Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

Who do you believe killed JonBenet?

  • Patsy

    Votes: 168 25.0%
  • John

    Votes: 44 6.6%
  • Burke

    Votes: 107 15.9%
  • an unknown intruder

    Votes: 86 12.8%
  • BR (head bash), then JR

    Votes: 4 0.6%
  • BR (head bash); then JR & PR (strangled/coverup)

    Votes: 113 16.8%
  • Knowing all I know, still on the fence.

    Votes: 55 8.2%
  • John, with an 'inside' accomplice

    Votes: 11 1.6%
  • I think John and Patsy caught him and he made her cover up

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • I still have no idea

    Votes: 57 8.5%
  • patsy and john helped cover it up

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • Total voters
    671
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Venom

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This crime is just so....odd. A lot of things are plausible. A lot doesn't seem to make sense. Why even try to cover a head bash? Was it even trying to be covered? :dunno:
It's like a game of clue.
 

gramcracker

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I have to say I can not think of any scenario where they think garroting her will be a better cover. If she bashed her head they could have left her at the bottom of the stairs, Next to a pipe, something... But the garroting just changes the whole thing.
a ligature points to an impersonal, uncaring outsider (staging) and would perhaps have been more believable if not for all the lies and inconsistencies

the significance of the head bash and ligature pale in comparison to the significance of all the lies and inconsistencies and drama and lack of cooperation

when they thought they were leaving town JB would have remained behind, cold and alone

when they had to stay in town she became a priority: those meanies are trying to hold her body for rannnnsommmm
 

Blue Bottle 01

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1. What was she suspended from?

2. The marks on her neck do not support that she was hung. Iirc

1. I don't know.

2. Actually they do.

3. The torso and arms were posed upright, full body suspension is at least problematic.
 

Linda7NJ

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1. I don't know.

2. Actually they do.

3. The torso and arms were posed upright, full body suspension is at least problematic.

She was in rigor. Her body wasn't bent.

Her arms were simply raised above her head...in a most unnatural way...I will agree. I can't imagine arms of an unconscious child staying in that position all by themselves.

Fleet saw her on the ground.

I do recall much speculation that John moved the body during an earlier trip downstairs.

Hmmmmmmm

Although I recall, john Walsh stating something to the effect that she was hanging and John cut her down.
 

Blue Bottle 01

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She was posed by Patsy in an upright position with arms raised well before rigor.

She was taken down from that position and placed in the small room, wrapped and the duct tape applied to simulate a kidnapping scenario.

The arms remained in the upright postion until rigor.

The body was in that position when White saw her.

Walsh stating that she was "taken down" or "cut down" is one of the most damning things in this case that the Boulder authorities may have to answer to or it may mean nothing: it depends on what Walsh knew/thought/imagined/was told.
 

Mollyandme

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I have to say I can not think of any scenario where they think garroting her will be a better cover. If she bashed her head they could have left her at the bottom of the stairs, Next to a pipe, something... But the garroting just changes the whole thing.

there really is no way to get inside of a murderer's head and try to rationalize what they did. i can't think of a scenario where someone would actually murder their own child because in my mind, and the mind of most rational people, which i think we all are rational people on here, its the most disgusting, horrendous thing one could do, but it happens unfortunately. i don't think the garroting is a reason to exclude the ramsey's at all. All other evidence points to one of the Ramseys (IMO patsy ramsey).
 

Linda7NJ

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there really is no way to get inside of a murderer's head and try to rationalize what they did. i can't think of a scenario where someone would actually murder their own child because in my mind, and the mind of most rational people, which i think we all are rational people on here, its the most disgusting, horrendous thing one could do, but it happens unfortunately. i don't think the garroting is a reason to exclude the ramsey's at all. All other evidence points to one of the Ramseys (IMO patsy ramsey).

I was under the impression, please correct me if I'm wrong, when Fleet & John together first saw her ... She was laying on her back. Yes?
 

Venom

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I was under the impression, please correct me if I'm wrong, when Fleet & John together first saw her ... She was laying on her back. Yes?

Yes she was. The lividity marks on the body show that she was laying down since death.
 

Mollyandme

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Flat on her back with arms up in front? Right?

yes i believe so. i just saw the pictures of her neck and i was so upset i almost threw up. the photos i saw showed her hands while being measured/examined during autopsy so i couldn't tell how her arms were but at the actual crime scene i believe you are correct that she was flat on her back with her up. The ramseys are in this up to their eyeballs and it is truly disturbing. I was 9 years old when this happened and i still remember seeing a news clip about it before my mom quickly changed the channel. I'm still digging around the internet and these forums for other info so I'm completely informed
 

SapphireSteel

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The only way the ligatures and garrotte makes sense (to me) is if it was part of the abuse. Then, it makes perfect sense.

They didn't add them afterwards, they neglected to remove them - until JR started picking at them that is. Maybe they imagined it was something a "kidnapper" would do anyway.

It really is the only thing that explains them. They weren't part of the staging at all, but part of the crime.

:cow:
 

Venom

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Flat on her back with arms up in front? Right?

Not real sure on the arms. I always thought they were above her head

o< Bad attempt at what I mean here, but the o is her head and the < would be here arms. If that makes sense. :blushing:
 

redheadedgal

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The only way the ligatures and garrotte makes sense (to me) is if it was part of the abuse. Then, it makes perfect sense.

They didn't add them afterwards, they neglected to remove them - until JR started picking at them that is. Maybe they imagined it was something a "kidnapper" would do anyway.

It really is the only thing that explains them. They weren't part of the staging at all, but part of the crime.


didn't the FBI call this evidence "staging within staging"? (does anyone have the source for the original quote?)

sorry sapphire, but i'll defer to their education, experience and expertise on this one.
 

Linda7NJ

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Not real sure on the arms. I always thought they were above her head

o< Bad attempt at what I mean here, but the o is her head and the < would be here arms. If that makes sense. :blushing:

I am dying laughing at your stick drawing! Lol

No, that didn't help at all. Lol

I'm gonna try to explain it better. I was under the impression she was found by John laying flat on her back, with her face facing the ceiling, wrapped up like a papoose in the blanket. ( wonder what part of her was visibly exposed?) her arm stretched up by her ears almost as if she just landed a gymnastic move.... But arms not flat on the ground... In front of her body ... Defying gravity.

I remember thinking a long time ago....maybe they raised up off the ground due to muscle contraction during rigor. ( I don't know if that's even possible, I was was just wondering)

But the other day, I was thinking if she had died on her side... That wouldn't be that awkward of an arm position.

I'm still wondering based on the bottles post that she had been suspended at some point. I wish I could show you... It's so hard to explain.
 

DeeDee249

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Not real sure on the arms. I always thought they were above her head

o< Bad attempt at what I mean here, but the o is her head and the < would be here arms. If that makes sense. :blushing:

This is a common source of confusion. Her arms can be seen in crime scene photos as she lay on the living room carpet. Her hands are bagged in browm paper bags and you can see the position of her arms. There is a misleading drawing of her showing her arms straight up over her head, but flat on the floor. This was drawn by someone who never actually saw the body or was even at the house. And it is incorrect.
Her arms were pulled up in front of her face, arms bent at the elbow like a boxer. When Det Arndt observed JR carrying her up from the basement, he was holding her body around the waist (Transfer of that touch DNA?) and she was stiff as a board, held straight up like a mannequin. Arndt described her arms as being held "straight up with no support", which is how she determined her to be in full rigor mortis.
 

Linda7NJ

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qerutavu.jpg


ybypezun.jpg


Ok... I've lost my mind.

I took a teddy bear and bound the hands . Covered like a papoose, let foot exposed as Fleet saw a foot... And posed it like I envisioned her.

No teddy bears were injured :)
 

Linda7NJ

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This is a common source of confusion. Her arms can be seen in crime scene photos as she lay on the living room carpet. Her hands are bagged in browm paper bags and you can see the position of her arms. There is a misleading drawing of her showing her arms straight up over her head, but flat on the floor. This was drawn by someone who never actually saw the body or was even at the house. And it is incorrect.
Her arms were pulled up in front of her face, arms bent at the elbow like a boxer. When Det Arndt observed JR carrying her up from the basement, he was holding her body around the waist (Transfer of that touch DNA?) and she was stiff as a board, held straight up like a mannequin. Arndt described her arms as being held "straight up with no support", which is how she determined her to be in full rigor mortis.

So she was in fact on her side?

How were her legs?

Was she on her side in a fetal position?
 

DeeDee249

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So she was in fact on her side?

How were her legs?

Was she on her side in a fetal position?


NO. She was on her BACK in the winecellar. Remember livor mortis. It PROVES she was on her back. But the crime scene investigators turned her on her side to take that photo. She was likely turned in other positions for other photos as well, but they have not been made public. She was never in a fetal position anywhere.
Livor mortis and rigor mortis indicate her legs were straight.
 

DeeDee249

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qerutavu.jpg


ybypezun.jpg


Ok... I've lost my mind.

I took a teddy bear and bound the hands . Covered like a papoose, let foot exposed as Fleet saw a foot... And posed it like I envisioned her.

No teddy bears were injured :)

Her arms were not splayed out flat on either side of her head like that. They were pulled up in front of her face, bent at the elbow. Stand in front of a mirror and pretend you are a boxer ready to fight. Put your "dukes" up in that pose. That is how her arms were.
 

tezi

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DeeDee249,

Thank you for explaining the body position to us.

Also I forgot to mention you as one of my heroes for Justice for JonBenet. Thank you...You inspire me every day to do better for JonBenet!


JMO
 
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