K9 SAR Questions & Answers - Ask the Pros!

[Herding Cats]

I would love links if you have them, Oriah! I know Newfs are not the best at scenting, but I also know they love the water, and I'm looking at doing some water scenting with her. And yes, lifeguarding is wonderful, and something that we will start doing once it warms up a bit. And yes again to Therapy...she already has been started towards that, and when I work with her and socialize her, she's so accepting of everyone and everything, and just lets people love on her, gives her belly to any and everyone, and thinks kids are about as good as it gets (a toddler crawled on her belly once, and laid there. Gracie laid there right back, just grinning...with a toddler on her belly. She was in heaven!).

Thanks for the advice and help, you two. I am definitely interested, and while the time would be somewhat difficult, it still may be doable. So if you could send me a link, that would simply rock.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Tilmylastbreath]

Why do some dogs pick up things that other dog may miss? How do they train a dog to detect and find earthquake victims? Thats gotta be the hardest type of training for any dog.

Btw, thanks for all the great links. I've learned a lot.

 

[sarx]

Why do some dogs pick up things that other dog may miss? How do they train a dog to detect and find earthquake victims? Thats gotta be the hardest type of training for any dog.

Btw, thanks for all the great links. I've learned a lot.

.

That is certainly the question we would all love to know the answer to, lol.
Training, handler ability, circumstances, good day, bad day, changing conditions, you name it, it all comes into play.

Scent it scent (ok, don't take that too literally), they're still looking for a live or deceased person, so the nose part is the same. The difference really becomes in the type of terrain (that being rubble in this case), the buried factor etc.

These 2 topics could have books written about them, so hope I answered the question generally speaking enough to get an idea anyways. Don't want to totally overwhelm.

 

[Tilmylastbreath]

and i appreciate that... *HUGE grin* and i get it, lots of variables lol. Thank you. Can they hear movement underground? Is that one of the things they are trained in? and how do they train a dog to listen so well?

 

[K9Snoop]

and i appreciate that... *HUGE grin* and i get it, lots of variables lol. Thank you. Can they hear movement underground? Is that one of the things they are trained in? and how do they train a dog to listen so well?

For those interested Shirley Hammond wrote a book on how disaster dogs are trained. It's a time consuming process where the same behavior is reinforced over and over again until its automatic. Yes, dogs can hear some movement underground but normally can't under these circumstances due to all the above ground noise and activity.

 

[sarx]

Shirley Hammond is awesome!

 

[Oriah]

and i appreciate that... *HUGE grin* and i get it, lots of variables lol. Thank you. Can they hear movement underground? Is that one of the things they are trained in? and how do they train a dog to listen so well?

Disaster K9's are trained to 'hear' through a variety of different senses- not just their ears. They do listen; but they also smell, they feel, they see- and their senses are much more acute than most of ours, by nature and design. Compare to a human who is blind- they often come to hear more acutely. Or a person who is deaf comes to see more acutely? Or a person who is both blind and deaf may come to communicate using a tactile sign language system because that is their most dominent 'sense.' Feeling.

Humans and K9's alike tend to gravitate toward whatever communication method comes easiest to them but dogs have, overall, much more diverse strengths when it comes to sight, sound, smell, and feel. Training a dog to work disasters is essentially focusing on all of those senses by first isolating them and then putting them all together so that the dog thinks "1 plus 2 plus 3 plus 4...Stay here and BARK THREE TIMES REALLY LOUD until my handler hears me" lol.
I hope that makes sense.

My very humble training opinions only. There are as many different kinds of training methods as there are handlers.

 

[Emi]

Have a question what is the difference between K9 and Kadaver dogs that were used in the Baby Lisa case.

 

[sarx]

Have a question what is the difference between K9 and Kadaver dogs that were used in the Baby Lisa case.

I'm not sure of the context, but often when the word "K9" is used, they are talking about police dogs or trailing dogs which are looking for the scent of someone alive. Cadaver or HRD dogs are specific for detecting all things post life.

 

[Emi]

I'm not sure of the context, but often when the word "K9" is used, they are talking about police dogs or trailing dogs which are looking for the scent of someone alive. Cadaver or HRD dogs are specific for detecting all things post life.

thanks I truly appreciate the information.

 

[Trackergd]

Great thread! I have worked with SAR dog teams many times over the years. In two cases the dog team and I worked side by side. If I lost the print tracks, the dog would pick up the trail again, when the dog appeared to be frustrated, I would start looking for a footprint. Very effective when working with ground scent dogs. Air scent dogs on occasion would get me looking in the right direction if there was no (or inaccurate PLS) and we would leapfrog each other.

On a few occasions I was the "subject" in SAR dog training in SE PA and NJ. I know a dog and handler are good when they can still find me, even if I spray my shoes with fox urine.

SAR Dogs and Handlers ROCK!

 

[Trackergd]

Is there is a WS cadaver dog and handler in or near Chester County PA?

 

[Oriah]

Is there is a WS cadaver dog and handler in or near Chester County PA?

I don't know about WS's, but if you are looking for a good HRD dog in PA, I know there's an awesome IPWDA/OPOTA certified team in Lawrence Co.

 

[Trackergd]

I don't know about WS's, but if you are looking for a good HRD dog in PA, I know there's an awesome IPWDA/OPOTA certified team in Lawrence Co.

Thanks Oriah! I will follow up. I need to check out a few leads and locations, then get permission from the landowners to bring in a small team.

 

[Oriah]

Thanks Oriah! I will follow up. I need to check out a few leads and locations, then get permission from the landowners to bring in a small team.

No problem! Not sure about how close to the location you're seeking K9 resources for, but there's also John Valvardi and crew (I believe out of Chester Co?) - and they travel I think.

 

[popsicle]

How long is the working life, typically for these dogs? Do you retire them and keep them in your family?

 

[sarx]

How long is the working life, typically for these dogs? Do you retire them and keep them in your family?

Lots of variables here, but somewhere in the 5 to 7 years range. Depends on how early the dog starts its training, what type of SAR work they are doing (some is much harder on their body than others), what medical issues they may develop as they get older (a lot of working dogs are breeds that are prone to joint issues).

Yes, most SAR dogs are privately owned dogs, so they grow up, live and stay with their families for life.

 

[Tulessa]

In order to help answer questions and keep MP threads clean I'm going to start a thread here that everyone can ask there K9 questions and hopefully we will have answers for you! Please keep this to only K9 SAR questions. If it looks like we need a SAR Q&A as well, let me know and I can start one of those.

If you are professional K9 SAR and are not verified, please do so, the more the merrier!

sarx, Thank you for starting this thread. Maybe this is not the place, I'm not sure. I have a male German Shepherd that can detect seizures and migraines. Is this common in a dog? He's right so far, 100% of the time, and is going on 10 years old.

 

[sarx]

sarx, Thank you for starting this thread. Maybe this is not the place, I'm not sure. I have a male German Shepherd that can detect seizures and migraines. Is this common in a dog? He's right so far, 100% of the time, and is going on 10 years old.

I wouldn't say it is necessarily common, but it's not uncommon either. They train dogs for just that, as well as diabetes, cancer detection, you name it. Sounds like you've got a naturally trained one, that's awesome (well, not the seizures and migraines part, but you know what I mean)/

 

[KateB]

It would appear to be stronger to a dog not trained specifically in specific scent discrimination. To a dog that has been trained properly for a specific scent discrimination; the dog would alert or follow the most recent trail.
So for example- lets say you or I walk to the corner coffee shop every morning. Our feet fall along the same path, but probably not in the exact same spots.

A dog trained for this type of tracking will follow all of those steps, and blend them into one path. That's very useful when there's been a very small window of time that has elapsed, and the direction of travel is known.

A dog that is properly trained for specific trailing however, should follow the most recent path taken by the particle of scent it was scented on. So sometimes you'll see a dog following a path do circles, or stopping and turning left or right, then continuing on. Much like we humans do when walking.

So, say one day you're walking to the coffee shop and you hit a green light. You stop to cross when it's red. You deposit more scent while stopped at the light.
The next day, you're a minute later and you catch the light. So your scent particle is not as heavily deposited at the crossing, but instead continues through. A trailing dog should follow the most recent scent, despite the heavier scent deposit from the day earlier when we were stuck at the light.

Make sense?

Makes a lot of sense. I'm wondering about the time lapse for detecting freshness. If it is in minutes, and not a day as in your example, is it indistinguishable then?
Example: A person on a walk turns around and walks the same exact path back, all within the same hour. Is that detectable or can it appear as a lost scent at the point of the u-turn. TIA.