Justice for Gabriel: Legal & Moral

Discussion in 'Gabriel Johnson' started by BeanE, Feb 6, 2010.

  1. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    The San Antonio state attorney (SA SA) is in a tough position right now, and having to make some tough decisions. In this dance they must do, what steps will they take?

    The fate of a defenseless baby, Gabriel Johnson, is at stake.

    For example, let's say the SA SA is thinking of pressing homicide charges against Elizabeth. Decisions have to be made in light of the fact that Gabe's body has not been found. Were they to bring charges against Tammi, for example, that indicated her involvement in Gabe's disappearance, then the SA SA would put in the position of taking conflicting stances in two prosecutions, Elizabeth's and Tammi's.

    The SA SA can not say "we believe Tammi participated in Gabe's disappearance by arranging for Gabe to be given or sold to another person" *and* say "we believe Elizabeth murdered Gabe". The two directly conflict.

    Hence, the tough decisions they have to make. They have to pick only one.

    Suppose they charge Tammi with something like kidnapping or human trafficking, and then Gabe's body is found, in a diaper bag, w/COD suffocation?

    Suppose they charge Elizabeth with homicide, and then Gabe is found alive at Tammi's timeshare with a friend or relative of hers?

    Suppose they charge Elizabeth with homicide, and then Gabe's body is found, and there is clearcut evidence that Elizabeth gave or sold Gabe to someone, without Tammi's involvement, and that person harmed Gabe?

    And, most importantly, if and when they make that decision to charge Elizabeth with homicide, LE's search for Gabe will stop. A prosecutor can not say both "we believe this child was murdered" *and* "we believe this child may be alive so we must search for him". It's one or the other, and LE follows the lead of the SA.

    We deal with three things in many of these cases: the reality of what happened to the victim, the unknown, and the legal machinations of prosecution.

    I'm surprised there's been no discussion of the future charging and prosecution issues in this case. They're complex, and if Gabe is still with us, his life and well-being are at stake.

    - What has the SA SA decided?
    - What are they still trying to decide?
    - Will they take that big, risky step of charging Elizabeth with homicide? What - will they do before taking that step in order to make a decision like that?
    - Will they ensure that Gabe is given every chance possible?
    - How will they do that?

    The SA SA dance is a hard one I'd not want to have to do. It's a dance with the devil, in which justice of many kinds is at stake for a defenseless baby.

    What is legally savvy, politically pleasing, is not always what is morally right and just. It is not always what is in the best interests of the victim.

    I pray that the San Antonio Police Department and the San Antonio State Attorney will *not* classify Gabriel's case as a homicide case unless and until Gabriel is found deceased, and that until that time, they will actively and diligently search for this baby alive.

    It's what Gabe deserves.

    Justice for Gabriel.
     
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  3. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    Let's look at what we've seen regarding SAPD in chronological order:

    - About 3 weeks ago, the family was unable to use the services of the Heidi Search organization, which is a rescue search organization (not recovery).

    - Then about a week or so later, Logan said in a news interview video that SAPD thinks Gabe is dead.

    - Then last Friday, the SAPD chief made public statements, including that SAPD's case status for Gabe is not homicide.

    - Then the family was able to avail themselves of Heidi Search's services.

    One might draw some logical conclusions from that sequence of events.

    Interestingly, last Friday, the SAPD chief also announced that the landfill searches would begin, and also said there would be announcements very early this week, neither of which happened. Maybe since Logan pushed for a meeting, they decided to put off their announcement until after they meet with him.

    Logan's statements in the news when he was planning the roadtrip to SA were also interesting to me. He said that Tempe PD had asked him to delay his trip. And then, when Tammi was arrested, Tempe PD announced that they had wrapped up their case, that they do not believe that Tammi was not involved in Gabe's disappearance, that they do not believe that Tammi has any knowledge of where Gabe is, and that they had turned everything over to SAPD.

    (Just a note that I've tried to be careful to use the phrases that the PDs used. I recommend watching the videos in the Media sticky & LE Statements threads and listening yourself to what McManus (SAPD) and Carbajal (Tempe PD) say, rather than reading what the media and others (including myself) have written that they said, some out of context.)

    One of my conclusions from this is that there has been heavy activity behind the scenes not only between the Tempe and SA PDs, but also between the Maricopa County and SA state attorneys. When you think about it, the state attorneys need to make some tough decisions in this case that could not be made without some heavy duty discussion, compromises, and agreements back and forth.

    After all, Tempe PD announced they do not believe Tammi was involved in Gabe's disappearance, they do not believe Tammi has knowledge of Gabe's whereabouts, and Jack is no longer a person of interest. The Maricopa County SA filed the criminal complaint for conspiracy to commit custodial interference and forgery only.

    The Tempe/Maricopa PD and SA have made their decisions and announced them. They could not have done so unless the SA PD and SA SA had made some decisions.
     
  4. Ives

    Ives New Member

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    Very interesting thread, I am no legal begal, so I do not have much to contribute here, But, regarding the press conference that never happened- Cheif Mcmanus has had a very full plate, with the lady who killed her 2 babies, and a murder suicide, and some other things going on, he is very hands on, from what I can tell, he is at the scene, when bad things happen(maybe all police cheifs are, IDK) also, SA PD is haveing major investigations from internal affairs right now.

    No excuse IMO, but could these be contributing factors? again IDK, just a little info on where and what the SA PD is at/up to. might even be OT.

    Very well thought out BeanE, Thank you! and SA SA, just makes my head spin, LOL
     
  5. Ives

    Ives New Member

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    Also, Susan Reed, the Criminal District attorney, WILL GIVE EVERYTHING SHE HAS, to prosecute people who hurt babies and children, so which ever way it goes, I have faith in her. Let's just say, she is very hated by criminals around here. and she is the last person you want on your A**.

    So have faith my dears, no matter what happened, with her in the courts, whoever is responsible, will get what they deserve.
     
  6. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    It is Gabriel who I want to get what he deserves. He deserves to be searched for diligently unless and until he is found deceased.

    Every child deserves that. No matter how slim the hope, no matter what the odds, if there is the slightest chance they are out there, they deserve to be searched for.

    God bless Gabriel.
     
  7. Boo Scout

    Boo Scout New Member

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    I completely agree. Gabriel deserves nothing less.
     
  8. NewMommy09

    NewMommy09 New Member

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    BeanE,

    Thanks SO much for this thread and these posts. Really got my mind cranking.

    Do you know if there is a chance that Heidi Search will no longer be able to help the family now that SAPD has changed their investigation to murder?
    I certainly hope that's not the case.
     
  9. legallee

    legallee Paralegal

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    If I'm not mistaken, Tammi can not be charged for anything in TX unless she was IN Texas when she committed the crime. This is why AZ has charged her.
     
  10. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    That’s why Thursday, McQueary’s private investigator met with the San Antonio Police Department and gave authorities every bit of evidence they have gathered.

    “I think we opened up their eyes a little bit more. I think we did point them in the right direction today,” said McQueary.

    The FBI has even come forward, telling McQueary they want to do more to help in the search. But unless the San Antonio Police Department changes the case from a homicide to missing persons, the FBI can’t even open a case file.
    “We’re really close. Closer than we’ve ever been,” said McQueary.

    If the San Antonio Police Department changes the classification of the case, McQueary wouldn't have to count on the whim of the woman behind bars. With more resources, McQueary truly believes they will soon find Gabriel on their own.

    “It doesn’t matter to me how much time she gets or how little time she gets. She can go along with her life and I can go along with mine. As long as I have Gabriel. That’s all I want,” said McQueary.


    http://www.kpho.com/news/23032430/detail.html

    SAPD contact page:
    http://www.sanantonio.gov/sapd/contact.asp

    San Antonio Mayor's office contact:
    http://www.sanantonio.gov/mayor/

    Texas governor's office contact:
    http://governor.state.tx.us/contact/

    Thank you,
    BeanE
     
  11. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    Oh SAPD, what have you been doing? :( They need to get this thing done already.
    Thank you for the info BeanE!
     
  12. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane!

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    What a beautiful statement and proof of Logan's motivation!

    I had not seen this thread before, it's a great one, BeanE. There are so many questions to ponder here. I am constantly going back and forth with this.

    I'd almost be ok with them charging EJ with murder. I understand SAPD would close their "missing persons" case, but it sounds like Logan and Mr. Gamble are finding more on their own, anyway. Plus, we may just get something out of EJ if she knows she's facing murder.

    But then again, because it does sound like they are getting so close to finding Gabe, maybe they should just hold off on any charges and slam every little bit they can on EJ when they do find him.

    As far as TS, I think it's going to be proven she had some hand in this and she BETTER be charged with something so she knows she can't get away with this. Even if it's only for what we know she's done already, she needs to be charged. She sits on her high horse, spouting her Bible verses and thumbing her nose at everyone. She needs to stand trial and have Logan sitting there with Gabe watching.
     
  13. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    Great thread BTW! SAPD needs to open that missing person's case, what are they waiting for? The FBI can't do anything until they do? I have a feeling with the resources the FBI has, they would find Gabriel in a day if they could only get started.

    I think NG has a beef with SAPD already, so maybe we could bombard her to put the pressure on. I know Gabriel's FB page has lots of people on there doing that already, so anyone else not reading there, get over to NG!

    Is anyone able to write a letter we could post on here, that way we could all grab a copy and send it off to the contacts? Oprah does that when she urges people to contact their Representatives? Who's up for that letter challenge?
     
  14. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    Thank you, kiss, but we can't organize campaigns on here without Tricia's permission. If people are interested, I'm happy to take it forward.
     
  15. Litlred

    Litlred New Member

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    Thanks BeanE, I will write them as well because I just do not get it. The missing person case was closed yet they are making one more attempt to find Gabriel before they open the homicide case. I believe they are still looking but why would they not want more help from the FBI and work together on this? So what status is it in? Limbo status? It is not a missing person case and it is not a homicide case so what is it? Sorry if I sound frustrated but I believe they need the FBI involved too.
     
  16. Litlred

    Litlred New Member

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    Do we know for sure that the FBI is not working on this case?
     
  17. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    You think I made all that up? I'm creative, but not that creative. I've tried very, very hard to be very, very accurate in the information I've conveyed from Gabe's family. I agonize over it, in fact.
     
  18. Litlred

    Litlred New Member

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    No BeanE, I do not think you made that all up but normally if there is a kidnapping involved across state lines I'm under the assumption that it is a Federal offensive and that it puts it back in the FBI's jurisdiction.

    I'm having a hard time understanding why they are not involved and I'm agonizing over this.
     
  19. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    Gabe's homicide case officially opened when the landfill search opened and has remained open.

    The FBI can't work on Gabe's case because of red tape which requires an open missing person case at the PD in charge for them to work on a missing person case.
     
  20. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    Yes, if they believe there's been a kidnapping. Not if they believe there's been a homicide. Logan has conveyed in news interviews several times that SAPD believes Elizabeth killed Gabe.

    The only reason they are searching for Gabe alive one last time right now is because of public pressure and their desire to protect their public reputation/perception.

    It's red tape of the worst kind. Gabe is a human being. There is not one single piece of physical evidence that he is dead. He deserves to be looked for, actively and diligently.
     
  21. Litlred

    Litlred New Member

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    Thanks BeanE, I'm sorry if you already put this information out but do you know who the person is in SA that will make the final decision to reopen the case as a missing person?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Below is from the FBI's website...



    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/family.htm
     

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