Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[Muddy K]

Maybe.

Another possibility is that Stines daughter purposely ignored her fathers calls but answered an unknown number to see who was calling. JMO.

And a further possibility is that the judge's phone number was in Stines' daughter's contacts, but not the other way around.

As far as the daughter's number being "found" on the judge's phone, it may have been nothing more than her number being the last outgoing call to appear on the recent calls list, having just been entered by her father.

IMO, the clear, decisive and thorough act of murder carried out by Stines in that chambers was blunt, no ambiguity at all. I feel the underlying reason must be just as blunt, but something tells me not to hold my breath in terms of ever hearing it.

I wonder if he considers himself a martyr?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I don't believe it has ever been reported that her number was saved in the judge's phone. The only thing the detective said on the stand was the sheriff's daughter's phone number was ON the judge's phone.

Per the transcripts of the preliminary hearings, the daughter disclosed the contents of conversations with the judge, given that information along with the fact that it was ON the judge’s phone, regardless of the mental state of the sheriff I think it can probably be concluded that there were previous conversations between the judges and the daughter (for whatever reason, innocent, nefarious, corrupt or whatever) my college age kids don’t give out or get classmates phone numbers, those are “private” and “personal” they share social media or WhatsApp contact info and have ways of contacting and WiFi calling or using Google phone or whatever- there seems to be previous conversations and contact between the judge and the daughter- via the phone and the fact that she was called from both phones AND the video was edited to show only partial interactions- in my opinion- if her exact number was logged on his phone under her exact name, may or may not be relevant- the prosecution seems to be obscuring things on purpose and the defense seems to be wanting to point that out…and we don’t have enough evidence to do much more than ruminate and speculate-

I think it makes people uncomfortable to think that a sane upstanding elected official would get pushed over a limit to the point that he acted as he did- I’m not justifying his actions, and I’d like to believe that I’d never do anything like that or that out of character- but I don’t know the whole story and I do know people who have done shocking things under extreme circumstances, perceived and real- I don’t know specifically what causes a man to execute his best friend - but I can think of a few that might tempt a man to take matters into his own hands- doesn’t justify it, but might explain it
Moo

 

[Angelcat13]

I’ve been following from the beginning of this case, and have never been able to shake the feeling that there’s a chance (albeit a small one) that some kind of physiological condition was “brewing” that may have contributed to the sheriff’s seemingly erratic behavior, not just the day of the shooting, but in the weeks leading up to it. I swear there were other, more detailed posts in the first thread that contained more odd and out of character things that had been reported about the Sherriff’s recent behaviors, but perhaps they were deleted. I did find this, originally posted in thread #1 by @MassGuy, which lays out some of the ways the Sheriff had deviated from his normal duties, but aside from the weight loss I don’t know that any of these strongly suggest a physical cause of such a shift in his actions.

Now, with this recent reference to him having an “episode”, I’m very curious if there could be something else going on… anyway. Just thought it was interesting to re-consider the possibly alongside the context of the below post from earlier days of this case:

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024'
Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

I, too, wondered about some sort of brain tumor/brain cancer but the longer time goes by without it being mentioned by defense attorneys and with MS still being in jail I doubt it more and more.

I feel, or at least I would like to believe, that if his actions had to do with a brain tumor/brain cancer this would have been brought up and MS would have been released so he could receive treatment. Although he could possibly receive treatment while in jail, IMO the Courts are more likely to release someone under these circumstances (charged but not convicted) so that the cost of medical care is the responsibility of the patient/family and not that of the tax payers.

 

[slowpoke]

I’m not finding anywhere saying the daughter answered the call from Judge Mullins’ phone that fateful day.

What I have found in regards to the daughter’s phone—Judge’s phone:

“[Kentucky State Police Det. Clayton] Stamper confirmed that phone records showed that the cell phone of Stines’ daughter had previously been called from the judge’s phone.”
(CNN, 10/1/2024)

So, I think that’s saying the Judge has called Stines’ daughter on a prior occasion, according to her phone’s records? And not just the day Stines shot the Judge? I’m unsure. Moo
—-

“Kentucky State Police later clarified that they have no evidence the daughter’s phone number was on the judge’s phone before the sheriff dialed it, despite court testimony that suggested that.”

“It’s not clear why the sheriff called his daughter from the judge’s phone. [Trooper Matt] Gayheart says Stines’ daughter did not answer.”
(NPR, 10/8/2024)

Does this NPR statement clarify or confuse the CNN report above that phone records show the Judge’s phone previously called the daughter’s phone?

Gayheart is a State Police spokesman. He says Stines’ daughter did not answer.

 

[RANCH]

Per the transcripts of the preliminary hearings, the daughter disclosed the contents of conversations with the judge, given that information along with the fact that it was ON the judge’s phone, regardless of the mental state of the sheriff I think it can probably be concluded that there were previous conversations between the judges and the daughter (for whatever reason, innocent, nefarious, corrupt or whatever) my college age kids don’t give out or get classmates phone numbers, those are “private” and “personal” they share social media or WhatsApp contact info and have ways of contacting and WiFi calling or using Google phone or whatever- there seems to be previous conversations and contact between the judge and the daughter- via the phone and the fact that she was called from both phones AND the video was edited to show only partial interactions- in my opinion- if her exact number was logged on his phone under her exact name, may or may not be relevant- the prosecution seems to be obscuring things on purpose and the defense seems to be wanting to point that out…and we don’t have enough evidence to do much more than ruminate and speculate-

I think it makes people uncomfortable to think that a sane upstanding elected official would get pushed over a limit to the point that he acted as he did- I’m not justifying his actions, and I’d like to believe that I’d never do anything like that or that out of character- but I don’t know the whole story and I do know people who have done shocking things under extreme circumstances, perceived and real- I don’t know specifically what causes a man to execute his best friend - but I can think of a few that might tempt a man to take matters into his own hands- doesn’t justify it, but might explain it
Moo

I think it's way too early in the process to say that the prosecution is obscuring things on purpose.

They just needed to provided probable cause for this case to go to the grand jury which they did in the preliminary hearing. Who's numbers where saved on whatever phones or what possible conversations where made just doesn't need to be presented yet. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

I’m not finding anywhere saying the daughter answered the call from Judge Mullins’ phone that fateful day.

What I have found in regards to the daughter’s phone—Judge’s phone:

“[Kentucky State Police Det. Clayton] Stamper confirmed that phone records showed that the cell phone of Stines’ daughter had previously been called from the judge’s phone.”
(CNN, 10/1/2024)

So, I think that’s saying the Judge has called Stines’ daughter on a prior occasion, according to her phone’s records? And not just the day Stines shot the Judge? I’m unsure. Moo
—-

“Kentucky State Police later clarified that they have no evidence the daughter’s phone number was on the judge’s phone before the sheriff dialed it, despite court testimony that suggested that.”

“It’s not clear why the sheriff called his daughter from the judge’s phone. [Trooper Matt] Gayheart says Stines’ daughter did not answer.”
(NPR, 10/8/2024)

Does this NPR statement clarify or confuse the CNN report above that phone records show the Judge’s phone previously called the daughter’s phone?

Gayheart is a State Police spokesman. He says Stines’ daughter did not answer.

I'm not sure either.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

They just needed to provided probable cause for this case to go to the grand jury which they did in the preliminary hearing.

That’s absolutely true- my opinion was that there was some laxity and vagueness in the prosecution’s testimony- I have no idea what the facts, motives and or intentions are- was trying to say how it appeared to me

 

[RANCH]

That’s absolutely true- my opinion was that there was some laxity and vagueness in the prosecution’s testimony- I have no idea what the facts, motives and or intentions are- was trying to say how it appeared to me

That could be.

But we do know that the judge bound this case to the grand jury because he found probable cause and that was the goal for the prosecution. JMO.

 

[gitana1]

Except the lead detective did make it very clear during prelim, that at least he was under the impression that even though the daughter's phone wasn't obtained, whatever would have been on it would also be found in the judge's cell records, and that she also made statements to whoever interviewed her, about what occured during her conversations with the judge.

So, there's that. And who in the world knows what that means or how that fits, but that's what he said.

Yeah but that doesn’t mean there was anything nefarious going on.

 

[gitana1]

This mention of an "episode" by the sheriff is really interesting. Could be mental or physical. Hopefully doctors are following it up right now. It doesn't sound like he was trying to hide it, so there should be some people who know something about it, especially his family. It could be the answer to everything.

Where did you see that?

 

[RANCH]

Where did you see that?

The judge and sheriff denied any knowledge of the crimes to which the now-former deputy pleaded guilty. It’s unclear if the case is connected to the shooting.

The plaintiff and her two attorneys said Stines appeared agitated during the hours-long deposition and frequently asked for breaks. At one point, Stines was asked whether he had authorized his deputy to use public equipment to manage the ankle monitors.

“I don’t recall,” said Stines. “ I am having an episode. Sorry.”

Why was a Kentucky judge killed? So far, it remains a mystery

The one-of-a-kind killing of a Kentucky judge, allegedly by the local sheriff, has shaken tight-knit Letcher County, leaving people baffled and unnerved as police try to figure out a motive.

www.apr.org

 

[Tricia]

Thank you all so much. It's 2:35 AM and I am reading everything.
@slowpoke thank you for the NPR link
I had not seen that yet.
According to the spokesperson in the NPR article the daughter did not answer.
Then why did Stines shoot the judge after dialing his daughter's number? Unless, something has been left out of between the time he dialed her number and shot the judge.
My 2:35 am brain seems to remember reading the sheriff shot the judge right after he dialed his daughter from the judge's phone.
If the daughter did not answer from the judge's phone then I am leaning toward the motive may be some sort of mental break that only makes sense to the Sheriff. IMO.
I reserve the right to change my theory hundreds of times before this case is over.

 

[sunspun]

Now I'm starting to think that the only reason he called daughter at that time, right before he knew he was about to shoot the judge, was to say goodbye to her or to apologize or give her advance warning of what she'd be about to hear he did or even maybe to tell her why he did it.

If so, that still tells us nothing about why he killed him. Mental illness likely, imo.

 

[Kemug]

I reserve the right to change my theory hundreds of times before this case is over.

Don't we all?!

 

[Seattle1]

Thank you all so much. It's 2:35 AM and I am reading everything.
@slowpoke thank you for the NPR link
I had not seen that yet.
According to the spokesperson in the NPR article the daughter did not answer.
Then why did Stines shoot the judge after dialing his daughter's number? Unless, something has been left out of between the time he dialed her number and shot the judge.
My 2:35 am brain seems to remember reading the sheriff shot the judge right after he dialed his daughter from the judge's phone.
If the daughter did not answer from the judge's phone then I am leaning toward the motive may be some sort of mental break that only makes sense to the Sheriff. IMO.
I reserve the right to change my theory hundreds of times before this case is over.

^^bbm

@Tricia -- here's another MSM. Maybe Stines viewed the call history and there were more calls from Mullins phone to his teens number than he was happy about, and it topped him over.

Following the prelim hearing, KSP Trooper Matt Gayheart was dispatched to issue a clarification to the answers Stamper provided during his testimony about the phone calls:

Kentucky State Police Trooper Matt Gayheart told FOX 56 News on Wednesday that contrary to how it was stated in court, investigators won’t know if her number was saved in Mullins’ phone until forensic reports come back in a few weeks. However, the call log reportedly showed her number had been called prior to the shooting.

Surveillance video showed that the shooting occurred just moments after the calls were made.

Stamper said that Stines’ daughter has been interviewed with a parent present, but her phone was not collected as evidence yet.

https://www.wjhl.com/news/local/former-letcher-county-sheriff-accused-of-killing-judge-to-appear-in-court/?nxsparam=1

 

[Kemug]

Where did you see that?

Please see #820.

 

[Seattle1]

Now I'm starting to think that the only reason he called daughter at that time, right before he knew he was about to shoot the judge, was to say goodbye to her or to apologize or give her advance warning of what she'd be about to hear he did or even maybe to tell her why he did it.

If so, that still tells us nothing about why he killed him. Mental illness likely, imo.

So many unanswered questions!

For example, Stines had to know when he stood up and took ready to fire the first shot in Chambers that he could very well soon be shot if Mullins bailiff entered the room, let alone after 8 shots fired.

I've asked myself repeatedly if this was a potential suicide by cop but then we learned that Stines appeared calm following the shooting, so I take this to mean that whatever threat he believed was putting his family in danger, was neutralized.

Since there appears not to have been any reports about possible threats of kidnapping of the Stines family before, or after the shooting, I think the statement by Stines after he was taken into custody about a kidnapping was likely a self serving, after-the-fact comment when he started thinking about mitigating factors to save himself from the death penalty after taking down a sitting District Court Judge! MOO

More recently, we have his attorney-- Jeremy Bartley, promoting his client's shooting as a crime of passion (i.e., aka extreme emotional disturbance) which I think leads us back to whatever he saw on the phone. I dunno. I think manslaughter in the 2nd degree is going to be a hard sell after a juror watches the execution video we saw during the prelim hearing. JMO

 

[jlo6161a]

Don't we all?!

Me too.

We all are invested into the idea that the key factor was the phone(s) and what occurred happened because of what played out on them. It's embedded itself into our mindsets. I guess we can't help it; their involvement is an intriguing part of this mystery. They've sparked a lot of rumors and theories.

But remember there was also a discussion going on at the same time, an argument or disagreement - which wasn't recorded on audio unfortunately - and that could have been the triggering factor. Stine's anxiety over the calls and making contact with family could have been what pushed him over the edge. He was worried about family and perhaps at that point he blamed the judge for whatever current situation he found himself in - and 'resolved' it right there.

I'm sure we'll get more info on the calls/phones. But I suspect it will also be interpretation of the body language of the two individuals on that portion of the video we have not yet seen that may give us just as much of a clue. I'd be interested to see if the judge is talking at length to the sheriff. He would be facing the camera. Or if Stines is reacting more to him or to the phone in his hand. Up to now, our information as to the unseen timeline has been matter-of-fact but also secondhand.

Unless there is a plea deal, we probably won't see any more video until there is an actual trial. Even if the defense sees it earlier in discovery, I don't think it would be shared publicly.

I wonder if this could be one or two years away.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Yeah but that doesn’t mean there was anything nefarious going on.

There could indeed be an innocent explanation for what the detective described as what "occurred during those conversations" Stines' daughter had with the judge on her phone.

The way it looks right now, I suspect those conversations were key to Stines' motive.

jmo

 

[OldAce]

It's possible that Stines daughter ignored her fathers call and answered the call from Mullins phone. We just don't know yet what exactly took place. And we don't know if Mullins number was saved in the daughters contact list or merely in the call log because her father dialed it.

The "kidnap" comment was allowed hearsay at the prelim that may not be a verbatim quote of the officers who directly heard it.


I'm with you on trying to figure this one out. It's a really rare type of case along with video of the murder being released but not much else which is leading to a whole lot of speculation on motive.

https://www.wjhl.com/news/local/for...-killing-judge-to-appear-in-court/?nxsparam=1

It seems like a whole lot of "Lets get this thing "done" without lot of detail being offered. Not a cover up, but lets not hang it all out on the line. Something was going on in the county. Stines had gotten enough, involved or not. He went to confirm something and in the confrontation the phone calls solidified it for him, so he "stopped" it. Simple as that, just need to learn what he knew and how it connected to his family.