Kidnaping Gone Bad

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Maikai, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    Why is this motive so hard to believe? There's several reasons to think this crime was as it appears to be. An attempted kidnapping that went bad, because the perps were amatuers. We have:

    *The note
    *Several accessible ways into the home, with the most obvious the broken basement window
    *Evidence that JBR was subdued and controlled
    *Recent publicity in the newspaper that JR was a billionaire (not true, but that was the impression)
    *A trophy-type child, who was touted in early articles as a former Little Miss Colorado. There would have been plenty of evidence of this in the house.

    Once the idea was planted, the rest falls in place. The hastily constructed garrote could have been done as a form of control....there could have been more than one, and one bailed out early, leaving one with a struggling child--and in too deep to get out, if the perp was in a state of panic. If one, the same scenario---things had gotten out of hand, and he didn't know how to get out of it. The two-perp scenario makes sense to me because two together may do what one alone wouldn't have the nerve to--they would feed off of each other.
     
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  3. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    And why didn't they just take her body and try and get the money anyway?

    Why did they write three pages of a ransom note expressing their respect for John Ramsey and showing off their knowledge of movie lines?


    And if they simply panicked and fled, why hide the body and not the ransom note too?
     
  4. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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  5. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    If they couldn't plan a legitimate kidnapping, then the murder may not have been intentional, and they cut the plans short. He may not have wanted to risk seen carrying a dead body around, and may have thought they needed her alive, to prove they had her....or if one found himself alone, with the other one bailing out early, he'd have no reason to continue the plan.

    Why does any writer write the way they do? Planning the note beforehand could have been part of the excitement...and they may have felt the note would do the trick---if the Ramseys didn't call the police, it would be easy to get the money out of them. It's a long rambling note, with the first 2/3's at least showing some thought beforehand, IMO. The taunting and sarcastic last part seems more adlibbed.
     
  6. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    :waitasec:
    So now it's THEY? So you are saying that THEY were watching the house and knew the Ramseys called the police, therefore gave up on getting the money????

    Good thing they are imaginary or else if they really knew that, they might have beheaded her as promised in THEIR note.

    You still haven't explained why thinking John was a billionaire, they only asked for $118,000?

    You still haven't explained why in THEIR panic, they remembered to take the tape, etc. that is unaccounted for.

    :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
     
  7. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    What about the sexual assault? Which motive is the real motive?

    Were they stupid amateurs? Did they just forget they'd written the note? If they were so stupid, how did they cleverly manage not to leave any evidence? And why cleverly leave no evidence yet "forget" the two hugest pieces of evidence - the body and the note?

    So....we have two amateur criminals bumbling their way through a variety of crimes in a stranger's home on Christmas night, spending hours in the home (as they wait for the family to return, then wait for the family to prepare for and go to bed, then fall asleep) yet leaving no physical evidence -- no fingerprints, no DNA, no hair, no noise -- and volunteering a three-page handwriting sample and leaving behind the collateral.

    And why would an intruder need to, or bother to, stage the crime scene?

    The staging:
    1. blocking the train room door with the chair after entering the house through the train room window
    2. a ransom-for-money note, but a sexually assaulted victim
    3. a useless piece of postmortem duct tape... (in any case, try the tape yourself and see how "subdued" you are)
    4. ditto the wrist cord

    WHY the above things? How do they fit into "motive"? If they are not "staging," what are they?
     
  8. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    they didn't post......so here goes...

     
  9. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    So where does the sexual molestation come into it? If they clobbered her and throttled her to silence her - why sexually assault her with a paintbrush?

    So you are assuming that the kidnappers intended to spend ages in the house composing and writing the note? Wouldn't genuine kidnappers get in and out AQAP?
     
  10. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    Yes, they were stupid amateurs---they blew the kidnapping, and they left evidence. Amateurs make mistakes. They left DNA, a footprint, trace fibers and hair, and their handwriting. I don't think they knew printing--even disguised might be able to be traced back, if they got on the radar screen.

    The sexual assault, IMO, was incidental to the true crime---wouldn't be the first case where there was another motive, and a victim sexually assaulted out of anger. If the train room door was blocked, then it was done on the way out---a temporary barricade, just in case someone came charging down the stairs. There's no reason to think the perp was cool, calm and collected.

    They left the body, because it was more incriminating to be found with a dead body,then leave it behind. They may have thought they needed her alive to prove they had her. If the crime got out of hand, then the plan unravelled.
     
  11. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Stupid amateurs who tied an "elaborate" knot? And who have evaded capture for 7+ years?
     
  12. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    IMO, this whole "movie" script being a part of the ransom note is not an issue. It sounds good while speculating, but I truly believe the movies don't play any part (at least intentionally) in the writing of the note. It's been fun reading all the comparisons though and gave the Ramseys something to sidetrack about.

    You said they gave up the plan (you think) when JBR was killed, but you said earlier that they would have gotten the money if the Ramseys didn't call the police, inferring that they were in fact watching and planning to get the money anyway (unless I misunderstood your post). Asking for 2 million when a person has more, is still TWO MILLION DOLLARS AND PETTY CASH. Thinking John is a "BILLIONAIRE" and asking for 118K is quite different AND not comparable to the ratio described in Ransom.

    Taking in the items they "brought" still shows they didn't panic and had THEIR wits about them enough to remove those items, why not the ransom note. It wasn't too heavy and would have fit in a knapsack.

    I beg to differ: Garrotting is not symbolic of beheading. This was someone supposedly old enough to have a hatred for John, yet plays video games for inspiration? Video games are more in tune with young children, say 9 years old?
     
  13. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I would also wonder why the Bungle Brothers didn't take a few items of value when their kidnapping went awry?
     
  14. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    Kidnappers who really plan a kidnapping as you describe as "going bad" don't come prepared with a stun gun, tape, cord, etc. and then hope there is enough time, material, etc. to write the ransom note THERE AT THE SCENE. That's just ridiculous.

    If this were a true kidnapping, the kidnappers would have had everything prepared, no? Like in the movies the kidnappers watch, according to the RST. They paste letters from newspapers, magazines and the like onto pieces of paper so that the handwriting cannot be traced.

    Either they are movie buffs or they are not. Either they are amateur or they are not. Either they are pedophiles or they are not. Either they are.......or they are not....the list is endless.
     
  15. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



     
  16. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I think they would most likely would prepare a ransom note with a computer. Very few people don't have access to computers nowadays.
     
  17. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    Back in 1996, computers weren't quite as common as now. I didn't have one until 1997 and many people I know got theirs around the same time.

    I'd be curious to find out how many documented cases of kidnapping had handwritten ransom notes. I'll try to research that as well.
     
  18. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Maybe so, but there were word processors and typewriters.
     
  19. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    Hard drives can be checked.....typing traced back to paper and printer. There could have been a computer generated note---the length of the note would be much less on a typed page....it could have been copied onto the notepad because of opportunity. The cross-offs in the printed note could have been the result of copying, and losing his place.
     
  20. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Checking the hard-drive would only be useful if it were ever saved. If I were going to do somethig like this, I wouldn't save it.

    Of course, I have proved how effectively one can copy someone's handwriting by computer. I used a scanned copy of another poster's London Letter to fake a Lord's prayer. It was more than passable. I posted the results at Purgatory some months ago.
     
  21. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    I don't think they necessarily had to be pedophiles. Movie buffs, yes---the note was a copycat of several extortion movies---and then there's the marked up entreprenaur article which is from "Rocochet." I can see someone having a great deal of fun composing it, and anticipating at some point it would be known, and people would puzzle over it. They brought in a burglary/kidnapping kit----but didn't think it through, which is why they botched it.
     

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