JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by otg, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. otg

    otg Well-Known Member

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    Anything that might be used in replacing the water heater (tools, supplies, etc.) could have been in the bucket. We can't see it well because of the lighting, but anything that might have been used, could have been there or lying on the floor in that area. And yes, I imagine that would include some sort of hammer.
     


  2. Annapurna

    Annapurna Member

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    The baseball bat found outside was said to have a blonde hair on it.

    I wonder if perhaps she could have been hit with the bat, but more towards the handle end of it, resulting in the smaller wound pattern.

    Thanks for the great work as always, otg!
     
  3. otg

    otg Well-Known Member

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    If you can find a hammer with a cylindrical head that has a diameter of somewhere between 1/2" to 1", then I would say it's possible. That possibility was discussed somewhere earlier in this thread, but I don't think anyone came up with one that would match that size and shape.

    As a side note, I need to go back and look at the Burke tapes and see exactly what he said about that. Seems like he said something to the effect of, "Someone took a knife and quietly took her down to the basement and (hand gesture)... with a hammer or something." I can't get to it now, so if someone else wants to dig through them...
     
  4. otg

    otg Well-Known Member

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    It's called the "socket," and you're not the first to suggest this. Here's a thread you might be interested in:
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/for...d-on-JonBenet-s-skull-golf-club-or-flashlight
     
  5. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    Thanks otg.

    I will have a read of that.

    BTW I don't know if you have seen this and ruled it out. In the 1998 interview of Patsy Ramsey they are showing her photos and asking her to say if there is anything out of place etc.. Anyway, one of the photos she says something like 'ooh what is that, I don't know what that is' and someone says it's something to do with the garden or lawn sprinkler. I did think they were talking about that rod.
     
  6. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    I guess you already saw that.
     
  7. singularity

    singularity New Member

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    Now that we know this family used a flashlight in the middle of the night to navigate through the house instead of just turning on lights, its location isn't weird no matter who placed it there. I'd like to know how long they were doing this. Its potentially another layer of dysfunction being ignored just because the flashlight has been placed on front street as the murder weapon.



    Like otg and a few others, I think its highly unlikely the flashlight is the murder weapon. Its been labeled that to wrap it up all nice and neat in a simplistic manner.
     
  8. ILikeToBendPages

    ILikeToBendPages Well-Known Member

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    It was a golf club that had a blonde hair attached to it and it was found on the north side of the house. Nothing has ever been said if it was JonBenet's or any prints on the club.
     
  9. No it's not

    No it's not that simple

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    Regarding the abrasions found on JBR, check out marker 0:16, can anyone measure the distance between the two ends of that thing? I recall seeing that thing in the boiler room *(?)? This walk-through video from Paula Woodward was published on August 10, 2016. There are 3 more videos in the media link.

    [video=youtube;t9GtZcVVWCc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9GtZcVVWCc[/video]

    -Nin

    * Not sure, if it was in the boiler room, but it was in the basement
     
  10. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    heya otg, bringing this over here

    PR says in one of her LE interviews that she stored sone of the pageant trophies in the train room.
    Is it possible she was hit with one of those?
     
  11. RaeL

    RaeL New Member

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    From otg post page 35:

    I was more than disappointed when I saw that Spitz was going to be involved in this project. I had such high hopes for it (and still do to a certain extent). But Spitz's misinformation has (and probably will) derail any meaningful discovery on the actual weapon used as a bludgeon. His statements from March, 2000 (link), and the above sketch are just wrong. I know Meyer described his visual impression of the depressed fracture as "rectangular," but the autopsy photo that was later leaked shows that it is actually an ellipse:



    He also said the the above linked interview about the depressed fracture: "That piece of bone that was knocked out, remained attached on a hinge,and was bendable." (Does he know what the word "comminuted" means?)




    Thank you for this post, otg.... After following this case for years, and repeatedly hearing the skull fracture described as being rectangular shaped, I had never questioned that. Even seeing the photos of JBR skull - it has always looked like a rectangular shape to me. However, after reading your explanation and looking more closely, I can now see the oval shape that you describe. In other photos it shows some material that veiled the left corner under a flap of mucus or tissue. This shocks me. To have looked at something so many times and never seeing that small bit that was hidden. Thank you for sharing this. I can easily see now how a pipe could cause that injury.
     
  12. RaeL

    RaeL New Member

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    This is from the 3rd post on this thread, SBM, in case there are other readers like myself, who only read the most recent pages! Thanks otg for all your research, so patiently laid out for us...


     
  13. otg

    otg Well-Known Member

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    (rsbm)
    Hopefully, you saw the post on the "CBS" thread showing the difference between Spitz's sketch of the fractures and the sketch made of the actual autopsy photo. I can't believe it's so difficult for anyone else to see the difference. The bruised membrane is the pericranium (or periosteum) and the edge shown in the autopsy photos is where her scalp was cut to allow it to be peeled back exposing the skull. Since it is semi-transparent, the back portion being left over the depressed fracture made the "hole" look different. Dr. Meyer has to know this now, but of course he does not comment publicly and he's now retired from the coroner position.
     
  14. RaeL

    RaeL New Member

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    I did see that, which led me back to look at the first pages of this thread to hopefully see more photos, and boy oh man was I rewarded with Photos, and your detailed account of the shape of the head wound. Better late than never, is my motto! I so appreciate your posts :).
     
  15. treeseeker

    treeseeker New Member

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    On the walk-through video of the R's basement, shown on the A&E presentation this evening, they showed the shower with a head on a hose, I think. I wish I'd been paying closer attention. I'm thinking it could be the correct shape to cause an oval head wound? If it was decent quality, could it cause the head wound without it breaking?
     
  16. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Okay so Burke demonstrated what he thought happened. I think its really what happened and what he described are very similar. I could see a type of hammer causing the damage or a pipe. That's the first picture I've seen of the pipes.(excuse me while I enjoy another beer and rest for the night. I will promise to continue this tomorrow! We had a recovery of a child and that's something to celebrate! Thank you for responding!Always enjoy reading your insights!:tyou:
     
  17. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    A flashlight seems pretty good at making a nicely curved break ...

    [​IMG]
     

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  18. Heymom

    Heymom New Member

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    I wonder why they didn't fill the skull with ballistic gel....it would have been a more accurate representation of an actual human skull with a brain inside it.
     
  19. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    This isn't exactly the same thing but it shows the basic idea of why you end up with a curved skull crack when an object with a rectangular profile smashes through a domed object, like a skull. It certainly shows why one should not expect a perfect rectangular shaped hole to be left in the skull.

    [video=youtube;He_BtW9OQ8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He_BtW9OQ8M[/video]
     
  20. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    A few more images helping to convey why one should not expect a perfect rectangular shaped hole in the skull.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

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