the flashlight was needed and when the flashlight was pulled from drawer they realized the batteries were dead.. so someone had to put NEW batteries in the flashlight and because whoever was doing this had just handled a dead body... thus the need to WIPE down everything including the batteries they were about to put in the flashlight

just saying :takeabow:
 

txsvicki

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If kolar believes the flashlight to be the murder weapon, the total wiping of fingerprints indicates panic about any prints linking to anyone.
 

robotdog

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If kolar believes the flashlight to be the murder weapon, the total wiping of fingerprints indicates panic about any prints linking to anyone.



yes,
but it seems to me that if the flashlight was the murder weapon they would have not left it right there...
 

ozazure

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I actually did ask Kolar about this package of Bloomies Wood handed over to Lacy for the Ramseys, on Tricia's podcast with Kolar.

He seemed completely surprised to learn that had ever happened.

He also had no knowledge of any testing, as well.

That almost depressed me. :tsktsk:

When I heard that I was disheartened also. I bet he wished he'd spoken to you all after draft 1!
 

azwriter

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Oh, you're very kind to say this...wait...you don't always agree with me? :dramaqueen:

Well, actually, neither do I. I've been wrong about this case waaaaaaaaaaaaay more than I've been right, through the years. How could we not be without knowing all the evidence or having someone who does give us the theory of prosecution that actually fits it all?

But I do have to make one confession to you, which I've had to make before as the avatar I use does confuse people.

I didn't make that sculpture and demonstration. Believe me, I wish I was as clever as the Scottish wench who did, Jayelles. (A member here and at FFJ, who was an active poster for many years but now is on to dazzle the world with other accomplishments.)

Jayelles thought of and devised the experiment. She spent years waiting until her own little girl grew to the approx. size of JB at six years of age so she could take measurements from her to make the sculptured model. She also collected the various sizes of Bloomies herself on trips to New York. Then she photographed and posted the results.

If you look at the bottom of my posts, I have a link to Jayelles' thread at FFJ where Jayelles documented this. [Edited to correct info on the thread at FFJ.] This Bloomies thread is stuck at the top of the JB forum there, as a reference. Two threads have been combined, though, so you have to go to page five at the bottom to start reading about the 3 dimensional model experiment and see those photos. Here: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7107&page=5 (Ignore my angry rant at the top of the page, please, When Jayelles did her experiment, I went into high dudgeon once again at how much Patsy lied to LE.)

I advise anyone to at least check out her pictures and description of how she conducted this truly brilliant demonstration: you cannot possibly see it and not have questions about why Patsy Ramsey would ever tell LE that JB put those Bloomies on herself and wore them, either to play in that day or to go to the Whites. They would literally have fallen down to her feet. Putting them under clothing would have bunched them up so that they clearly would have been noticeable under her little VELVET pants.

And how on earth would Patsy Ramsey pull JB's velvet pants off while the child slept deeply in her bed and not pull the Bloomies off with them? Wouldn't she have to pull them back onto the child? Would she then not notice how large they were?

And why on earth would the Ramseys withhold this package of size 12-14 Bloomies until the end of 2002 after someone in their employ found it in a packing box in Atlanta with other Ramsey possessions?

And why on earth would Team Ramsey's best shills, Mary Lacy and Lou Smit, neglect to have that package processed for fingerprints and DNA, inside and out, including the remaining six pairs of panties? If they did, it's very odd that Kolar never heard or saw anything about it, at least to me it is.

So we have the unbelievably huge panties found on the child's body; the package from which they came missing for at least five years, if the package turned in years later actually was the original; the mother claiming the child put those on herself and wore them that day/night; and the mother claiming that she never noticed they were so large when undressing and redressing the child in the longjohn pants herself.

For my money, Patsy lied about that, and howdy. I think Jayelles proved that brilliantly.

I just hope that Boulder LE had the expertise and insight to do their own documentation of those Bloomies, with a professional model, expert charts and graphs from companies who manufactured the Bloomies, or at least girl's underwear.

So as many times as I get asked about the unsettling avatar I use, mainly because of the red leggings Jayelles put on the model to give a better contrast to the size of the model and the Bloomies, which people find confusing and scary, I keep it.

I don't want to take credit for Jayelles' brilliant work, though, so I put the link at the bottom of my posts. (Sigh...that woman could make me jealous if I were the jealous type.)

I guess I could make it bigger, now that I think of it. :doh:

Kold, thanks for clearing up ownership of the avatar of the larger bloomies. I'm not going to take back my compliment, you're still a great poster who seems to want this solved very badly. But I will say good job that you continue to use that picture. It is so striking with contrast.

azwriter
 

UKGuy

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I wonder if the batteries were ever tested, not for prints but for a few other things.

1. what was the strength of the batteries that were in the flashlight ?
example - full power? almost out of juice? corrosion on the batteries?


2. were there other batteries in the house that were similiar make and brand of batteries? or was their a recent package of batteries that the batteries that were in the flashlight came from?


one reason i can think as to why the batteries were wiped clean would be
the following

lets suppose the flashlight was needed and when the flashlight was pulled from drawer they realized the batteries were dead.. so someone had to put NEW batteries in the flashlight and because whoever was doing this had just handled a dead body... thus the need to WIPE down everything including the batteries they were about to put in the flashlight

just saying :takeabow:

robotdog,
Could be, or its simply staging, an attempt to suggest that the flashlight belonged to the intruder?

thus the need to WIPE down everything including the batteries they were about to put in the flashlight
Unless they were wiped by someone other than the person who used it, as they were cleaning away forensic evidence?


.
 

KoldKase

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Robotdog, interesting idea about the batteries being changed.

What if the person had on gloves?

That could have occurred before that night, for that matter. It was Boulder in the winter, where wearing gloves outside would be common.
 

robotdog

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Robotdog, interesting idea about the batteries being changed.

What if the person had on gloves?

That could have occurred before that night, for that matter. It was Boulder in the winter, where wearing gloves outside would be common.


Batteries, Batteries, Batteries...
I wish they would have checked if other things such as remote controls, toys, etc to see if they had the same model/make/mfr. batteries. Also was their a package in the house where the batteries that were in the flasshlight came from. usually people buy them in package. sometimes there is a date code on the batteries.

and what was the strength of the batteries, Brand new fullpower? almost out of juice? :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

robotdog

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if other batteries were found in the house in other devices that matched the same as the flashlight batteries, well then it is safe to say the "INTRUDER" cough cough wasnt arbitrarily replacing batteries in other things as remote controls for TV's, Garage door openers, Toys, clocks, etc while at the same time hiding body in basement.

im not sure this helps with anything...yet
 

robotdog

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and if other batteries were found in other devices that matched the flashlight batteries..were they also wiped down ?? I highly doubt it.
 

SapphireSteel

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Everything is neatly explained in my mind, in regards to wiping down, the RN, the staging in general.

The contradictions in the crime scene indicate the workings of two minds.

One, totally unhinged, panicking, praying, gone too far this time.

The other calm, methodical, intelligent, cold and calculating, having to clean up for the first, as well as hide his own prior crimes/involvement.

One person cold and calm enough to realise the only real option is to try to pass JBR's death and molestation off as the work of a "foreign faction" or some other third party.

This person knows the torch belongs in the house yet is trying to pass it off as belonging to an intruder.

That is why the batteries were wiped.

Add in one naive Police Department and your crimes are covered. Theoretically at least.

:moo:
 

ciela

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Everything is neatly explained in my mind, in regards to wiping down, the RN, the staging in general.

The contradictions in the crime scene indicate the workings of two minds.

One, totally unhinged, panicking, praying, gone too far this time.

The other calm, methodical, intelligent, cold and calculating, having to clean up for the first, as well as hide his own prior crimes/involvement.

One person cold and calm enough to realise the only real option is to try to pass JBR's death and molestation off as the work of an intruder.

This person knows the torch belongs in the house yet is trying to pass it off as belonging to an intruder.

That is why the batteries were wiped.

Add in one naive Police Department and your crimes are covered. Theoretically at least.

:moo:

Hmmm seems like it would have just been easier to dispose of Jonbenet's body. No one would have known if or when or how she died. I am still unconvinced, sitting on the fence about the whole affair.
 

robotdog

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this battery situation is still nawing at me. still a crink in my neck.

certainly, if the batteries were put in the flashlight a month before christmas then i cant imagine them not having prints on them. So I guess it leaves the situation to be either the batteries were wiped down that night
or were new batteries put in that night with gloves.

where are the old batteries if they were new batteries put in that night ?
:banghead:
 

RANCH

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this battery situation is still nawing at me. still a crink in my neck.

certainly, if the batteries were put in the flashlight a month before christmas then i cant imagine them not having prints on them. So I guess it leaves the situation to be either the batteries were wiped down that night
or were new batteries put in that night with gloves.

where are the old batteries if they were new batteries put in that night ?
:banghead:
I'm also curious about these batteries. Did they have unreadable prints that were smudged or were they purposely wiped clean of everything? Or something in between? How long does it take for fingerprints disappear on batteries inside of a flashlight? Can forensic technicians even tell us with certainty the answers to these questions?
 
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