Discussion in 'Trials' started by KayElJay, Nov 15, 2019.
I can't deny many of the things you said. And much of it is probably true. But I still wonder about her. Maybe because she's getting up in age and maybe because she's currently having
family legal fighting over her ex's estate, I still
feel for her, even if she's a mean old coot.
Will she look back at her life with regrets? Oh,
I think so, most mothers do as they age.
It's just such a sad way to have the last chapter of your life be so sordid. And so disappointing.
Well that's attorney client privlege terroritory I believe, but still they can't really challenge it,because I'm sure there would other samples of his writing presented. They know they would match.
Again, your post is evidence of your magnanimous heart.
The only thing I truly wonder about Maw is along the lines of how could she? How dare she?
IMO, she is as dead and remorseless inside as is her son. And maybe her daughter.
I think she regrets that PF was caught, but not that he killed someone. Not that he turned out to be a pyscho/sociopath.
I think Ma is sorry about losing.
Admittedly, what do I really know of her? Not much.
But I've seen enough to make me discount any curiosity about her thoughts or feelings.
I feel nothing but contempt for her.
Honestly, I'm glad you're here to balance the animosity I'm spitting at her. Because I'm generating a whole lot of it.
Well I suppose we can glean from it that they weren't reputable characters to begin with, long before Kelsey came into the picture.
I got behind. I don't actually understand sf's participation. I need to do more research about that JDoe code/ptowel/elk hunting thing, and her pleading the 5th. I thought someone said that pleading the 5th was just something they overheard from the judge but she didn't do. My poor brain! I got busy and behind on the discussion.
Anywho, what I meant earlier about her son being a murderer, is that it doesn't necessarily mean she's a villain too because she also has an LE son. So we can't have it both ways.
And her saying 'I love you' to pf is typical of mothers who have sons who kill. I think she's known he's off for a very long time.
Well, I'll probably get caught up after Monday at this rate.
I don't think you are off track. I mean, isn't law enforcement under an obligation to investigate further? I would think the people on the hit list would demand it.
You win post of the day!
Especially when you consider that they were going to prosecute KK for being an accessory after the fact, until she reached a plea deal. They can’t very well do that on the one hand but then on the other hand do nothing at all if the suspect’s mother becomes an accessory BEFORE the fact of an attempt to murder case witnesses.
First -- I think you're forgetting that PF is not the typical defendant and by that I mean a defendant on trial for murder that actually communicated his desire to have the witnesses in his murder trial wacked!
You can't make this stuff up....
And if that was not enough, PF went on to share his interest to make the witnesses disappear in writing with a fellow inmate with gang connections.
Seriously, how many hometown inmates actually solicit murder from their jail cells!
As for PF's defense lawyers -- they are not stupid, and this is not on them for discipline from the bar. They followed the law.
A defendant is entitled to his case file as the charges are against him and that includes the complete names of both the prosecution and defense witnesses. Withholding any of his case files without a written order would be a violation of the defendant's constitutional right of due process (14th Amendment).
I recall there was only one motion of this sort in the very beginning when PF's defense lawyers were prohibited from sharing the arrest warrant affidavit which was sealed (although his lawyer's could see it).
To DA Dan May's credit -- he did write in a motion filed by his office Dec. 21 that disclosing the affidavit to PF posed a serious risk of jeopardizing the ongoing investigation and the safety of potential witnesses. bbm
Prosecutors and defense attorneys argued over the affidavit’s release at a hearing before the Judge late January.
From what I recall, the potential witness pages in the arrest affidavit were also redacted or deleted from public view prior to release.
I think that much of the shock here about the jailhouse solicitation is that reasonable action was in-fact taken and PF still surprised everybody.
I'm more curious about how inmate JD was able to get the napkin letters out of jail. Did he pass them to his own lawyer during consults or did he smuggle them outside upon his release or earlier. That's what I'd like to know.
Withholding Patrick Frazee arrest warrant affidavit violates rights, expert says
Thank your hubby for me for taking an interest in the case. My hubby is just too disgusted by Patrick and members of his family to even follow anymore, but told me to let him know the verdict.
In my heart, she's known all along, and she's approved of this. Just my opinion. What makes me wonder about her thought process being a bit skewed here, is that she doesn't appear to be afraid of her own son, even after the evil that he has done. What does that tell you all?
Much as I love my own son, if he did all of those evil things, I would not want him out of jail. It sure would be hell on earth for me, if my son was responsible for murdering a lovely young lady, but then plotting others deaths as well? I wouldn't want him out.
Makes you wonder how much, if at all, she's involved in all of these hits that he wanted performed. At what cost, would she go to, to help that occur, if Doe hadn't turned witness instead of carrying out all those hits, whether alone or with other people?
How deep does this go, and for how long? Are we to believe that Kelsey was his first violent episode, especially after seeing how he treats animals, calling the poor dogs bitches in a mean manner? Has this happened before, is there any other victims of his that isn't known just yet?
All these secret code words and sentences- those aren't new. We know that from Krystal. I have a hinky feeling that mother and son had those code sentences already planned before he went to jail, just in case he was arrested. There's more than what meets the eye here.
I am disgusted for all of those who he wanted to put a hit on- most especially, Kelsey's Mom. Sick jerk. If his mother was down with this hit list, then she needs to be arrested and locked away permanently as well.
Snipped for focus. Me too. Can you imagine growing up with those vipers? It doesn't surprise me at all that he became a LE officer. The "second family" of the force and the structure and atmosphere of literal law-and-order must have been a relief for him after all the narcissism, depravity, and dysfunction he grew up around. I see why that appealed to him. He mentioned that he hadn't been close to PF in several years before all this. I get the sense he was trying to build a stable, sane life and family away from crazy town on the Franch. And then all this. Poor guy.
Colorado court rules and procedures require the Judge to read the complete jury instructions to the jurors.
There are several charges against PF and between closing arguments and these instructions, I'm not seeing a verdict before Tuesday.
Oh my....yes spot on.
* SF wanted to take away the baby from CB by fighting for custody.
* SF was fighting her own daughter for said custody.
* SF didn't hand out any missing persons flyers, let alone help in making them.
* SF refused to go to the candlelight vigil.
* SF refused to go and take part in the press conference.
* SF looks like she refused to allow KK nap inside her home, let alone eat pizza in the home.
* Her NOR any family member went to the birthday party in Oct at KB's home. (other than PF)
* There is nothing indicating that SF offered to go to KK's and figure out what happened. CB had asked PF to do this and he told her he couldn't because he had to tend to cattle.
* CB and her son took Uber from the airport to KB's home. Sure would have been kind if someone would have been there to pick them up --somebody who actually cared about KB.
I (we) could go on an on....
We are told we reap what we sow, SF is reaping and will continue to reap what she has sown.......
SF1 did not plead the 5th. She was not called as a witness in this trial. JMO
I must have missed this somewhere, but what was the gist of PF's brother's testimony?
She pled the 5th at the Pre-Trial hearing back in January. She wouldn't answer any questions from the prosecutor and the judge allowed it.
SF2 stated PF turned up, from memory, 5.30 pm.
His car was parked at the side.
PF spent quite sometime outside.
Hope others can send the transcript for you.