JB/wine cellar

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, May 26, 2010.

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Where was JB's body when FW opened the wine cellar door?

  1. Right there but he didn't see it

    22 vote(s)
    31.0%
  2. Somewhere else and was moved later

    14 vote(s)
    19.7%
  3. In the same room but in a different spot,moved later

    22 vote(s)
    31.0%
  4. He didn't open the door or he is lying about what he saw

    13 vote(s)
    18.3%
  1. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Where was JB's body when FW opened the wine celler door?
     
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  3. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    I still don't understand how one didn't see anything and the other saw her instantly.This will bug me until I drop dead.
     
  4. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Good God,officer,why didn't you open that door??
     
  5. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    I have to wonder how many hours FW spent worrying over this same question.
     
  6. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    Right. It was his biggest regret, he said later. He knew that not only did it allow irrevocable contamination of the crime scene, but he was aware that when children are reported missing and later found dead in the family home, that a family member is usually responsible.

    As far as the mystery of why FW didn't see her and JR rushed right up to her (allegedly before the light was even switched on)- here's how I see it.
    FW didn't know where the light switch was because it was in an odd place down low on the wall just outside the room. If he looked in a room that dark (remember- no window) he may NOT have seen her. The room was "L" shaped slightly and to see the body, you'd have to bend IN and look to the left or step into the room. Tests were done in the basement to see if there was enough light coming from the area just outside the wineceller to see inside the dark room. There was enough light that he should have seen her, especially covered with a white blanket- the wineceller wasn't THAT big. But still, unless he had his head bent INTO the room, he may not have seen her.

    I don't think she was moved from another place. Only one livor pattern, and too risky once other people were in the house. BUT I do think that she may have been deeper in the room and JR went during his 2 hour disappearance where Arndt said she "thought" he went to get his mail (not true- the mail came into a slot in the front door- not a 2 hour job) and moved her body closer to the door. If you look at the pics of that room, JB's body where it was found was pretty close to the door. Even in the dark, she'd have been seen.
    So to answer the last part about why JR saw her immediately- well- he knew where she was.
    Think about it- JR supposedly was kidnapped from her own bedroom. When Arndt told JR to take another look around-, wouldn't you have rushed right up to her room first? Arndt said to see is anything of note was missing- a familiar doll or toy or some clothing. These things wouldn't be kept in the basement, and certainly not in the wineceller. Another suspicious thing is that the wineceller was still latched with the small wood latch (that nobody knew about unless they were familiar with that wineceller). The door could not be locked from the inside, so it's not like JB would have locked herself in there (or anyone else). The fact that JR went RIGHT to that room makes me believe he knew right where she was. And by this time, it was 1 PM- about 12 hours after her death. She already had an odor of decomposition. She NEEDED to be found. Waiting for cadaver dogs was not something that the Rs wanted to have happen.
     
  7. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    It's been said that FW knew about the switch because he went there to get some wine for the party.
     
  8. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    There are two things that really don't make sense if the R's staged the scene.Why not leave the window open and why take the tape off her mouth?Unstaging the staging?
     
  9. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Same re the flashlight.
    Let's say RDI and the flashlight was used in the staging or in the murder.Why wipe it clean?It would have been normal for the R's prints to be there,no one would have questioned them about it I am sure,the suspicion started when the R's didn't recognize it.I think they are telling the truth re this one.
    >The flashlight is one + to the IDI theory in my opinion.
     
  10. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    IIRC it was full of dirt,so that means I guess that it was wiped clean of prints before it was used God knows what for.So IMO it makes more sense that the intruder wiped it clean before he put the gloves on in case he forgets/loses it at the crime scene,which happened.
     
  11. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Maybe one of them knew what to look for?
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    More like adding to it.
     
  13. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    It's the MAYBE that bugs me.
     
  14. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    But JR seems the calculated one and this is way too complicated.
     
  15. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Granted.

    Seems simple to me. But taken at face value, wouldn't it be the calculated thing to do, since FW was there with him and would expect him to do something like that?
     
  16. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    Maybe they didn't think about portraying the point of entry as being through the open window.

    As far as the tape- JR and FW were the only ones who allegedly saw that tape and touched it, other than the one who put it there. If JR put it there, he could have pulled off the tape to make sure there was an explanation for his prints being on the tape. Plus he had a witness (FW) who should have seen him pull the tape off. FW has not said (as far as I know) exactly what he saw JR do as he followed him into the wineceller.
     
  17. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Speaking of which,where was Fernie,I read that he was supposed to go with them?
     
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    That fits. Their first round involved the "key" story. They didn't switch to the "open window" story until LS latched onto it and they decided not to go against the grain.

    :clap:
     
  19. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I don't believe he did go with them to the basement at that time. Fernie may have made another previous foray into the basement but as far as I know, only FW accompanied JR into the basement around 1 PM (at Det. Arndt's suggestion) and JR went right to the wineceller and "found" his daughter.

    One thing I recall from Arndt's testimony was that after JB had been brought up she had said to FW not to let anyone near that basement. But instead, either FW went back down himself or others did. (not sure which) maybe someone here remembers.
     
  20. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    Yes, I was wondering about that too.
     
  21. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    I never trusted Arndt so I wonder whether she told the truth in the ABC interview re "knowing" instantly who the killer was,because if true then it makes sense.She had FW guarding the crime scene so that JR doesn't get near it again.But this means that this second big mistake she made is even more stupid and biased than it seemed.Yes I know she didn't have back-up but she could have kept them ALL together until the other officers arrive!
     

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