JBR, the Pineapple, & Benzos: Wendy Murphy on Tricia's True Crime Radio 7/28

[DeeDee249]

She certainly could have gotten the pineapple on her own or with her brother's help, IMO, even though the parents seem adamant she wouldn't have or they would have heard her. That house is huge. I live in about a 1,000 square feet that's two floors and I sleep through my husband rumaging around in the kitchen at night; I'm asleep upstairs & the kitchen is downstairs.

JB's prints were not on the pineapple bowl- only Patsy & BR. Someone else had to have gotten it out of the fridge for her.

 

[DeeDee249]

MOO is Patsy's prints on the bowl dont mean a thing. They could be there because she washed it at some point or unloaded the dishwasher and put it away.

Of course. But SOMEONE other than JB put the bowl on the table- and the only two sets of prints were Patsy & BR. JB's prints were not on there. The thing with prints is that they can't actually be identified as having been left at a specific time. Could Patsy have left her prints when she handled the bowl some other time? Sure. BR's too. However the lack of JB's prints mean someone else had to have put the bowl where she had access to it. You have to look at all the clues together- separately it might seem to have no link. But it is a FACT that JB had the pineapple in her digestive system, and it is a fact that it was matched to the pineapple in the bowl and other pineapple in the fridge. One of the two people whose prints were on that bowl provided the pineapple she ate that night.

 

[nannymo]

I have been thinking about this pineapple. Not that I am taking up for the Ramsey's, but if they went to all this trouble to stage the scene to look like an intruder, don't you think they would have been smart enough to throw the pineapple down the sink and let the garbage disposal grind it all up if it had benzo laced in it? I really think the Ramsey's were smarter than to leave the pineapple out if it contained incriminating evidence. All just my opinion tho so take it for what it is...

 

[DeeDee249]

I have been thinking about this pineapple. Not that I am taking up for the Ramsey's, but if they went to all this trouble to stage the scene to look like an intruder, don't you think they would have been smart enough to throw the pineapple down the sink and let the garbage disposal grind it all up if it had benzo laced in it? I really think the Ramsey's were smarter than to leave the pineapple out if it contained incriminating evidence. All just my opinion tho so take it for what it is...

I am not so sure about that drugged pineapple. Police did testing on it, and JB's toxicology tests were negative too. Police did search the Rs computers for evidence of kiddie *advertiser censored*, the cameras too, so they obviously considered the possibility.

 

[BOESP]

I have been thinking about this pineapple. Not that I am taking up for the Ramsey's, but if they went to all this trouble to stage the scene to look like an intruder, don't you think they would have been smart enough to throw the pineapple down the sink and let the garbage disposal grind it all up if it had benzo laced in it? I really think the Ramsey's were smarter than to leave the pineapple out if it contained incriminating evidence. All just my opinion tho so take it for what it is...

BBM. I'm curious. What do you see as staged events that might make it look like an intruder did it? And what events do you see that suggest an intruder actually did it? TIA

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I have been thinking about this pineapple. Not that I am taking up for the Ramsey's, but if they went to all this trouble to stage the scene to look like an intruder, don't you think they would have been smart enough to throw the pineapple down the sink and let the garbage disposal grind it all up if it had benzo laced in it? I really think the Ramsey's were smarter than to leave the pineapple out if it contained incriminating evidence. All just my opinion tho so take it for what it is...

I completely agree. There are too many things to me that just make it too hard for me to ignore. This is one of them. Some things just defy reason.

 

[questfortrue]

If you recall MidwestMama reviewed klonopin and what kind of tests were necessary to detect klonopin. She discovered that typically a 5-panel test is performed in an autopsy. But klopnopin takes a 7-panel test. Guess we need a drug tester to weigh in here. It’s unknown whether the coroner did the 7-panel test. ([ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=117443&postcount=2"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Was Patsy taking Klonopin?[/ame])

The police did ask JR about taking klonopin after JB’s death, and he admitted to taking it as a “picker-upper” ([ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=117443&postcount=2"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Was Patsy taking Klonopin?[/ame]).

Also, PR possibly took Xanax or paxil for panic attacks, which JR denies she had (panic attacks), describing her as stable as a rock. ([ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=163669&postcount=67"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Was Patsy taking Klonopin?[/ame])

At some point in their investigation police questioned household employees whether PR took diet supplements – herbal supplements that contained ephedrine. (http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/19cpats.html)

What occurs to me is connecting this discussion to the description of housekeeper LHP, that PR was swinging back and forth between moods in December of ’96. Mixing diet pills (even herbal supplements) with xanax, klonopin or paxil would cause that. (Known as the upper and downer affect).
How all this plays into JB’s death, IDK, but it occurred to me that if JB was given klonopin laced pineapple, and that’s a big if, it might not have been anything sinister at all, but for the purpose of getting her to sleep soundly, so that PR could finish packing. Sounds too simple, but I’ve known parents who give their kids cough medicine to get them to go to sleep faster.

 

[bettybaby00]

I am not so sure about that drugged pineapple. Police did testing on it, and JB's toxicology tests were negative too. Police did search the Rs computers for evidence of kiddie *advertiser censored*, the cameras too, so they obviously considered the possibility.

So the tox screen results were part of the publicly available report. It will be interesting to hear Kolar's thoughts on this.

I keep referencing Kolar, but his book is very fresh for me, and its been my "101" regarding a lot of facts on this case. Although I read a good deal here before posting, sometimes it can be confusing to make sense of all the info out there

Anyway, his points on how LE has long suspected that this crime was committed by 2 people, is evidenced by the sometimes contradictory aspects of the evidence. The "organized" vs "disorganized" explanations were spot on.

Plus, it seems PR was no Felix Unger, so it's easy to imagine that "something out of place," would be over looked.

 

[bettybaby00]

If you recall MidwestMama reviewed klonopin and what kind of tests were necessary to detect klonopin. She discovered that typically a 5-panel test is performed in an autopsy. But klopnopin takes a 7-panel test. Guess we need a drug tester to weigh in here. It’s unknown whether the coroner did the 7-panel test. (Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Was Patsy taking Klonopin?)

The police did ask JR about taking klonopin after JB’s death, and he admitted to taking it as a “picker-upper” (Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Was Patsy taking Klonopin?).

Also, PR possibly took Xanax or paxil for panic attacks, which JR denies she had (panic attacks), describing her as stable as a rock. (Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Was Patsy taking Klonopin?)

At some point in their investigation police questioned household employees whether PR took diet supplements – herbal supplements that contained ephedrine. (http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/19cpats.html)

What occurs to me is connecting this discussion to the description of housekeeper LHP, that PR was swinging back and forth between moods in December of ’96. Mixing diet pills (even herbal supplements) with xanax, klonopin or paxil would cause that. (Known as the upper and downer affect).
How all this plays into JB’s death, IDK, but it occurred to me that if JB was given klonopin laced pineapple, and that’s a big if, it might not have been anything sinister at all, but for the purpose of getting her to sleep soundly, so that PR could finish packing. Sounds too simple, but I’ve known parents who give their kids cough medicine to get them to go to sleep faster.

Idk, call me crazy but giving a child a drug like this, so that she sleeps soundly b/c you're busy sounds kinda sinister to me!!!! I think there is a HUGE difference between that, and the cough medicine remedy. I was not a proponent of that either, but at least if a parent does do it, then at least you are giving a kid medication that is formulated for a child!

 

[questfortrue]

Idk, call me crazy but giving a child a drug like this, so that she sleeps soundly b/c you're busy sounds kinda sinister to me!!!! I think there is a HUGE difference between that, and the cough medicine remedy. I was not a proponent of that either, but at least if a parent does do it, then at least you are giving a kid medication that is formulated for a child!

Sinister definition - use in kiddie *advertiser censored* or molestation. I agree, very horrible to give kids anything to sleep, but some people do.

 

[txsvicki]

Whoever wrote that ransom note had to of been on something, imo.

 

[azwriter]

I think the reason why the R's said they didn't feed JonBenet pineapple is because they had already claimed that she was asleep when they got home. If they admitted to the pineapple, they would also be admitting they that lied about JBR being asleep.

I believe you are right on the money with this post eileenhawkeye. They set in stone the story of what happened that evening from when they arrived home. Mom and Dad: JonBenet was "zonked out" asleep and carried up to bed. Burke remembers differently.

It would be quite a leap for the parents to be faced with the pineapple questions by LE and then saying "Oh yes, she was awake. She did have pineapple." And the cops think hmm, then why the other story, folks?

The Ramsey's had to make it appear they were only slightly involved with their daughter the night she died. In the door, carried upstairs and straight to bed. What happened after that they need to make police believe it was a mystery and they were not involved nor saw their child alive again after tucking her in.

I'm sure neither John or Pasty gave any thought to the pineapple and the fact it would show up in an autopsy when they were putting their story to the cops together. To me, they were up all night setting up a crime scene, writing a ransom letter, rehearshing their story and pondering out how to deal with Burke and his role and trying to figure a way to hide the previous sexual molestation JonBenet went through at the hands of her curious brother.

I guess my post pretty well shows I am a BDi all the way with his parents covering up the truth.
JMO

 

[Venom]

Also, What bothers me the most??? Is wouldn't it be much better if they were covering to say, " She woke up and we gave her pineapple as a snack?" The point that they deny it so much, when they know she ate it, means they really don't know how she ate it.
It makes much more sense if they are lying and covering to say, " Sure she came home and wanted a snack and we gave her the pineapple." That is the end of it. The fact that they refute that they gave it to her when it is obvious she ate it means to me that someone else gave it to her or she got up and got it herself.

JMO here, but if the R's would admit to lying about giving her the pineapple, then their credibility is in question. If they were to admit lying about a simple thing as giving her pineapple, what else would they lie about that happened that night?
MOO, I don't see her getting her own pineapple. I have a 6 year old and think it would be a stretch for her to get her own snack, unless it was already prepared and just needed taken out of the fridge.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

JMO here, but if the R's would admit to lying about giving her the pineapple, then their credibility is in question. If they were to admit lying about a simple thing as giving her pineapple, what else would they lie about that happened that night?
MOO, I don't see her getting her own pineapple. I have a 6 year old and think it would be a stretch for her to get her own snack, unless it was already prepared and just needed taken out of the fridge.

And yet my kids have always gone and gotten their own snacks. My son loved pineapple and would go right in the fridge and get it.

Was there an open can in the garbage? Or was it is in the fridge in a bowl? Was it prepped before hand?
I just don't see any reason to lie about the pineapple. It actually works for them to admit it from the beginning. OMO

 

[Cherry]

I think Burke knw they denied her the pineapple and he gave it to her. Then he killed her. But that's just my most humble opinion in this case.

 

[Venom]

And yet my kids have always gone and gotten their own snacks. My son loved pineapple and would go right in the fridge and get it.

Was there an open can in the garbage? Or was it is in the fridge in a bowl? Was it prepped before hand?
I just don't see any reason to lie about the pineapple. It actually works for them to admit it from the beginning. OMO

I'm not attacking you, just saying I find it hard to believe that a six year old could get their own snack of pineapple. Sure, my 6 year old could get her own snack if it was something simple. But there would be no way she could get a bowl out of the high cupboard, or open a can. I think the R's pineapple was fresh (read it somewhere) so it could have been in a container already cut up. But I find it hard to believe she could have gotten her own snack of pineapple, MOO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm not attacking you, just saying I find it hard to believe that a six year old could get their own snack of pineapple. Sure, my 6 year old could get her own snack if it was something simple. But there would be no way she could get a bowl out of the high cupboard, or open a can. I think the R's pineapple was fresh (read it somewhere) so it could have been in a container already cut up. But I find it hard to believe she could have gotten her own snack of pineapple, MOO.

I don't feel attacked. TO me you learn the best when someone questions things and makes you think harder!


AS for the pineapple, My kids do this all the time. They know where every thing is and can use it. I think it still depends on the kid. And since we know that there was a bowl out already, She did not have to do any of that.

I also wonder... Was there any DNA of Burke on the bowl? or pineapple? Or just finger prints?

 

[BOESP]

And yet my kids have always gone and gotten their own snacks. My son loved pineapple and would go right in the fridge and get it.

Was there an open can in the garbage? Or was it is in the fridge in a bowl? Was it prepped before hand?
I just don't see any reason to lie about the pineapple. It actually works for them to admit it from the beginning. OMO

A reason to lie is because both adult Ramseys had already stated JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home and that she was put to bed without awakening. Both adults gave accounts of their activities before they went to bed. They were likely up and active during the time frame JonBenet ate the pineapple. It doesn't matter who got the pineapple out of the refrigerator. Scientifically, JonBenet had to have eaten that pineapple shortly after arriving home, based on scientific testing of the location of her stomach contents. The pineapple had just left her stomach and entered the first inch or two of her small intestine and their it stopped because she died. The Ramsey timeline is not consistent with the scientific facts of digestion.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I understand your reasoning.. But to me it just makes no sense to lie about it. There would be no reason to. She came home, ate a snack and went to sleep.. Still innocuous.

I just don't see the reason if they had anything to do with the pineapple to lie.

 

[BOESP]

And yet my kids have always gone and gotten their own snacks. My son loved pineapple and would go right in the fridge and get it.

Was there an open can in the garbage? Or was it is in the fridge in a bowl? Was it prepped before hand?
I just don't see any reason to lie about the pineapple. It actually works for them to admit it from the beginning. OMO

A reason to lie is because both adult Ramseys had already stated JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home and she was put to bed without awakening. Per usual, their statements don't match the publicly known timeline. Both adults gave accounts of their activities before they went to bed, which suggests they were up and active during the time frame JonBenet ate the pineapple. JonBenet had to have eaten that pineapple shortly after arriving home, based on scientific testing of the location of her stomach contents. The pineapple had just left her stomach and entered the first inch or two of her small intestine and there it stopped because she died. The pineapple in the bowl and in JonBenet's duodenum were physically and chemically consistent right down to the rind, according to statements in Steve Thomas's book. It was natural pineapple, prepared at the grocery, according to Patsy. It doesn't matter if Burke, JonBenet, Patsy or John got the pineapple out of the refrigerator. It's the conflicting timeline and testimonies that's important.