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KY KY - Kathy, 48, & Samantha Netherland, 16, Botland, 21 April 2014

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Tulessa, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. bflocket

    bflocket Well-Known Member

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    His brother (the cop) was involved. At least after the fact, and that is proof that LE was involved in some way, shape or form regarding Crystal's disappearance. Brooks' brother wouldn't have been fired if he didn't try to steer the investigation away from the truth.
    That, along with Ellis' murder, definitely verify that there are shady things going on with the government and/or law enforcement in the county. Bardstown's gotten rid of its crooked mayor, but there's still plenty of corruption to go around.

    I said that the babysitter thing was just a rumor I heard. Where did you see anything about the Netherland girl not being the babysitter? I don't doubt you. I just hadn't heard one way or the other, at least in terms of "official news" news.

    I hope that the investigation(s) are moving forward. They talk about Crystal in the local news occasionally. But not about whether they are closer/further to figuring out what happened to her. It usually just involves the reward money and "If you know anything, call..."

    I've looked over Websleuths and many other crime websites over the years and it freaks me out that there's a thread on one of those websites talking about people that I've actually met. I knew of Crystal (as a Ballard) because she was a grade or two behind me in HS, but I didn't really hang out with her. NCHS wasn't a big school at all back then and was small enough to know at least someone's name and face whether you ran around together or not. I'd met Jason Ellis a few times before his murder and I met his (now deceased) K9 dog after his murder. His wife was a cheerleader a year or two younger than me and I don't know her well but I, somehow, hung out with a bunch of cheerleaders back in the day. And she was from my end of the county. The Netherlands lived near a friend of mine (or at least his parents) so I would occasionally drive past their home.

    And it was never common (at least until the past few years, it seems) to see Nelson County discussed on the news or online regarding unsolved crimes. There's the occasional murder, but those are generally solved fairly quickly. The only unsolved murder I can think of off of the top of my head is Lucinda Strange. She was found dead alongside the road close to a friend of mine's place. Officer Ellis' unsolved murder, at first, seemed to be an anomaly. But ever since his killing, unsolved murders seem almost commonplace around here and that's scary.

    When I read about the Netherland murders, I thought that the sister seemed "iffy." But since nothing's happened with her after all this time, I figured that the detectives had ruled her out. At least any info that's been released to the public. Whether one of the girls babysat for Crystal or not, tying these murders together actually kind of makes you (if a local) feel better.
    One big conspiracy theory isn't anywhere near as scary as knowing that there are several murderers living their "ordinary" day-to-day lives among us without knowing who they are or what they are capable of. And it ain't good when the murders of a teacher and one of her daughters are murders that are overshadowed by other crimes.

    Detectives say Brooks Houck killed Rogers
    Investigators say forensic evidence ties Nick Houck to cover up
    The Kentucky Standard (Bardstown, Ky)
     
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  2. samanthalawson69

    samanthalawson69 Member

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    I was so fascinated by case I'm up way past my bed time reading everything. I have a question of anyone who's researched this case. Early on in one of the articles I thought I read that they had DNA to analyze. Whatever happened with that? Was it a dead end?

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
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  3. rsd1200

    rsd1200 I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh

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    I just recently was reminded of this case and came to check out any progress. Would there not have been on file at the time, or still on file now, the ability to run that car info through a state wide database to see how many, and who owned, that year range, make and model, of vehicle, within say a 150-200 mile radius? By now, though, I see that car as being destroyed, or driven into a river, or lake.

    Just at first glance, one thing that stands out to me on this FB post is, obviously, Mom was boasting, but,it also says; "no matter what's going on in her life". I know her father was sick, and passed, in July, 2013 and I'm sure that was just awful, (for the entire family) but I feel like she might have meant, in addition to that, since this is eight months later. Also, I can't help but feel that some of these SN posts had a purpose beyond just proud mom's bragging rights. She went into pretty big detail on the youngest's, SN's, achievements. It seems SN was a very bright young lady, (as was her older sister). Maybe mom just lived vicariously through her youngest's achievements, or maybe she felt SN needed extra encouragement because of things "going on in her life". I wonder what those "things" were?
     
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  4. vmmking

    vmmking Well-Known Member

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    The family has stated on the official Facebook page that to their knowledge no one in the family babysat the Ellis kids or Crystal's kids, so that's probably where the OP saw that information.

    I just read up on this thread because Crystal's thread made me curious. I have been following Crystal's disappearance from the beginning, as well as the Ellis murder.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
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  5. vmmking

    vmmking Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of questions. Someone mentioned that Samantha's hair had been cut. Is this a rumor or something LE said? Also, do we know the total amount of life insurance on Kathy and Samantha?

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
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  6. rsd1200

    rsd1200 I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh

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    BBM
    I got that vibe too. I remember when this happened but it seemed to fade from the news relatively quickly. I spent half the night reading and reviewing, last night. I have a gut feeling that SN was Mom's pick of the litter and HN was Dad's. Dad's birthday wish post to HN, and congrats post, when HN got into MSU, if you'll note, has "baby girl". There's also mention of how she came into this world "kicking and screaming" and hasn't changed a bit. I felt the latter post was kind of joking between them. A post on mom's wall talked about dad teaching HN about setting the thermostat and saving money. Dad seemed patient, HN seemed to require patience (just a feeling).

    On 7/12/2013, 2:43 a.m. time stamp, Mom posted that, although dad answered [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]questions that afternoon and had occasionally interacted with visitors, through laughter, smiles or speech, she realized that his body was tired, but his spirit was fighting to stay. She posted that she may have to make a difficult decision in the morning, and while she may not like, it is what her husband wants. BP meds, fluids, and antibiotics were all that were keeping him alive, she was told. She states that she doesn't[/FONT] "want to say goodbye, but I truly don't want him to be in any more pain or to watch him struggling to breath so I'm preparing myself to do just that".

    7/12/2013, at 11:58 a.m., mom posted that all meds were stopped. Dad (BN) was now receiving only O2, monitoring, and comfort meds. Dad's numbers dropped but BN was being BN, and had decided not to leave yet.

    7/12/2013 at 8:54 p.m. HN reached out to Lion and Lamb Ministries through a post on their FB page, HN posted her name and that she was BN's oldest daughter, and said, "I need help and support dealing with this whole situation".

    On the evening of July 13th, 2013, the girl's father died.

    Could HN have harbored ill will toward her mother for removing the meds? Some people call what mom did, "Allowing to Die", and see it as compassionate, others see it as "Causing Death", and find it immoral. I've not found a response to HN's request for help, from L&L Ministries. FWIW HN lists Wicca as her religious faith on her social media page (I don't mean this in a way that it's the reason I feel bad vibes. I mean it in a way that it's another area where she seems to have done a 360. Did she feel failed by the faith that she she was raised in, and seek out another?)

    I am not accusing her, but, it would be difficult for an 18 y/o to lose a parent, especially one who may have doted on them, had patience, and understood them. KN seemed to really push the girls
    academically. HN, got married shortly after the murders, and became a housewife. That's about as opposite as you can get from what appeared to be her mother's expectations for the girls. It seemed, again, that SN was living up to mom's expectations prior to the murders.

    Sorry for the long post but but I started digging and... here I am.
     
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  7. rsd1200

    rsd1200 I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh

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    I do not know about the life insurance. Idk what kind of work Dad did or what kind of bills were left over after he passed, but he seems like a guy (just from reading an enormous amount of FB posts) who would have things set up for his family. Mom would have likely had something through the school system and that can vary district to district.

    The home went up for auction. A family member said that the reward, which was originally $2,500 was raised $50k. HN's aunt said:
    http://www.wdrb.com/story/28858415/...victims-speaks-out-on-anniversary-of-killings

    According to realtor,com (they don't have that info on the pva unless you subscribe), the home sold for $69.5 in 2009 and either sold, or was valued at, $96.2 in 2014. There's photos of the property. Prior to the auction I did see it listed on a private site for sale by owner for $112k.

    https://www.realtor.com/realestatea...ld-Rd_Bardstown_KY_40004_M44403-70380#photo14

    Idk, I could be wrong, but I get a feeling that HN is not really into material possessions or wealth.
     
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  8. bflocket

    bflocket Well-Known Member

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    I'm having to use my phone to get on the net and I hate it and I'm not so good at it.

    There's apparently going to be something about the Btown murders on NBC (or MSNBC) sometime. It's going to have several parts. I don't know if that means a miniseries or a few episodes of Dateline or what... I saw something in the local paper (KY Standard) about it in the past couple weeks. Anyone that can do the internet better than I can from this phone can search for it. The paper's website doesn't let you see much unless you subscribe. But surely there's something about it from other sources if you can find it.
     
  9. vmmking

    vmmking Well-Known Member

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  10. ALansby

    ALansby Member

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    Hopefully new information will come to light soon and provide some justice for these two women.
     
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  11. karenky

    karenky Active Member

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    The Oxygen channel will be carrying The Disappearance of Crystal Rogers and also goes into the murders of Tommy Ballard, Jason Ellis and Kathy and Samantha Netherland. The series will start on Aug. 11th. Their intro looks interesting. I hope it helps solve the case.

    The Disappearance of Crystal Rogers Premieres August 11th
     
  12. karenky

    karenky Active Member

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    A second national cable broadcast to feature the Crystal Rogers case in August was just announced. This Sunday, August 5th, On the Case with Paula Zan will air an episode on the Bardstown woman's disappearance. It airs Sunday at 10 p.m. on Investigation Discovery channel. I am not certain how much they will deal with the other unsolved murders in Bardstown but I feel like they will bring them up.

     
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  13. kirkassoc

    kirkassoc Well-Known Member

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    I never watch tv anymore, but I hope someone will post links to these two broadcast programs. I have been following the Netherland murders ever since they happened. You can't follow those murders without running into the three other murders (Crystal, Jason and Crystal's dad). I've been through and in Bardstown many times. I think..."something wicked that way came!"

    I have to admit though, I will have to hold my nose to get through the Paula Zahn program :rolleyes:
     
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  14. bflocket

    bflocket Well-Known Member

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    I live right in the midst of this. The closest Bluegrass Parkway exit to me is where Ellis was killed and Crystal's in my HS yearbooks. Nothing exciting ever happened in Nelson County until all of these things started with Ellis' death. He was a cop that was going home for the night and he wasn't in his usual vehicle. He was in one with no cameras and stuff. Crystal disappeared and her shady boyfriend happened to be a cop.
    Whether it's true or not, I've heard that one of the Netherland girls babysat for Crystal. These crimes are more than likely connected. Not only to each other, but to local LE and "higher ups." Until somebody from outside of here gets involved, I doubt anyone around here has the balls to really get to the bottom of all of this.
     
  15. kirkassoc

    kirkassoc Well-Known Member

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    I think it would take someone like "Buford Pusser" to clean that rat nest out. I don't believe there's anyone brave enough to actually dig that deep and clean their clocks. I've read everything I could on all three cases, and I believe I read that Samantha never did actually babysit for the Ellis's. I read all their FB posts at the time, and I always wondered about Holly's boyfriend at the time (no names, and I believe she's married to someone else now, thank heaven). I don't think Holly had anything to do with anything, but that boyfriend was not exactly liked by the Mother, from what I read. I always wondered if he and one of his friends had something to do with this. JMO, MOO.

    I had formed an opinion about Jason too, at the time. But, I don't think anyone ever dug very deep there either. As far as Crystal, I think everyone knows what happened to her and her father, but whether or not anyone will ever go after them is another story for another year and another brave soul. All MOO. But, I think anyone who is familiar with these cases has probably formed opinions. Could be all wrong, but it will be interesting to see if anyone is brave enough to solve them. I sure hope so. And, I'm glad I don't live in that area.
     
  16. bflocket

    bflocket Well-Known Member

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    It's kind of boring around here compared to in bigger cities, but it's not some kind of pure crime-free wonderland. There's murders and stuff every once and a while. They usually involve drugs/money or relationship problems. A few people from a neighboring county killed some teenage boy in Bardstown not too long ago. That was over a tiny amount of weed. Basically young people doing really dumb things.

    The big ones you mentioned are different. What happened to Officer Ellis wasn't like a run of the mill "police involved shooting". He wasn't chasing a suspect. Someone was laying in wait while he was going home from his shift when he wasn't in his normal cruiser (which had cameras and stuff) 5 years ago and have yet to be identified or arrested. Crystal was dating someone connected to LE and just vanished. Then her dad got shot while everyone was wondering where she was.

    The Netherland's may not have even known Crystal, but I can't help but think there is a connection somehow. Somebody killed a school teacher and her teenage daughter on a fairly busy road at a time when a lot of people drove by. It's a little off of the road, but that's kind of brazen. We've had murders in these parts, but we don't have many "mysteries." Let alone so many all at once. Or mysteries that don't get solved after such a long time.

    The fact that nobody knows what happened (who did it) in any of these cases is what makes me thinks that they might be connected. It doesn't feel like there's a serial killer around here or just passing through. Whoever killed these people had some reason to do it and weren't satisfying some perverted urge. And they either have money, power or a magical vaccine to keep justice away.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  17. mom2chloe

    mom2chloe Active Member

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    My husband recently suggested that the Netherland murders may be a red herring in an attempt to make it look like all these murders were the work of a serial killer. They were the first in the series of all these murders but I don’t believe for a second that they were randomly targeted. We know Kathy was shot several times but I don’t believe we ever knew with what kind of gun. If it was a shotgun then there is another common denominator. These murders were brutal and seem more personal. Samantha’s was particularly brutal. I looked at Holly’s social media early on and although there were indications of a rift there was never anything I saw to indicate she was involved. I am uncertain of why the boyfriend was disliked by the family but I do recall she had some posts regarding some significant pain she was having which led me to wonder if whoever killed them was wanting narcotics. The father had recently passed away due to cancer so maybe someone was looking for leftover opioids. Maybe narcotics is related to all these murders. Samantha’s death was overkill and because they were both murdered around 8 pm I believe the murderer was someone they were acquainted with maybe even a police office. Hell, I’m still not convinced that the black Impala they were looking for in the grainy photo couldnt have been Crystal’s impala borrowed by Brooks or Nick. Wouldn’t a maroon Impala look dark enough to be considered black in a black and white photo?
    Incidentally it occurs to me that another common denominator in most of these murders involves a car. Ellis was not in his regular vehicle, Nick left a blanket with bodily fluids in the trunk of his cruiser, Crystal’s car found abandoned on the road, a mysterious Impala that they never located and the Houck’s grandmother’s car she owned when Crystal was murdered was sought out and investigated as well. Anyone know if that car was an Impala?
    I sure hope they tested the blanket in Nick’s trunk for touch DNA among other things.
     
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  18. kirkassoc

    kirkassoc Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they indicated Kathy was shot several times and Samantha. bludgeoned. You would think someone would have heard the shots and looked out a window, etc., as it was still broad daylight. These killers were surely risk takers. Usually, when you see risks like this, drugs are involved (in the perpetrator's mind). But, I thought the father had died around a year before this. Surely, any drugs he might have been taken were long gone. You would have to be somehow close to the family to know about the dad dying of cancer (if they were after pain killers, etc), and when.....wouldn't you think?
     
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  19. bflocket

    bflocket Well-Known Member

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    Somebody told me earlier (i.e. "likely rumor from a less than reputable source") that Mrs Netherland was the little Ellis boy's teacher. Even if that turns out to be true, I don't see how that would be a solid connection between the cases. If he did indeed go to a school in the Bardstown district, that would be a 20+ mile trip (one way) to school every morning and home in the afternoon. What would a little boy (Kindergarten-ish age) with Down's syndrome know about any "secrets" involving their policeman father's work? What would a little kid that age without Down's syndrome know about that kind of thing? And why would he have shared it with his teacher?

    There was a story in one of the latest KY Standards where the police state that "there is no connection between the Netherlands and the Rogers or Ellis cases." Are we supposed to believe that, since one of their rank are much-more-than-likely involved in both the Ellis and Rogers cases? Drugs are probably involved somehow, since I don't know why else a fellow cop would have had the reason to kill Jason (a K9/drug cop). If it wasn't another cop responsible, they had to have some kind of personal or LE tie to him since they knew his schedule and that he wouldn't have any cameras/etc with him that night.

    We're getting a new sheriff come the November elections. I don't remember who the choices will be since I didn't really like/dislike whoever we have to choose from. We'll have a new jailer, too. Somehow Dorcas (a good lady that is fair and knows what she's doing) got defeated. I think it was because some girl was somehow slipping meth through a hole in the side of the jail. Who would want to be conscious (much less on stimulants) when they're stuck in jail?
     
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  20. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

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    One of these victims was beaten and her throat slashed... very brutal. IMO it's rather difficult to believe the killer/s didn't leave at least one tidbit of identifying evidence behind. (Not even a person of interest??) It's been ages since evidence was reportedly sent to the crime lab. But, police (and retired KSP they brought in to help with this case and other unsolved cases) just stay clammed-up. No movement forward, no resolution, not any real updates on this case in particular. I fully realize most cases take a great deal of time and effort to solve, but... how many unsolved cases does it take to realize LE (state & local) could likely use an overhaul - but will that even happen??
     

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