UNSOLVED KS - Skeleton Found In Coffin In Business Attic In Derby, *graphic Pics* June 2018

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Gardener1850, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. dorothyland

    dorothyland Well-Known Member

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    Heyyyyyyyy!

    Based on my experience in selling oddities for five years, this look like an Odd Fellows skeleton.

    I've worked at an oddities shop for 5 years and we sell 2 or 3 human skeletons a year, usually with a small coffin, just like the one pictured, and they almost exclusively come from Odd Fellows lodges.

    There's a line in the article quoted that mentions the skeletons were sometimes wried up and shaking with electricity for initiation ceremonies. The article says they cannot confirm this, however, I CAN confirm that. One of one of our former skeletons that we had for almost a year was electrically wired with red lightbulbs in her eyes.

    Also, every skeleton we've received from Odd Fellows lodges have been female, sometimes teenage females.
     


  2. drama_farmer

    drama_farmer Central Kentucky (Bluegrass)

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    Thanks! How fascinating!
    Do skeletons and other "remains" collectibles come with a provenance? What sort of laws apply when selling skeletons? Do you have to produce some sort of "guarantee" that the skeleton got that way due to natural causes?
    Sorry for the third degree, but I find this story (and your job) incredibly interesting for some reason :)
     
  3. 2Hope4

    2Hope4 Well-Known Member

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    Bizarre! And to think people can BUY a human skeleton?@?!?! Is that even legal? In VA, there's laws about buying animals that have been mounted. I can't imagine.
     
  4. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    I know WSER who has experience working in funeral homes. Marking spot to pm her.
     
  5. Confusion

    Confusion Creative Spelling Expert

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    I think they finally found Jimmy Hoffa!
     
  6. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Have a nice day!

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    Very interesting. Is there a reason why the skeletons are females? And happy birthday!
     
  7. 2Hope4

    2Hope4 Well-Known Member

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    You owe me a new keyboard, and a refill on my drink. Thanks! :cool:
     
  8. Wire154a

    Wire154a Former Member

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    In terms of missing persons, perhaps the most infamous Kansas case, that of Adam Herrman, c. 1999 from Towanda, involved a search warrant carried out ten years later at his adoptive parents' home in....Derby KS.
     
  9. dorothyland

    dorothyland Well-Known Member

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    Hi!

    Usually, we do not usually know the origins of the remains. We will have an idea, or a theory, based on who the seller was. For example, we buy several skeletons from lodges, along with also buying other items of ornamental use for "secret societies". We also buy human skulls that often come from China, and are sometimes questionable on cause of death. I have wondered if most of our Odd Fellows skeletons (especially the female ones) are from past grave robbing.

    Here's an article that may offer some interesting insights on how these skeletons are often times a mixture of more than one person:

    http://www.ontarioarchaeology.on.ca/Resources/Publications/oa85-88 part 11.pdf

    I am in a state where we are not allowed to ship human bones across state lines and only sell in store. We can, however, purchase from overseas and buy skeletons in state that are brought to us.

    NO guarantee of natural death is required. However, since we stick to mostly old lodge skeletons and some bones from China, which are considered for the purpose of medical teaching, I don't worry about the skeletons we have.

    I do sometimes worry that human remains are found in manners like this thread shows, and that it takes time away from LE and cases they should be researching instead.

    No worries about the third degree. It's a fun job, and a really weird one too.
     
  10. dorothyland

    dorothyland Well-Known Member

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    Hey!

    I do not know why, but in my response above to drama_farmer, I post an article about the potential origins for Odd Fellows skeletons.

    Thank you for the birthday wishes!
     
  11. Laughing

    Laughing Well-Known Member

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    Long, long ago I was told that skeletons for educational (classroom) use were taken out of the Ganges River in India.

    IDK if that was accurate at the time, way off base, preposterous.....
     
  12. charminglane

    charminglane Helcat!

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    I heard that or read that, too. ^^^^^^
     
  13. Elainera

    Elainera Well-Known Member

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    Just last month my dentist, who studied in the US, explained something about teeth to me by showing it to me on a real human skull, which he had bought while in the US. Apparently that's quite common for folks who study medicine. I guess they also buy whole skeletons. But where, I don't know, I didn't ask him.
     
  14. LilacStar79

    LilacStar79 Active Member

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    That coffin looks very old. I'd say 19th century. America moved over to the more typical rectangular casket shape in the earlier 20th century.
     
  15. Al Ka

    Al Ka Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question. I have read few month ago about the same topic (regulation, law and provenance of deceased bodies in US) due to different case here - (Embalmed head found in Pennsylvania - PA - PA - Beaver Co., WhtFem Head UP13338, 40-80, embalmed, gray hair, Dec'14)

    I have not located today article I read at that time, but here is one with similar details:

    Each year, thousands of Americans donate their bodies in the belief they are contributing to science. In fact, many are also unwittingly contributing to commerce, their bodies traded as raw material in a largely unregulated national market.

    Body brokers are also known as non-transplant tissue banks. They are distinct from the organ and tissue transplant industry, which the U.S. government closely regulates. Selling hearts, kidneys and tendons for transplant is illegal.

    But no federal law governs the sale of cadavers or body parts for use in research or education. Few state laws provide any oversight whatsoever, and almost anyone, regardless of expertise, can dissect and sell human body parts.

    “The current state of affairs is a free-for-all,”
    ----
    The industry’s business model hinges on access to a large supply of free bodies, which often come from the poor. In return for a body, brokers typically cremate a portion of the donor at no charge. By offering free cremation, some deathcare industry veterans say, brokers appeal to low-income families at their most vulnerable. Many have drained their savings paying for a loved one’s medical treatment and can’t afford a traditional funeral.

    Few rules mean few consequences when bodies are mistreated.
    ---
    Despite the industry’s critically important role in medicine, no national registry of body brokers exists. Many can operate in near anonymity, quietly making deals to obtain cadavers and sell the parts.
    ---
    Reuters calculated that from 2011 through 2015, private brokers in 4 states (New York, Virginia, Oklahoma and Florida) received at least 50,000 bodies and distributed more than 182,000 body parts.
    ---
    As with other commodities, prices for bodies and body parts fluctuate with market conditions. Generally, a broker can sell a donated human body for about $3,000 to $5,000, though prices sometime top $10,000. But a broker will typically divide a cadaver into six parts to meet customer needs. Internal documents from seven brokers show a range of prices for body parts: $3,575 for a torso with legs; $500 for a head; $350 for a foot; $300 for a spine.


    Quite scary read and I was not aware of any of this happening until the other case. Makes me think again about donating my body to science. Much more details and also examples of mispractices in the article
    Special Report: In the market for human bodies, almost anyone can...
     
  16. Kankan

    Kankan Well-Known Member

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    How cool you work in a oddities store!! I bet you guys come across some fascinating stuff. Thanks for confirming my suspicion on this theory. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it came back as being an odd fellows skeleton.
     
  17. Kankan

    Kankan Well-Known Member

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    @dorothyland do you live in Kansas as well? Curious because of your name and also hoping the oddity shop is somewhere close lol.
     
  18. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    This skull does look female to me -- no brow ridge. But I am by no means an expert.
     
  19. Wire154a

    Wire154a Former Member

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    Definitely o/t in re: this skeleton, but, while we wait and see what the deal is here, an interesting AP article from last year from three hours away from Derby -- Jackson County, K.C. MO -- about ID'ing their more-than-several skeletal remains:

    Missouri County Examines Decades-Old Remains to Solve Cases

    A skeleton wearing a Doobie Brothers T-shirt found behind a West Bottoms warehouse in 1989.

    The body of a man in his 40s, tangled in the branches of a tree in 1995.

    A man's bones discovered in the sewer by city workers in 1998.

    These are just a few of the 22 unidentified bodies that the Jackson County Medical Examiner's office recently began trying to identify as part of a new undertaking with the Kansas City Police Department Missing Persons Unit.

    They're the oldest, coldest cases in Jackson County. No one knows who they were or, in some cases, how they died.
    --​
    story at the link above
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  20. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Have a nice day!

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    So far, Peterson’s office has eliminated at least a half-dozen of the unidentified cases as being anatomical specimens or historical artifacts of no investigative significance.

    Oh oh oh.....somebody mentioned something about wasting time on this skeleton and LE has better things on their mind. Indeed.....what a lot of work...from the article Wire posted....

    For instance, one was a skeleton a doctor had purchased in India for his son, a medical student. That skeleton was found in a Nike gym bag in the crawl space of a house. Another was an old skull found in an attic. But no foul play is suspected there.

    Read more here: Boxes of Bones: Medical Examiner’s office trying to solve oldest, coldest cases
     
    madamx, Marg from Oz, Alcina and 7 others like this.

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