Throwing these out for discussion, if need be. I don't know if these points have been discussed before or not. There will be more on the way if'n you all want. I find this odd. I just can't imagine that PR would not have just run into the Fernie's and dropped off the gift. After all, JBR was sleeping and they could have told Burke that they were NOT going in. 0109 1 LOU SMIT: You stayed in the car at the Walkers? 2 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, the Walkers, yeah. I think we 3 all three stayed in the car. 4 LOU SMIT: And then you go to the Stines? 5 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. 6 LOU SMIT: How far a drive is the Stines? 7 JOHN RAMSEY: Two minutes, three minutes. 8 Pulled up out the front of their house. Patsy 9 certainly went in, I don't think I did. I don't 10 remember if Burke did or not. I don't think 11 JonBenet did. But I don't remember for sure. 12 It wouldn't have been unusual for Burke to go in 13 because that was his buddy, Doug. 14 LOU SMIT: Did you have a gift for Doug? 15 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. I know Patsy 16 probably, but I don't recall. And then we debated, 17 we had a gift for the Fernies and we debated 18 whether we should go over there. But that's 19 probably 15 minutes away and we wanted to get home 20 and to bed. And we didn't know what time we would 21 get back. So we left the Stines and drove home. 22 LOU SMIT: So your concern then was mainly you 23 didn't want to spend that extra time (INAUDIBLE). 24 Why? 25 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it was 15 minutes over 0110 1 there and both the kids might want to go in and it 2 would have been half an hour, 45 minutes before we 3 went home. And we had to get up early next 4 morning. They were tired. They had been up all 5 day. So we said, well, we'd do that when we got 6 back. Not duct tape? I always thought it was... 0166 1 wide black tape, which I immediately took off. Her 2 lips were blue. 3 LOU SMIT: Where were you standing when 4 you 5 did that, John? 6 JOHN RAMSEY: I was, she was like right 7 there and I was right here. 8 LOU SMIT: So you hadn't gone into the wine 9 cellar, you were still on the north side of her at 10 that point? 11 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. Um hmm. 12 LOU SMIT: And the duct tape, do you remember 13 if it was adhered all the way to her mouth? 14 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. It wasn't really duct 15 tape, it was -- well I'm sure you've seen it. But 16 it was like black. t wasn't electrical tape. It 17 was kind of white, black, unusual tape, I thought. And...what is this, or what could it be (typo?) 0167 1 arms; they were tied up behind her head. 2 LOU SMIT: Were they tied tight? 3 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, very tight. 4 LOU SMIT: They were very tight? 5 JOHN RAMSEY: I noticed a spot in her coat, 6 below the surface.