judith phillips?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by michelle, Sep 24, 2005.

  1. michelle

    michelle Joy comes in the Morning

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    can someone tell me who this is?? and what are the patsy letters?
    Thanks!!
     
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  3. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    She's a former friend of the Ramseys. Knew them in Atlanta, then they all ended up in Boulder. Quite a good photographer. They fell out when Susan Stine was acting as Patsy's doorman. Also she was upset when the Ramsey lawyers wrote and told her she couldn't sell any photos she had of Patsy and JonBenet. She was in tight with the Enquirer for a while and sold them photos she'd taken of Patsy and JonBenet. Eventually she divorced the Atlanta husband and married Tom Miller. She thinks Patsy killed JonBenet. According to Frank Coffman who was once her friend in Boulder (he posted as Masked Man):
    Posted by MaskedMan on May-04-00 at 11:19 AM (EST)
    Steve Thomas presents many unsourced and uncorroborated stories.

    On page 5, he presents the improbable story that JonBenet was chilly at a restaurant, but Patsy wouldn't let her put on a jacket
    because "You're still on show." Steve Thomas didn't identify his source, but I know that this is one of Judith Phillips' urban
    legends.

    When I aksed Judith about where and when this episode happened, she said that she didn't know and that she didn't see it
    herself. She said someone else had seen it. I asked her, "Who saw it?" She wouldn't tell me. So, this is just an unverified
    third-hand rumor.

    Judith has done this repeatedly. She's lied to me about what she supposedly knows. She would claim to have first-hand
    knowledge about something, but then she'd change her story when I tried to pin her down. For instance:

    Judith told me that Priscilla White had told her that John Ramsey tried to discourage Fleet White from entering the wine cellar
    room on Dec. 26, 1996. I believed that story for a long time. She was the source for a story to that effect in the National
    Enquirer of April 1997. When I found out later that that never happened, I asked Judith how Priscilla could have been so wrong
    about that. Then, Judith admitted that, uh, well, she didn't hear the story directly from Priscilla, but from someone else...
    _____________
    The Patsy Letters were before my time. They were a series of emails supposedly written by Patsy. My understanding is they were not from Patsy but there is still much controversy about who might have actually written them. Jameson has been suggested - she denies it. Susan Stine has also been proposed. If you dig around you can find info on them.
     
  4. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    A couple of points:-

    As photographer, Judith Phillips OWNED the rights to the photographs she took of the Ramseys. She was entitled to do what she liked with them.

    Quite frankly, I'm surprised Tipper has used a Coffman quote to provide "information" about Judith Phillips (although I'm sure she has her reasons!). IMO, Frank Coffman is NOT a reliable source of information. He used to be a member here and many of us personally witnessed his histrionics and hissy fits.

    Frank Coffman is the poster who said that Burke was gay (he was about 12 years old at the time). I think that about sums him up.
     
  5. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Jayelles,

    Masked Man, a free-lance writer in Boulder, had a lot of first-hand information about the JonBenet murder. I enjoyed debating him and I wish he was still a member at WS.
     
  6. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    You mean that's worse than saying he murdered his sister or has Aspergers syndrome?
     
  7. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Former Member

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    I have a link in my faves list, and will try to remember to come back here and post it for you.

    I'm one that feels Patsy very probably did write them. During the Grand Jury, she would have been rather nervous, and so was some man who kept phoning her, imo. She said her immediate family didn't want her saying anything but she had to out with some of it, so she made it so ambiguous nobody can tell for sure who's the author. Why would the family not want her to say anything? It's been my tentative theory all along that it's someone rather powerful, who would be believed instead of her.

    http://jbr_subculture.tripod.com/cheesyApril1999.htm
    http://www.acandyrose.com/patricia1999phenomenon.htm

    I think Judith Philips also said, according to one of the books, that JonBenet seemed to have changed a lot, had lost her look of childhood innocence, when the family returned from a Texas trip. To Houston? Who knows, though, if her impressions were correct or just gossip. It's an unusual kind of gossip, though.

    If the links don't work, I'll look again, let me know, but since they turned blue I'm assuming they're okay, have a lot of reading to catch up on.
     
  8. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Yes I do. Put it this way - I'd like to know the basis for HIS statement.

    We all know WHY some people consider Burke a potential suspect in his sister's murder (opportunity IS a valid reason for considering someone a potential suspect) and I don't think that questioning whether he may be on the autistic spectrum based upon reports of his behaviour is so odd OR awful. Burke displayed little emotion regarding his sister's death. I have taught several pupils over the years with Aspergers (all boys) and without exception, they have been delightful. In fact, some people believe that we ALL have Aspergers to some extent. Others believe that people with autism are actually superior to the rest of us. I know a Headmaster with Aspergers Syndrome and he is brilliant.

    From a teaching perspective, I am completely unfazed by Aspergers. The strategies for dealing with a pupil with Aspergers work beautifully.

    What bothers me more is the fact that Bluecrab says Coffman has a lot of "first-hand" information about the Ramsey case. Is BC suggesting FC has first hand knowledge of a 12 year old's sexuality?

    *****

    I find it interesting that where you are fastidious about insisting on impeccable sources for all anti-Ramsey statements, you chose to quote Frank Coffman's OPINION in response to a request for information about Judith Phillips.

    I remember numerous lively discussions involving MaskedMan, but one thing was abundantly clear and that was that he didn't like anyone disagreeing with him. When that happened, he either threw a hissy fit or flounced off in a huff.

    I'd also like to note that Frank Coffman claimed that John Ramsey assaulted him.
     
  9. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Of course not. I was referring to the evidence and to the behaviors of the people in the case. Right or wrong, Coffman told it straight out and forcefully as he saw it. I remember at one point jameson offered MM free membership if he'd come over and post on her forum. He tried it and quit in disgust as jameson apparently tried to edit his posts.
     
  10. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I remember she wished him a pox on his pecker :)

    With regard to your above statement - "as he saw it" is the operative phrase. He may have lived in Boulder and been at the cutting edge of things, but that does not make facts out of his opinions.

    I believe he changed his opinions according to whom he was pally with at the time. He fell out with people rather too easily.
     
  11. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/1215jonn.shtml

    […]



    Coffman, 50, said he was phoned at about 11 p.m. Friday by a friend who knows of his interest in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. That friend told him that John Ramsey, the slain girl's father, was in downtown Boulder.

    Ramsey was with his 22-year-old son, John Andrew Ramsey, and several other people at a restaurant on Pearl Street. The eatery is being remodeled by Ramsey's friend, Boulder restaurateur Jay Elowsky.

    Coffman grabbed his camera and walked one block from his apartment to a building being converted into a new Pasta Jay's restaurant. Ramsey, 55, has been a business partner of Elowsky in the past.

    "If John Ramsey wants to come over to my neighborhood, I'll take a picture of him any time," Coffman said. He said his confrontation began when Ramsey and others emerged from the restaurant at the corner of 10th and Pearl streets.

    Ramsey was with his 22-year-old son, John Andrew Ramsey, and several other people at a restaurant on Pearl Street. The eatery is being remodeled by Ramsey's friend, Boulder restaurateur Jay Elowsky.

    Coffman grabbed his camera and walked one block from his apartment to a building being converted into a new Pasta Jay's restaurant. Ramsey, 55, has been a business partner of Elowsky in the past.

    "If John Ramsey wants to come over to my neighborhood, I'll take a picture of him any time," Coffman said.

    He said his confrontation began when Ramsey and others emerged from the restaurant at the corner of 10th and Pearl streets.

    "From 15 feet away I start to take a picture, but before I can, he shouts ... and he runs right at me at full speed, like a bull seeing a red flag," said Coffman.

    Coffman said Ramsey grabbed him.

    " He started tussling with me, pulling on my jacket and pulling my arm. He had both hands on me, and he looked like he was going to take me down."

    It was at that point, Coffman said, that a man he recognized as Mike Bynum -- an attorney and Ramsey family friend -- intervened by saying "Don't, John, it's not worth it."

    Coffman said John Ramsey then proceeded to a nearby parked car as Coffman went ahead and took their picture

    […]

     
  12. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I thought Frank Coffman was OK until he made the comments about Burke's sexuality. I was shocked. Any grown man who could put that out about a child loses all credibility as far as I am concerned.

    I also think it was hypocritical of him after his rants against jameson for her suggestions about Ariana Pugh being in child porn pictures.

    These are kids. What kind of adult would post stuff like that about a kid on the World Wide Web? It's a form of abuse IMO. I cannot stand bullies.
     
  13. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Frank Coffman of Boulder selling a satan mask?

    Edited to add - this seems to be Frank Coffman of Boulder's business (making latex masks). Is this where the hat "masked Man" came from.

    I thought he was a journalist!

    http://www.latexmaskcentral.com/swap2.php
     
  14. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Wasn't it also Frank Coffman who put up "Wanted" posters of John Ramsey in Boulder.....? I'm pretty sure jameson said that.
     
  15. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    Who can forget Masked Man....who did a complete 180 after being grabbed by John Ramsey. He became Pro-Ramsey and also claimed to be a Journalist. I took him to task and told him that as a Journalist...he shouldn't be so biased.

    Remember that it was Frank Coffman and Judith Phillips who took pictures down in the Ramsey basement....Can anyone tell me how he got access?
     
  16. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Former Member

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    There's a thread here about some pictures taken in the basement, Nehemiah's, titled "JB Pictures in the Basement", etc.

    Have you seen it, and are you maybe talking about the same ones, Toltec? Police wanted to know who took the pictures.
     
  17. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    Jayelles, that may be the way it works in the UK, but it is not the way it works here.

    Judith did not arbitrarily own the rights to Patsy & JonBenet's images, even if she was the photographer. If Patsy didn't sign a release then Judith didn't have the right to do as she liked with the photo's and could have been sued over selling them.
     
  18. Brefie

    Brefie New Member

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    I understand the confusion, tho. I just ordered my wedding photos and purchased the CD as it equalled buying the rights to reproduce. If I had purchased prints I would not be legally allowed to make copies of them.
    I would be very interested in the fine print of the legal side of photographers and models.
     
  19. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I think she did sign a release. But I suspect she didn't give it much thought at the time.

    What Phillips did was morally wrong. She knew the Ramseys wanted the pictures kept private and went ahead and sold them anyway. She did it because she could fully knowing it would cause pain. In my book that is wrong.

    Added: As I look through her interview with Mame, Phillips claims copyright but I haven't found a release mentioned yet. Have to go pick up my son now. Will check further when I get home.
     
  20. Moab

    Moab Member

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    Unless Judith had a written Work-For-Hire agreement up front with Patsy delineating the photos could never be used without Patsy's permission, then Judith owned all of the rights to all photos she took, and she could do anything she pleased with them.
     
  21. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    How was it "morally wrong"? Bottom line was that Judith Phillips is a photographic artist. She makes a living from taking photos and from what I've seen, she's pretty darned good (I guess that's a BORG opinion). The photographs that Judith took of the ramseys weren't exactly the usual family-type portraits. They were ART! They were more akin to a model shoot. They dressed up and assumed the poses as instructed by Judith.

    Judith exhibited those photos. The photos of Patsy and Jonbenet are beautiful.

    Why should the photos cause pain? They were a lot more tasteful than the portfolio of photos that Patsy had taken of JonBenet.

    I think it's a convenient reason to attack Judith Phillips for not doing as she was told by TeamRamsey.
     

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