KC Could Get A College Degree In Prison For Free - Thoughts Please

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But can they become members of the Bar? I don't think most,if not all, Bar Associations allow convicted felons to be members, and membership is required to actually practice law.

No they cannot become members of the bar,that's why I placed "lawyers" in quotation marks.Try "googling a search ,the per cent of prisoners that get a degree in law,or psych,and you will be shocked. I do not think that ANY prisoner should have this right,not just KC. I truly do not care if a prisoner wants to read all day,but I do not believe that they should have any frills at all,whether it be a TV,an education,or a peanut butter cup. Guess it's a good thing I'm not a warden!:rolleyes:
 
An education isn't the same as job training. Our soldiers have great educational opportunities as they well should.

Bev, what about the kids that can't get financial aid just b/c their parents made $1000 over the limit for applying for financial aid? What about the fact that most college kids that work during their higher educating years suffer in their grades just b/c they have to work in order to afford to go to college? You need a C or above, basically, in order to be a nurse or doctor, scientist, or the like...otherwise you won't be accepted or have to redo courses. Their grades could be suffering b/c they're working full time and going to college full time - no time to take care of what should be most important: Their Education. Average everyday law abiding citizens could spend a lifetime volunteering and making a wonderful difference in our country - but they don't get a free pass to be educated. Our system is broken - plain and simple. Do I think inmates should be educated? Yes, without a doubt...but there needs to be better structuring of funds allotted and degrees achieved. Think about it, please. An inmate doesn't even have the right to vote...how can they have a right to higher education when there's so many unincarcerated people that can't afford to go? They need limitations on classes available and funds provided.
 
I've always thought that education for inmates was a huge waste, especially ones with no hope of getting out, and it does seem to be a slap in the face to those of us law abiding citizens who had to pay for their own education. Maybe the ones serving shorter sentences, but then I think they should have to repay student loans upon getting out. But, from looking at it from a different perspective, as a stay at home mom working on my master's degree in education, taking classes has really made me miss teaching. I am actually looking forward to getting back in the workplace and trying out some of the new things I've learned. If I were behind bars, I certainly wouldn't be able to return to a teaching career, even if I did get out, because school districts don't hire ex-cons to work with children. But, regardless of their field of choice, the fact that they won't actually be able to use the skills they've learned and became passionate about in an actual workplace setting would hopefully add to their remorse and regret over committing the crime in the first place, if that makes sense.
 
I care. I care when I have 2 nephews sitting in Iraq today not knowing if a bomb will hit their tents tonight? Why? So that people like Ms. Anthony can have rights. They chose to enlist, not necessarily to defend this country, but to gain the access to an education that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Thing is, they have to give to society in order to get back from society. Casey only had to kill her daughter...grrrr.

Amen sista! May angels watch over your nephews, as well as all of the other enlisted.
 
I agree! I have 4 children and one just turned 3 yrs old. My boys are 21 and 22. My 21 year old was lucky to get in to the fire department and his training is only $5,000 out of my pocket, he pays the rest. My 22 year old received a grant to go to school for HVAC but his dream of being a car mechanic is shattered due to the fact that I owe so much on my daughters eduction and he refuses to let me help him pay for his schooling so he settled for the free HVAC training and that breaks my hearts that he can not follow his dream and refuses my help. My 3 yr old, well we set aside $100 a month for her schooling in the future and that is a big dent in our pockets, we go with out any extras to save up. My 25 yr old is helping me pay her school loan of $65,000. Is it fair that the good children in America, that want to better themselves have to pay such a high price to get a good education when a criminal can commit an act and come out of prison with a free education that we as tax payers pay for? I think it should be the other way around, they should have hard labor jobs for them in prison and with that they can pay for their own education and pay back the tax payers for their room and board.
I can appreciate your feelings, while I only have two college age daughters, we struggle to help them with school. Since we skim by the cut off for Financial Aid, we struggle to make it work. It is rough. Reading about prisoners, any prisoners getting a FREE college education is painful. If anything, they should have to pay somehow, through work in prison, something. I do not think it should come free.
 
No they cannot become members of the bar,that's why I placed "lawers" in quotation marks.Try "googling a search ,the per cent of prisoners that get a degree in law,or psych,and you will be shocked. I do not think that ANY prisoner should have this right,not just KC. I truly do not care if a prisoner wants to read all day,but I do not believe that they should have any luxaries at all,whether it be a TV,an education,or a peanut butter cup. Guess it's a good thing I'm not a warden!:rolleyes:

Being able to take the Bar Exam only makes you a licensed lawyer backed by the state that you take the Bar in. My argument is the fact that she could learn as much as she needs to in order to defend criminals for doing the same thing that she did. Heck, she wouldn't need to pass the Bar in the first place. I don't think it's against the law for her to open up a business to provide law advice services. I don't think it's even against the law for somebody to let her "help" defend them. She's making tons of contacts. Most of those people will no doubt be bottom of the barrel. Those people usually can't afford a lawyer, so they pay for advice. See where I'm going with this? All she'd have to do is market herself well and she'd make a ton! Heck, JB would probably hire her!
 
This comment may belong on the rant thread, but isn't it an incrediable SHAME that our goverment continues to go out of their way to take care of our prison inmates, but once a soilder is injured and discharged, the system usually "forgets" about him/her and they are left with basically nothing? I would be HAPPY for my tax money to go towards taking care of those who fought for our freedom - including funding an education fund for them. But I am NOT happy that my tax dollars help educate the worst of the worst criminals.

BAM, Gypsy, you hit the nail on the head!
 
I don't know if they have "a right" to an education. Imo, taking it away from some people isn't the answer - the answer is to make sure everyone gets a free education. We throw away trillions every year on foolish wars, weaponry we'll never use and all sorts of things that I don't appreciate having to support with my tax dollars, but we live in a democracy with representatives who do vote to support those programs so there are always trade-offs in what he have to pay for. I just don't think that education is wasted on someone in prison because an education isn't about jobs - it's about learning how to think critically - if any people need to learn how to think critically it's the prison population.

Yes, I think the cost of a college education in this country is becoming out of reach for many in the middle class but shouldn't the solution be pro-active instead of re-active?

p.s. Don't any of you believe in the redemption of human beings? I'm curious.
 
I don't know if they have "a right" to an education. Imo, taking it away from some people isn't the answer - the answer is to make sure everyone gets a free education. We throw away trillions every year on foolish wars, weaponry we'll never use and all sorts of things that I don't appreciate having to support with my tax dollars, but we live in a democracy with representatives who do vote to support those programs so there are always trade-offs in what he have to pay for. I just don't think that education is wasted on someone in prison because an education isn't about jobs - it's about learning how to think critically - if any people need to learn how to think critically it's the prison population.

Yes, I think the cost of a college education in this country is becoming out of reach for many in the middle class but shouldn't the solution be pro-active instead of re-active?

p.s. Don't any of you believe in the redemption of human beings? I'm curious.

Yes, I definitely believe in redemption. My beef is the fact that educating our population isn't free for everyone. Earlier in this thread, I stated that college is free in Denmark. Heck, Canada provides country wide healthcare. It seems like our system is broken b/c our servicemen have to put their lives on the line just to get a college education, or most people that are turned down for financial aid are turned down b/c they make pennies over the limit to qualify, or there's less and less college scholarships for whatever reason ... the list goes on --- but the one thing that hasn't changed, since it was entered into our system, is the availability of a higher education to prisoners. Something's wrong with this picture...at least to me.
 
I just posted this same statement on the rants thread, when I realized that it might make for a good thread on it's own. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this - as I believe it would be a slap in our faces (soceity) and an even further disrespect to the memory of Caylee.

:furious::furious::furious:Ok, my rotd is that I went to FSU for 2 years and paid alot of $$$ to be able to do that! Does everybody realize that, if KC is found guilty and sentenced to stay in prison for however long, she can receive a college degree while in prison? While I can appreciate the fact that this helps our soceity when prisoners are released, I think it's unfair that the costs of this program weighs on us taxpayers! Just think about it...KC lies about going to Valencia, and ends up going to jail, only for us tax payers to end up paying for her to get a degree with a very well established university! Heck, she could become a lawyer in jail, win an appeal based on some mitigating indiscretions from her original lawyer (which btw I do believe will happen - the appeal that is), and all the while "we" the taxpayers will have to foot the bill! Just a rant but worthwhile looking into. There's tons of universities that do this, but it's not entirely nationwide yet. If KC isn't found guilty of murder, and only gets a 20-30 year sentence, she could get her masters, heck, doctorate for all we know, and pass everything with flying colors. She'd have tons of free time in jail to be able to study. Wouldn't it be crazy if she ended up being a criminal defense lawyer and became wealthy once released? Oooooooh - burns me up! :furious::furious::furious:
Here's the link for FSU's program:

http://www.fsu.com/pages/2008/12/09/education_in_prison.html

Here's the actual page from fsu.com:
TOM BLOMBERG

Education in prison reduces crime: Florida State to lead national push


BY LIBBY FAIRHURST

The Florida State University College of Criminology and Criminal Justice will help to lead the newly formed "Alliance for the Advancement of Education in Juvenile Justice and Adult Corrections," a national coalition of correctional and educational professionals promoting proven education programs for incarcerated juvenile and adult offenders.

"Despite the current recession and the threat of cuts or worse to many public programs, our nation literally cannot afford to see the Alliance mission fail," said Florida State Professor Tom Blomberg, dean of the college.

"Today, it is estimated that crime costs U.S. taxpayers more than a trillion dollars a year, and our use of incarceration to combat crime has never been higher, with more than one in every 100 Americans behind bars, yet recidivism (repeat offending) now occurs at the alarming rate of 70 percent or more," he said. "Clearly, we need consistent, common-sense correctional policies driven and informed by scholarly research and empirical data, and among those practices proven to work, education during incarceration is one of the best."

Blomberg called education achievement the cornerstone of success not only for the general population but among the correctional population as well.

"Research data show that correctional education and associated academic achievement provide a positive turning point for incarcerated offenders in their post-release lives," he said. "They are more likely to gain employment and, therefore, less likely to re-offend. As a result, we save both tangible taxpayer dollars and the numerous intangible pain and suffering costs associated with criminal victimization."

As leaders of the Alliance, criminologists at Florida State will guide and coordinate the group's efforts in cooperation with the Correctional Education Association www.ceanational.org and other national and state organizations. Together the participants will provide leadership and research and develop legislative advocacy. In addition, Florida State researchers will collect data from all 50 states to establish a National Data Clearinghouse for juvenile justice and adult correctional education.

The hoped-for result: sound public policy that truly takes a bite out of crime by reducing recidivism and the nation's expensive and ineffective reliance upon incarceration.

For more information on Florida State University's distinguished College of Criminology and Criminal Justice, visit the Web site at www.criminology.fsu.edu. To learn more about the Center for Criminology and Public Policy Research, a branch of the college, go to www.criminologycenter.fsu.edu.

I think it should be mandatory for convicts to participate in continuing education while imprisoned. I completely agree with the quoted article. Use standardized testing to ascertain their level and continue on from there.

Thanks for the article and links, JerseyGirl!
 
Did she get her GED yet?
What does getting a degree do to help someone on death row?
If kc ever did get out, would anyone hire her?
Big waste, Huge waste!!!
 
Anything that gets her out of her cell and into the general population is fine with me.

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Considering the amount already spent to search for her "MISSING" daughter, the amount that will be spent to prosecute her etc..., a college education is pocket change @ this point.
 
Jersey Girl, I understand how you feel, I really do, but the answer isn't in depriving one subset of society to benefit another. If we only paid for those deserving to go to college, then how would society make that determination? Maybe somone in prison who is strongly motivated to rehabilitate himself could be considered more deserving than someone on the outside who is looking for a degree in order to get a better job...there is just no way we can determine who in a society is more deserving.
 
I personally don't care if she gets a degree or not. If she is convicted, what good will that degree do her? She is in prison for life. If she so happens to get out early, who is going to hire her with her background? She will be a old woman by than. So, her get a degree. Besides, the thing she wants most is taken away from her and that was her FREEDOM! They are stuck in a jail cell 23/7, allowing them maybe an hour out of their cell. How boring is that? I'd go nuts.. :behindbar :crazy:
 
Jersey Girl, I understand how you feel, I really do, but the answer isn't in depriving one subset of society to benefit another. If we only paid for those deserving to go to college, then how would society make that determination? Maybe somone in prison who is strongly motivated to rehabilitate himself could be considered more deserving than someone on the outside who is looking for a degree in order to get a better job...there is just no way we can determine who in a society is more deserving.

Caylee would have deserved someday to go to college. Does that make the person who killed her any less deserving..yes..
There is a way to determine. Follow the rules of this land.
 
I think it should be mandatory for convicts to participate in continuing education while imprisoned. I completely agree with the quoted article. Use standardized testing to ascertain their level and continue on from there.

Thanks for the article and links, JerseyGirl!

You're welcome, Elfie, and I agree with you but only when our entire population is given the same treatment. That's where my beef is. While I do agree with a program such as this, it's my belief that it needs better structuring & limitations, and also needs to coincide with a better promise for others that have never been incarcerated but wish to further their education. It's unfair to me that KC can get a higher college education but I will have to struggle in order to put my boys in college...if I can even afford it when that time comes. See what I'm saying? Our system is broken. Definitely. Just needs to be repaired.
 
Jersey Girl, I understand how you feel, I really do, but the answer isn't in depriving one subset of society to benefit another. If we only paid for those deserving to go to college, then how would society make that determination? Maybe somone in prison who is strongly motivated to rehabilitate himself could be considered more deserving than someone on the outside who is looking for a degree in order to get a better job...there is just no way we can determine who in a society is more deserving.

No no no no no...please don't get me wrong. I'm saying that it's not fair that everybody doesn't have these same luxuries. I believe in rehabilitation, sure, without a doubt...but the innocent should not be left out - which they are. That's what I'm trying to say. We have a broken system that needs to be repaired. Our country is in a sad state, yet our lawmakers give prisoners a college education and We The People can't afford to do the same for ourselves or our children. That's what I'm saying. Something's definitely wrong here.
 
Jersey Girl, I understand how you feel, I really do, but the answer isn't in depriving one subset of society to benefit another. If we only paid for those deserving to go to college, then how would society make that determination? Maybe somone in prison who is strongly motivated to rehabilitate himself could be considered more deserving than someone on the outside who is looking for a degree in order to get a better job...there is just no way we can determine who in a society is more deserving.

Im sorry respectively disagree.Why should tax payers money pay for a convicted murder or rapist to get a college degree and be a lawyer. That is messed up on so many levels. I would rather my tax dollars goto a good citizen and better there future. Im sorry but that makes me angry when good young people with good grades like my daughter who cant qualify for help because her parents make 20 dollars over on income. Where's the motivation and determination for the people who respect and follow the laws.
 
(Haven't read the whole thread, but as an FYI - I do not know any state that will allow an ex-felon to take the bar exam or practice law. Feel free to correct me.)

First, LWOP or DP inmates have no problem with recidivism and they need no education or skills to keep them from returning.

Further, inmates do not have medical insurance, they simply get free medical care.

Finally, I just don't care what happens to KC in prison.
 
Out of six million incarcerated human beings in this country, how many are getting college degrees and going to law school? How many are getting college degrees?
 
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