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John Found JonBenet's Body Prior to 911 Call

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by BlueCrab, Nov 7, 2004.

  1. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    John Ramsey lied when he said he never searched the basement prior to the Ramseys calling 911 to report JonBenet missing. And, since John had searched the basement and lied about it, during his search he undoubtedly had also found JonBenet's body and lied about that too.

    During the 1998 police interviews Mike Kane asked John Ramsey if he had searched the basement prior to calling 911:

    MIKE KANE: "Did you go to the basement?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "No. I didn't go to the basement till later."

    MIKE KANE: "Was there a reason?" (for not searching the basement prior to calling 911)

    JOHN RAMSEY: "No."

    But a chair that was blocking the only entrance to the train room (where the broken window was) in the basement proves John was lying when he said he didn't search the basement prior to calling 911.

    When quizzed about his solo visit that morning (John says between 7 and 9 A.M.) to the basement when he snuck away while the cops and everyone else were upstairs:

    JOHN RAMSEY: "Well, when I came down, I mean, one of the things I noticed, okay, that door is still blocked."

    MIKE KANE: "What do you mean it was blocked?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "Well, there were some boxes and there was like a barstool kind of thing sitting there. It wasn't obvious to me that anybody had gone through because I had to move the chair to get in, which I did."

    With that comment, John was caught in a lie.

    In separate searches, Officer Rick French, Ramsey friend Fleet White, and a crime technician, had each been through that door to the train room just minutes after 6 A.M., and BEFORE John said he had to move boxes and a chair so he could go through the door. Neither French, nor White, nor the crime technician, reported a chair blocking their way at 6 A.M.

    John Ramsey obviously got confused and explained what he had to do (move the boxes and the chair) to get into the train room at an earlier time that morning -- prior to 6 A.M., and probably around 3 A.M. -- thus letting the cat out of the bag about his earlier visit to the basement. John had lied about not searching the basement prior to Patsy making the 911 call at 5:52 A.M.

    Thus, while trying to cover up the fact that they had searched the basement prior to calling 911, John blew it in the interviews -- as did Patsy when she lost it while being interviewed by Tom Haney and blurted: "I remember my voice was cracking. I mean it was like 'John', like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know, I hear my voice scream and I hear his scream when he came up from the basement, I mean it was just a horrible thing. You know, it was just -- "

    You can safely bet the farm the Ramseys searched the basement prior to making the 911 call, found JonBenet's body, and staged the crime scene. They were covering for Burke.

    JMO
     
  2. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Why was the chair in the crime scene photos, in place ,blocking the door?
    Fleet went down before Johm, and again after John, there were police down there as well, to be in that photo, it would seem Fleet had to put it there. Not that I am trying to imply he staged anything, however he was the ONLY one down before, and the only one down after, so who else could have put that chair back?
     
  3. TLynn

    TLynn New Member

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    I see where you're going, BC. Help me get the timeline...

    Officer French never reported seeing the broken window - perhaps, he didn't go into the train room.

    So, the chair could have been there at 6 a.m.

    But, FW went searching first thing - would that have been 6:15 to 6:30 a.m.? He stated he saw the broken window - but he didn't report it either, did he?

    John went into the basement around 10 a.m. alone. Isn't that when he said he discovered the (broken) window open about an inch.

    Then around 1 pm John & FW went into the basement (upon Arndt's direction) and JR headed straight for the cellar door.

    When did JR and FW make their trip together down into the basement (when FW told JR he had already seen the broken window?)
     
  4. ManInTheBox

    ManInTheBox New Member

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    That is very possible...though I have to contradict u one the last part. Not negatively but still...no one said JonBenet was killed in the basement. Especially if Burke did do it there is not excuse for JonBent in the basement. I doubt Burke could've carried her down there. SO she might have died anywhere throughout the house and they just stuffed her into the basement. This is a crucial case in which where the body dies proves a vital part. Unfortunately this was never found out.
     
  5. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Sissi,

    Where is a crime scene photo showing the chair in front of the door? I don't think anyone put the chair back in front of the door after John moved it prior to 6 A.M. John is the only person who said the chair was there.

    JMO
     
  6. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado

    NE Book Page 314

    "Like Patsy, John was shown a series of crime scene photographs. One showed a chair blocking the door into the train room in the basement. To get to the broken window in the cellar, someone has to go through that door. Ramsey found the chair blocking the entranceway during his first search of the basement, moved it and then moved it back, he said. " end book quote

    Did Kane and Smit lie? No there is a crimescene picture showing this chair in front of the door. Fleet was down there, after Fleet ,John went down, saw the chair, moved it, went into the room, replaced the chair..later he and Fleet went down, looked at the glass..moved around..John found Jonbenet..brought her upstairs...Fleet went back down..after being told to block the door and that NO ONE was to go back down. After all of these visits, the chair shows up in front of the door in a crimescene photo??

    an idea...maybe..when French first went down there, after exiting that area he moved junk that was blocking the path to another area and placed the chair in front of the door, Fleet is "known" for being a bit ocd (didn't he make Burke's bed) he may have continued to place the chair where he originally saw it?
     
  7. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Good point! I don't believe she was killed in that house, I believe she was kidnapped and returned to lessen the chance for a full investigation.
     
  8. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    TLynn,

    Here's the timeline, with comments, as I see it:

    True, Officer French may not have entered the train room when he searched solo at about 6:05 A.M., but most likely he did enter the room because one of the reasons he went down there was to look for an intruder who might still be in the house, as well as look for a place of entry. He didn't report a chair in front of the door.

    Fleet White searched the house solo at about 6:20 A.M. (just a few minutes after he arrived at the house). Fleet noted the broken window at that time. He didn't report a chair in front of the door.

    John Ramsey said he snuck down solo (no one saw him do it) to the basement but was hazy about when he did it, saying it was likely 7 A.M. to 9 A.M. (but that's doubtful because he was supposed to be waiting at the phone for the kidnapper's call between 8 A.M. and 10 A.M.). If John went down there at all during that part of the morning it was likely 10 A.M. to 11 A.M. John said he was in the basement for only 30 to 60 seconds. John claimed he had to move the boxes and the chair to get into the train room, and it's when he noticed the broken glass and the window open. He said he latched the window.

    John Ramsey and Fleet White searched the basemrnt together at about 1:00 P.M. (they found the body at 1:05 P.M.). The two of them went to the train room first to inspect the broken window, and then headed for the wine cellar. They didn't report a chair in front of the door to the train room.

    It appears John was the only person who saw the chair blocking the door to the train room and removed it. And it appears he would had to have seen it prior to 6 A.M.

    JMO
     
  9. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    The crime scene photos are not all accurate. There is one showing the basement window fully open and we know it wasn't.
     
  10. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    This is true they are not accurate!
    However, the stupid chair,btw it was a barstool, placed in front of the door still remains a mystery. If it wasn't there, why was it there for the photo? If it wasn't there, why was it put back? If it was there ,if John went down first and put it back, then why wasn't it there for French? No answers, really none.
     
  11. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I can only imagine that some of the crime scene photos were attempted reconstructions from witness statements. It's just a guess.

    I'm trying to remember - there is an inaccurate photo of JBR's bedroom too - what was that? Something to do with her bed (or was it the other bed in the room?)

    Crime scene photos are usually numbered. Would the numbering start at 1? Perhaps the earlier photos were the ones taken by the SOCOs and the later ones depict witness accounts?

    As I say, it's just a guess. I can't imagine either way that anyone inside the investigation would enlighten us :)
     
  12. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Jayelles,

    I agree. John said the chair was in front of the door to the train room, so they likely put the chair back in front of the door and took a photo.

    It makes no sense that French and White would have replaced the chair and boxes back in front of the door when leaving the room. It's obvious the chair and boxes weren't there when they separately searched the room just minutes after 6 A.M.

    However, John definitely moved the chair and boxes because he said he did -- but the evidence is clear he didn't do it between 7 and 9 A.M. as he claims. John moved the chair and boxes PRIOR to 6 A.M. because they weren't there when French and White went into that room.

    It means John Ramsey searched the basement BEFORE calling 911 and has been lying about it. Why lie? The only reason to lie about it is they had found JonBenet's body much earlier in the morning -- probably more like 3 A.M., and that time was used to stage the crime scene to protect a Ramsey.

    JMO
     
  13. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    I can't see how you came to this conclusion? Among the friends and family Fleet was the last in the basement. What conversation do you expect John had with the photographers that would suggest they "create" a crime scene?
    IMO nothing here makes sense, and I don't mean you BC, I am speaking only about the crimescene photos, there is no way John played a part in creating them.
     
  14. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    You're probably right actually. When did John say the chair had been against the door? Was it in the April 1997 interviews? If that was the first time he mentioned the chair (as it seems to have been the first time he mentioned a few things which might have been vital), then there is no way the photo could have been a reconstruction.
     
  15. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Sissi,

    I haven't seen a crime scene photo of the chair against the door. How could they make a crime scene photo of the chair against the door after French, White, and others had passed in and out of that room, unless the cops staged the photo on the say-so of John Ramsey? The only person who said they saw the chair against the door was John Ramsey. And why would Fleet White replace the chair against the door, boxes and all?

    JMO
     
  16. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Jayelles the first mention I see of the chair is in the June 1998 interviews, of course this doesn't mean it wasn't mentioned earlier, however it was the first time John was shown that picture.
    BC ,I gave my guess, and that's all I have.

    "kinda" like a math problem where there is no acceptable answer..because it's lacking information...we really don't know what Fleet and French have said to address this chair issue..
     
  17. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Jayelles,

    John did not mention anything about the chair in his 1997 interview. He said it for the first time during the 1998 interviews.

    Here's what John said in the 1997 interviews:

    "And actually I'd been down there earlier that morning, into that room, and the window was broken, but I didn't see any glass around, so I assume it was broken last summer."

    Also in the 1997 interview, it was disclosed that John didn't know that Fleet White had searched the basement shortly after 6 A.M. This interesting exchange took place:

    STEVE THOMAS: "On that trip to the basement, shortly after 1 P.M. on the 26th, Fleet showed you the window, the broken basement window?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "No, I think I was the first one to enter the room."

    STEVE THOMAS: "When you say that you found it earlier that day and latched it, at what time of the day was that?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "I don't know. I mean it would have been probably, probably before 10 o'clock.

    STEVE THOMAS: "Was that prior to Fleet's first trip down?"

    JOHN RAMSEY: "I didn't know he was in the basement. I didn't know that. I mean other than that trip with me."

    JMO
     
  18. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    I was searching around and found this. Interesting, that a student of journalism ,given the rumors that appeared at that time in the media ,chose a position based on those rumors. I wonder how many people can't move past those early lies?
    QUOTE:

    Like my short argument paper, I wrote about the JonBenet Ramsey murder mystery. This time, I went into depth about why I thought the parents were involved. I talked about the Ramsey's lack of emotion when the body of JonBenet was discovered. I raised questions that have no answers leading towards the parents as prime suspects such as why did the Ramsey's hire lawyers thirty six hours after JonBenet was found if they were not guilty. I talked about the actual police investigation. During the investigation, police did not close of the Ramsey residence. John and Patricia Ramsey invited family and friends to their home to congregate into what was a crime scene. It is also disturbing that John Ramsey was allowed to wonder the home with John Fernie and Fleet White. John Ramsey did remove JonBenet from the basement bringing her to the foyer of the home. He removed tape from her mouth and rope from her wrists. By doing this, the men were allowed to tamper with evidence, disrupting the investigation. I explored the option that maybe an intruder had killed JonBenet. I looked at the intruder theory once again. I contradicted this by saying there was no evidence of an intruder due to lack of footprints outside of the Ramsey home. The window in which the Ramsey's claim the intruder must have entered the home through was ruled to be too small for an average size adult to fit through. The evidence is very contradicting and it was difficult to gather evidence to support my point of view. I used rhetorical appeals in my final essay to logically describe how the Ramsey's were capable of murder. I had pictures of JonBenet for an emotional effect. I had credibility with extensive research on the actual murder of JonBenet Ramsey. "
     
  19. TLynn

    TLynn New Member

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    John Ramsey and Fleet White searched the basemrnt together at about 1:00 P.M. (they found the body at 1:05 P.M.). The two of them went to the train room first to inspect the broken window, and then headed for the wine cellar. They didn't report a chair in front of the door to the train room.


    When FW & JR searched the basement at 1 p.m. - I thought John headed straight to the wine cellar - not that he and FW stopped to see the broken window.
     
  20. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    This is what has been reported. However, no one knew Fleet had been down there before, not even John, it wasn't until he talked to Steve Thomas, that he said, "hey I opened that door and didn't see Jonbenet". This is my understanding according to Steve's book, but if you guys have different information on this, please share.
     

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