Known rope in the house

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by why_nutt, Dec 29, 2003.

  1. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    Remember what Patsy said about the rope found in John Andrew's room, how she had never seen that kind of rope inside the house before?

    TH: You don't remember that being used anywhere in the house or yard or --

    PR: No.

    TH: Would you think that unusual to be found in the house?

    PR: Yeah. I mean, Burke had some ropes that he would play with through something out on the playground, you know, in that, in that picture yesterday the rope around the, the fort, you know, or something.

    TH: Right.

    PR: Always trying to make a boat or something like that.

    TH: This was found inside the house.

    PR: Inside the house?

    TH: In John Andrew's rom?

    PR: Oh. Maybe it was a, some rope he used for camping or something, I don't know.

    TD: Did he have rope in his room that he would use for camping?

    PR: ...I don't know. I just don't remember seeing this specifically, and I don't remember ever seeing a rope like that.


    Hmm. Interesting. Because in 1994, Patsy herself decorated her house with such a rope, and captured the fact on videotape. Portions of the Christmas house tour video were broadcast on MSNBC Investigates, and look at what a closeup shot of the festive dining table reveals:

    http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/tablerope.jpg
     
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  3. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    Excellent find, why_nutt! Do you happen to have a photo of the rope that was in JAR's room? It seems to me I saw one somewhere, but I don't remember where.
     
  4. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    This is the rope found in John Andrew's room.

    http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/johnandrewroomrope.jpg
     
  5. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

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    Thanks, why_nutt!! I also believe that JAR's room had (don't know which year--home tour or the fated year) a Christmas tree decorated in a cowboy motiff. I think it's also a possibility that tree might have had some rope on it as decoration.

    Patsy was in that room on Christmas day, packing, and it's likely she was looking in that closet and would have seen it.
     
  6. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    Thanks, why_nutt. The two ropes appear identical! Why would Patsy lie about never having seen a rope in the house like the one in JAR's room? It was different from the cord used in the garotte, so why was it important that she distance herself from the rope?
     
  7. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    The rope on the dining room table looks to me to be upholstery/pillow trim. It's not expensive and you can easily find yards and yards of it. I've got a drawerfull. I don't think one would use regular rope on a festive Christmas table (even if it was painted gold.)
     
  8. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    The table rope, when scaled to the spoon and the glasses in the picture, appears to be 1/2 inch diameter manila rope that has been spray painted.

    As I recall, the rope in JAR's room was also 1/2 inch manila rope because it was taped on the end to keep it from fraying. Man-made rope (nylon, etc.) is usually melted on the end to keep it from fraying.

    Just my opinion.
     
  9. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I agree that the two ropes could be the same type. When you compare the table rope to the cutlery, wine glass stems and even the candle, it appears to be at least 1/2 inch and more likely between 3/4-1 inch in diameter.

    It does seem like a rather impratical table decoration, but I doubt it was intended for actual eating. If it was for the home tour, then it would be purely ornamental - practicalities set aside.
     
  10. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I have taken a photograph of a wine glass alongside some gold upholstery trim of the sort Tipper described for comparison.

    Can I send it to you to post? I don't have any webspace to upload it to and link. If so, could you PM me an e-mail addy?
     
  11. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

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    A pathological liar will lie because it is more creative than the truth. And what they create is their own self image as they think others see tthem.
     
  12. Toth

    Toth Inactive

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    Are the two ropes in any way similar? Would you expect to find a rope of any sort lying in the JAR/Guestroom? Which of these two ropes do you think produced the dna found under her fingernails and in her panties?
     
  13. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

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    JAR's room doubled as a guest room, that would make it likely the closet in there held some items not used often. Also, that rope could likely have been one JAR used, or one that was used to decorate his tree. It's certainly not unthinkable that the rope in that room couldn't have been one used for table deco, either. The basement held most of that kind of 'stuff', but I wouldn't doubt for a second that Patsy would stuff things in JAR's closet as opposed to running to the basement with it, either.
     
  14. gretchen

    gretchen Former Member

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    Very interesting WhyNutt. Also, as Imon said, JAR's room wasn't used too often and probably had items stored in there. I know I use my guest room closet for storage sometimes.
    I agree the rope on the dining room table looks identical to the rope found in John Andrew's room. Probably just Patsy's selective memory coming into play.
     
  15. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    The rope may be a significant clue.

    A pile of heavy rope like this is not what one would expect to find stored in JAR's bedroom or in a guest's bedroom. There must be at least 15 feet of rope there. The garage would be a more appropriate place to store it.

    The rope appears to be 1/2 inch or 5/8 inch 3-strand manila rope. It's not the type of rope used in sailing. Manila rope is used more in the construction industry and other heavy-lifting jobs.

    Several years ago I remember some detailed discussions taking place on this forum about the possible source for some seemingly patterned circumferential abrasions barely noticeable on JonBenet's neck. A twisted telephone cord was one of the top candidates as the source for the patterned marks. But it looks like heavy 1/2 inch twisted 3-strand manila rope like that found in JAR's bedroom might fit the bill much better.

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab
     
  16. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    Judging from the JBR autopsy photos I've seen, I think the garotte cord was what was used to strangle her. Here's a link to a photo at ACandyRose's site showing a ligature mark, which appears to correspond more closely to the width of the garotte cord than to the width of the rope.

    WARNING: the photo is quite graphic.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceright.jpg
     
  17. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Ivy,

    No one is questioning that the cord deeply imbedded into the upper part of JonBenet's neck was Stansport brand 1/4" white nylon cord.

    What is being questioned is the source of the patterned abrasions barely visible in the broad circumferential mark on the lower part of JonBenet's neck. The 1/2" twisted 3-strand manila rope found in JAR's room could have been the source of that lower injury on the neck.

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab
     
  18. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    Good point BlueCrab. There ARE strange scalloped marks on her neck that need explaining. They could easily be why the garrote was used--to hide these marks (or at least take them away from the focus of attention). Dr. Spitz was probably right about a prior strangulation.
     
  19. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    An old poster called Cutter had an interesting theory about the scalloped marks on her neck. He theorised that she had originally been strangled by the telephone cord. As I recollect, someone posted an image of a strangulation by telephone cord.
     
  20. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    In the autopsy photo, I think the blanched area on the lower part of the neck shows where the cord was positioned when the garotte was yanked the first time. The blanched area seems to be the same width as the cord. The red areas surrounding the blanched area appear to be petechial hemmorhages. I agree the rope could have been used, but I see no indication of it. For some reason, I can't see the scalloped pattern others of you do.
     
  21. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    If the thin cord was applied after an earlier strangulation with something else, I guess the big question is "Why?". Who would think the original material used to strangle JBR would lead back to him or her? And why would the killer stage both a kidnapping and a murder scene?
     

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