Discussion in 'Trials' started by KayElJay, Nov 15, 2019.
You're welcome! I sure hope you plan to stick around and help with other cases. MOO
The jury instructions will take considerable time and I think they will want to review all the evidence especially the testimony of key witnesses and LE officials - I think they will deliberate about 2 hours or so
I would love to chat w/ MaF and see what's really truly going through her mind.
On one hand, I feel some sympathy for a mother having to endure watching your baby be
in such serious trouble and potentially being
sent away for life.
And knowing your own life is about to change also since she probably can't keep up w/ living
on the franch. Surely the animals are all gone
now. And she's apparently all alone out there
in the wilderness. Locals and neighbors may
distance themselves from her after this.
And since none of us really know her, I wonder what she's like? Is she sitting home all alone crying herself to sleep at night? Only to wake up to this continued nightmare?
I wish a local could answer these thoughts.
If we're betting, I'm betting the jury won't take too long. I'll be very unhappy and nervous if it takes more than a day.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were unanimous on their first poll. Can't wait to hear synopsis of prosecution's closing argument (and whatever passes for the defense's closing arguments).
My bet is 4 hours or less.
Or is she stressed out, knowing her part in it all - if she was indeed involved, particularly in the planning or coverup - wondering how much time she'll get?
Yeah, the "elk hunt" note plus pleading the 5th really sealed it for me.
I didn’t follow this from the beginning and I’ve missed everything to do with PF’s mother. I’m getting the impression that she didn’t like Kelsey, that she watched the fire and probably knows everything. I also understand that she was supposed to be a witness but she plead the fifth. Can you just do that? Is she being charged with taking the fifth? (Is that even something that can be done?) I’d be so interested in your PF mother rundown. TIA!
There was good discussion yesterday from our WS attorney’s regarding the evidence and trial that’s worth a read IMO
Still Missing - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #66
Last few pages
No. I think the jury will reach a verdict in the afternoon. Morning will be eaten up with closing arguments and jury instruction.
In the Shawn Grate case in OH, I thought the prosector was genius.
He (Tunnell) said to the jurors to just use their common sense.
I think people get confused when they hear 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. Common sense is more of an understandable layman's term...
Yes. That’s what I meant. I edited my question. Thank you!
I'm not so sure about her being worried about her other son being in LE.
To be honest, I think she may have expected her other son to lie on the stand. Blood thicker than water and all that happy horse crap. If those letters from PF to Doe were accurate in terms of the call he was supposed to make to her (given both landline and cell phone number), then that tells me she was expecting this to occur. She was to know what the horse and elk comments were in reference to.
To me, her only concern was getting PF out of jail, regardless of whether or not he killed Kelsey.
Her cold demeanor in not allowing the Berreth's to see Baby K speaks volumes to me. She filed for custody after the baby was taken from her and Patrick was in jail.
Krystal didn't feel comfortable enough to ask if she could rest in her home, after a long drive, cleaning up the condo, getting the tote with Kelsey's body in it, and starting a fire with Patrick.
Sorry, but I sincerely doubt that she was worried about her son, the LE officer. If anything, I think she was hoping to use his influence on LE in this case, and is probably not too pleased with her admirable son, who didn't lie on the stand for his brother and was clearly disgusted with him. Then the other day, Doe took the witness stand- that must be upsetting for SF2, and I am sure he is glad that he didn't attempt to cover for his brother. I feel for him, out of them all. I don't recall him ever bashing Kelsey since she went missing. Just the three of them- MaF, Patrick, and his sister.
Assuming he's found guilty, and I believe he will be, I hope he is sentenced on Nov. 22nd to lwop.
Does anybody know if there will be impact statements from Kelsey's family and friends?
I’ve been mulling over in my mind the whole chain of events with The Bounty Letters (see what I did there?). And what I’m coming up with is, we are going to hear a lot more about this conspiracy to commit murder. And THERE will be fallout.
Others are weighing in on the bond for Bentley, and who paid it. I myself have been thinking about how PF came by the info he provided to Bentley. Think about this. How did PF get his hands on the current physical addresses of people like Michelle Stein and Gregg Slater?
“In their passed notes, Frazee asked the man to kill witnesses — Kenney, Michelle Stein (Kenney’s friend in Idaho), John Moore (Frazee's friend who previously testified), Wendi Clark (Moore’s significant other) and lead Colorado Bureau of Investigation Agent Gregg Slater — and described where they live now and what they look like.
In testimony, Slater confirmed the descriptions of each person and their places of residences were all accurate.”
Frazee trial: Letters say Frazee asked inmate to kill witnesses
PF is not personally acquainted with either Stein or Slater. So how did he get their addresses? Bentley gave no testimony that indicated he helped with that, or got someone on the outside to help. PF doesn’t have access to the Internet, right? I doubt he has anyone visiting him other than his legal team and his mother. So I think there are three possibilities:
He had access to documents belonging to his defense team which listed the addresses of witnesses. I find this unlikely but still possible. If it happened this way, how incredibly stupid for the defense team to ever have that information out where the accused could see it. But, it would help explain why the defense did not object to authenticity of the letters, if they figured out that PF took the address information from their own files.
PF got SF to look up the addresses (or find someone else to do it) and get them to him.
PF got Bentley to ask one of his visitors such as his girlfriend to look up the info. I just don’t think this is how it happened. I think it would have come out in Bentley’s testimony.
So in my mind, he had to have gotten that info from one of those two sources, right? And there would HAVE to be ramifications. Either his attorneys would have to answer to the judge and possibly the Bar for making that info accessible knowingly or unknowingly, or else SF would be prosecuted for getting that info and passing it to an accused murderer when there would be no doubt why he would ask for that info.
Do jails not inspect papers that pass from visitors to inmates? How easy would it be for SF to slip a note to PF? I think it is unlikely that the attorneys would be responsible, so ultimately I’m thinking this MUST be SF. And how do you let something like that go and not prosecute?
I just think we haven’t heard the last about these letters. Not by a long shot. Am I off track here?
I really wanted to believe that too. I no longer do. I wanted to see her on the stand, hoping she would - at a minimum - just confirm what SF2 said, there was a fire, PF was late on Thanksgiving. I thought she might do the right thing. I was quite wrong. She didn’t get called to the stand because they knew she wouldn’t talk. She reportedly was seen mouthing ILY to PF in court Friday. Her name and number were on the paper towel.
IMO Ma F, like others, knew and did nothing. And probably cheered him on from the sidelines. Then covered for him.
Done with her. Hope she gets charges too.
There’s no doubt that SF didn’t like Kelsey, as she called her “a hooker,” and kicked her out of the house after learning she was pregnant.
She did intend to plead the Fifth during the preliminary hearing, when DA Dan May tried to call her to the stand.
Pleading the Fifth isn’t a crime, but it does send a strong signal that a crime was committed. I just don’t think the evidence is there that she did do anything criminal. But I absolutely believe she did.
Those letters also seem to indicate some involvement with her son’s efforts to have witnesses killed, and she might be in jeopardy there.