JonBenet's bond with Patsy

[Angelica]

There is a very big difference between "loving a child too much" as WolfmarsGirl put it and not knowing where you end and your child begins. I too am guilty of "loving too much" my youngest child who came into my life in middle age. She is like an only child as my other kids are adults now and all our attention is focused on her. I am considered to be overly concerned about her safety and get razzed quite a bit by my grown kids about my paranoia. I am able to stay home with her whereas I worked full time while raising my older kids and feel that being able to be involved in every aspect of her life has lead to my being somewhat overly attached to her. She tells us she loves us all the time but I see her face light up when her Daddy comes home. I know my mother did everything for us when we were small but I was Daddy's girl and he was the one I wanted to impress because he wasn't home as much. We do tend to take for granted that which we're sure of. It's not unusual for a little girl to express love for her Daddy, in my opinion it's quite normal. What is not normal is a mother's need to control every bit of a child's life, choosing their clothes and telling them what to think. Seeing a child as an extention of yourself is a very unhealthy thing. When that child begins to rebel and want to go their own way it is devastating for the controller. If narcissism is a factor it wouldn't surprise me if a psychotic break were to occur.

 

[tipper]

I think before one can interpret what Hunter meant by the 'fused' comment one would have to know more about his relationship with his own children.

 

[Imon128]

I think before one can interpret what Hunter meant by the 'fused' comment one would have to know more about his relationship with his own children.

Can you elaborate on this thought a little more? Thanks.

 

[Imon128]

Patsy might have been one who needed HER mother's approval to validate her (Patsy's) self worth. In order for JB to be accepted, for lack of a better word, by Nedra, Patsy might have been trying to control how JB appeared to Nedra. There's a book called "My Mother, Myself", an interesting read. JMO

 

[tipper]

What I meant was if Hunter and his children were very different from each other and clashed on a regular basis; he might consider a parent and child who enjoyed the same activities and enjoyed doing them together to be overly connected or 'fused.'

 

[K777angel]

We can glean some insight into this topic through Patsy's own words in her book. She devoted a whole chapter to her and JonBenet and titled it,
"Like Mother, Like Daughter."

Some lines from this chapter that stand out to me:
(Patsy speaking)

"I knew how much she enjoyed performing, which reminded me so much of dance recitals I had been in as a child growing up...."

"Seven years later, I found myself walking down the same runway, listening to the refrain of "There she is, Miss America..."

"In his remarks Mr. Marks (President of the Miss America Pageant) said that he had met a little blonde angel in a pretty pink dress who looked to him like a future Miss America. He was talking about JonBenet." (She was 3 1/2 yrs old)

"Like her mom and Aunt Pam before her, JonBenet became star struck."

"...just like the contest I'd been in nearly twenty years earlier in West Virginia"

"
Mother-daughter experiences were to be treasures for me now more than ever before."

"They (Nedra and Pam) brought back a white satin cape and collar that could be made into a Ziegfeld Follies costume, reminiscient of the one I had worn in the Miss West Virginia Pageant some twenty years earlier. Like Mother, like daughter."

"JonBenet was looking forward to the day she could wear real evening gowns
just like her mother "

Patsy brings up Miss America 7 times in this one chapter.
She brings up the Miss West Virginia Pageant 9 times.

I believe Patsy and JonBenet were what psychologists call "enmeshed."
Where, particularly in the case of Patsy as mother, she had trouble with boundaries of knowing where SHE left off - and JonBenet began.
The "like mother, like daughter" obsession she had is what I think Alex Hunter was correctly referring to.
Patsy devoted the entire chapter of "like mother, like daughter" to talk of beauty pageants. That's it. And woven all through are numerous comments by her of "just like when I was..."

An interesting tidbit I noticed in this chapter in Patsy's own words can be found on page 57.
She writes: "At the back was a sound system, manned by an older
gray-haired gentleman..."

Not a word commonly used - but one that the writer of the "ransom" note
certainly DID choose to use. In spite of the fact that the kidnapper(s) were supposed to be foreign faction evil men not afraid to kill. Hardly "gentlemen."

 

[popcorn]

"In his remarks Mr. Marks (President of the Miss America Pageant) said that he had met a little blonde angel in a pretty pink dress who looked to him like a future Miss America. He was talking about JonBenet. (She was 3 1/2 yrs old)"

That's pretty interesting since Patsy didn't start the process of bleaching her hair and burning her scalp until she was closer to 41/2. There are pictures of JonBenet at that age and her hair is clearly brown. Patsy in her mind must really believe JonBenet was a blonde. JonBenet knew her hair wasn't natural, wasn't hers, something was wrong with her hair. I think that's why she rejected the My Twinn doll. Poor kid must have felt like she had a halloween mask or costume on most of the time.

There aren't warnings on hair coloring products against using them on infants and children because it's assumed no mother would be that abusive.

:twocents:

 

[K777angel]

Patsy also stated in this chapter in her book that JonBenet participated in NINE pageants.
That is alot of lessons, photo shoots, fittings, practices, beauty prepping and travel for a little 4-6 yr old. I cannot even imagine.

Steve Thomas also says in his book that a group of friends of Patsy's were planning on confronting her after Christmas of 96' regarding their concern over her obsession with JonBenet's participation in the pageants and what that all was entailing.

Smart mothers.

 

[tipper]

Bleaching her hair and burning her scalp? What is your source for that? I don't recall any references to a burned scalp in the autopsy and the most ST could manage was Patsy used a product like Sun-In.

 

[Eagle1]

Was it in Death of Innocence where Patsy talked about JonBenet coming into her room to comfort her, being her best friend?

I think it was just that JonBenet was maturing faster than normal due to all the excitement, leading such a busy life, and she was perceptive enough to want to say by her actions, I'm a different person than you, Mom. At that age she probably wasn't consciously thinking "I got along without you while you were away," but maybe that period of time began her wanting to be herself. I think she just already wanted to be a whole person. I like your comments, K777.

Naturally there was a lot of tension in that family, it was so busy, and most parents wouldn't let a 6-yr old get by with kicking them, but Patsy had been sick, which obviously was hard on the child too.

Only if it's proven beyond a shadow of doubt will I ever believe Patsy killed her. I might not believe it even if that happened and hell froze over. Nobody is perfect or temper-free, but even at her worst moment, she's not a killer.
Or much of a hypocrit. Her faith was genuine enough that she got healed once, maybe twice, of cancer. How many of us could be perfect through such ordeals as she's been through? I know they were evasive.

So are a lot of people when they've secretly encountered a vicious madman with some covert political power. Has anyone read "Daddy's Little Princess" at some nutty-sounding board I forget the name of? I could look up the URL, don't know if it still works. Still have it in my bookmarks.

 

[why_nutt]

Only if it's proven beyond a shadow of doubt will I ever believe Patsy killed her. I might not believe it even if that happened and hell froze over. Nobody is perfect or temper-free, but even at her worst moment, she's not a killer.
Or much of a hypocrit. Her faith was genuine enough that she got healed once, maybe twice, of cancer. How many of us could be perfect through such ordeals as she's been through?

Hint: even atheists experience cancer remissions.

No, Patsy is quite the hypocrite. She even admits as much. She describes attending church since childhood, and yet not truly believing in God until she was 37 years old (when she was "cured" of cancer). For 37 years Patsy played the role of true believer, but did not truly believe. That is the very definition of hypocrisy.

 

[BlueCrab]

Steve Thomas also says in his book that a group of friends of Patsy's were planning on confronting her after Christmas of 96' regarding their concern over her obsession with JonBenet's participation in the pageants and what that all was entailing.Smart mothers.

Is that what Steve Thomas said in his book? I thought the reason for the confrontation was unknown. Do you have a page number?

JMO

 

[Imon128]

I believe Steve's book said some friends were going to confront Patsy, after Christmas, about the 'mega JonBenet' thing. I don't think he elaborated, I could be wrong, of course.

 

[sissi]

Imon,yep,I remember that ,as well. Who were they,Priscilla and Susan?
On a side note,I read something that I can't verify,but found interesting.
The lab that developed the pictures (drugstore?),the guys sold them,and one has recently been arrested for sexual molestation???
Was this a local Boulder photo lab,was it a drug store,was it the "one" where "everyone",perhaps even Patsy,had their pictures developed?
Does anyone know anything about this?
IMO

 

[sissi]

I'm sorry,I thought,Patsy,then photo shoots,and went totally off topic.
I just went searching and did find this tidbit....it wasn't a molestation.

According to police reports, Lawrence Shawn Smith exposed himself near his Boulder home to a juvenile girl while she was jogging. When she was running by, the girl saw him lying on the roadside naked and masturbating. He later exposed himself to another juvenile girl, the report states.

So that's it..July 1997,he was again arrested.
I haven't yet found where the lab was,or if Patsy used it for her pics.
Was it a certified crime lab,or just a drop off the police trusted because they didn't have their own?
JMO

 

[Toltec]

Miss Patsy's cancer treatment started when JonBenet was 3years...going on 4...and when Mrs Nedra Paugh came to stay and take care of Patsy and the children. It was a time when Patsy had a fleeting thought about John's motives when it came to JonBenet. It was a time when Patsy had the swimsuit talk with JonBenet. Patsy told the Enquiror that she and John's sex life suffered during that time.

So what is Miss Patsy thinking? "I am not giving my husband any sex and suppose he looks at our little girl for satisfaction?"

Miss Patsy is thinking that John is messing with little JonBenet...

What kinds of reactions would Miss Patsy have?

She hates John.
She hates JonBenet.
She is jealous of JonBenet?
She resents John, JonBenet...or both?

What drove her to kill JonBenet that night? The molestation suffered at the hands of one of the males in the home? Did Patsy blame JonBenet for the offense suffered by her? Did she become disgusted with JonBenet? Did she figure by killing JonBenet she would somehow save her the trauma of childhood molestation?

You kill someone because you love them so much that you want to save them.

This is my opinion/theory and may not be copied.

 

[tipper]

Miss Patsy's cancer treatment started when JonBenet was 3years...going on 4...and when Mrs Nedra Paugh came to stay and take care of Patsy and the children. It was a time when Patsy had a fleeting thought about John's motives when it came to JonBenet. It was a time when Patsy had the swimsuit talk with JonBenet. Patsy told the Enquiror that she and John's sex life suffered during that time.
...

This is my opinion/theory and may not be copied.

It's been quite a while since I read that article but my recollection of it is not that Patsy had those fleeting thoughts at the time she was having the cancer treatments. It was some time after JonBenet was killed and people suggested John may have been molesting JonBenet that among other reasons she knew it couldn't have happened was because of the sleeping arrangements.

 

[K777angel]

Is that what Steve Thomas said in his book? I thought the reason for the confrontation was unknown. Do you have a page number?

JMO

Bluecrab - pgs. 58-59: "Some friends of Patsy's were concerned about how JonBenet was being groomed for pageants with the heavy makeup, the elaborate costumes, and the recent adding of platinum-dyed hair. It was creating a "mega-JonBenet thing," and some friends had planned to have a talk about it with Patsy after Christmas."

 

[Jayelles]

Here is the article where Patsy discussed the possibility of John abusing JonBenet:-

During The ENQUIRER interview, Patsy admitted she considered and rejected the possibility that John was sexually abusing JonBenet. She openly admitted that during her struggle to defeat ovarian cancer between 1993 and 1994, John and Patsy's sex life suffered. She totally rejects the notion of John abusing JonBenet, but her reasoning is odd.

She said her mother "came to take care of the kids (when I had cancer). She slept in the other bed in JonBenet's room. I mean, if John was coming in to molest JonBenet, you know that's not going to happen 'cause Grandma was right there every night."

http://www.acandyrose.com/04032001enquirer.htm

 

[Imon128]

He probably took her to the basement, or did it in the car when he'd take JB to her little people's school. He would have her at his office with him awhile, then. These are just guesses, of course, but Patsy's logic on that was just plain silly. JMO