Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2017/ New Search July

Discussion in 'Kyron Horman' started by matou, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    The police needed the proof re the murder for hire. Remember the botched attempt to get the proof.
     
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  2. Warwick7

    Warwick7 Well-Known Member

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  3. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    Because the evidence clearing the school of all negligence was never officially released to the public, it doesn't mean it is not in existence. The evidence has become part of an open, criminal investigation and will be with held for that reason.

    I believe Kaine's daughter currently attends that very school. To me, that speaks volumes.

    I believe Desiree--witnesses say they saw Kyron, TMH, and the baby all leaving the school together between 8:45 am and 8:55 am. As Desiree says: TMH and the baby made it home, why not Kyron?

    Kyron's teacher has an email from TMH, herself, explaining Kyron's absence.

    This all says to me that the school was properly investigated and cleared of any accountability.
     
  4. ReadySet

    ReadySet Well-Known Member

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    bbm
    We don't know for a fact any of what you mention.

     
  5. ReadySet

    ReadySet Well-Known Member

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    As far as being convicted in the court of public opinion, lucky for TH there isn't a jail of public opinion. As it is, she has been free for the past nine years.

    Kyron's dad knows the answers? I'm not sure what that means, but if he had stopped helping LE after three and a half weeks and given up his child to protect himself, I would think he was guilty too.
     
  6. ReadySet

    ReadySet Well-Known Member

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  7. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    TMH's time from 10:10 am until 11:49 am has never been accounted for.

    She offers an impossibly harried timeline beginning from leaving the school after the 8:45 am bell and arriving at the first Fred Meyer store unsuccessfully searching for "medicine" for her suddenly sick daughter; and continuing with stops at a Starbucks; a craft store; and a dry cleaners--ending at a second Fred Meyer (still searching for the unnamed medicine) where she flags down a mere acquaintance to show her the now iconic picture of Kyron with his science fair project.

    By then the time is 10:10 am, and she goes off the grid offering only that for the next 90 minutes she was driving around "back roads" trying to get the baby to sleep.

    She resurfaced at her gym at 11:39 am where she left the baby in the gym daycare and worked out, leaving for home at 12:40 pm.

    She has taken three polygraphs--she failed the first one; walked out on the second one; and failed the third. According to Kaine, the failures all begin with questions about where she last saw Kyron. And she told him that, herself.
     
  8. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully snipped. None of those emails have ever been released.

    If I'm incorrect, please post any that you have access to. I'll be pleased to be wrong.

    I've read the ones where she attempts to explain about driving the baby around in the truck, but none about the landscaper-for-hire plot or her hatred for Kyron.
     
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  9. Mutzman

    Mutzman Member

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    When did she "voluntarily give up her child"? She was first separated from her due to the restraining order in July- and I'll give it to you that her lawyers didn't immediately contest it- but every article since October 2010 (when she began petitioning for custody) shows that she’s pursued custody or reunification.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong though!
     
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  10. Mutzman

    Mutzman Member

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    A refresher of the timeline on the reporting regarding, “DeDe and Terri’s unaccounted time”. Context is everything.

    The first report of DeDe’s unaccounted time came on, 7/22- “Detectives learned she abruptly left from 11:30am-1pm.” Investigators put pressure on Terri Moulton Horman's friends, including DeDe Spicher - oregonlive.com

    The first report to allege that Terri and DeDe were accounted at the same time came from CBS and Bruce McCain on, 7/26- “ And part of that timeline is a 3 hours block of time where we’re not really sure what was happening. Between the time she dropped him off. And when she showed up at the gym. There’s also a 90 minute window that a friend of hers, DeDe, around that same time is being questioned.”


    The same day CBS reiterated that Terri had, “several hours that remain unexplained- she claimed she left Kyron at school at 8:45am, and that at 11:39 she went to the gym. In that 3 hour gap...”


    The evening of 7/26/10, during the premiere of Little Boy Lost, Desiree said that Terri couldn’t explain to them where she was for 2 hours.”



    And then there were many articles such as the one below that circulated the statement, “Investigators are still trying to determine Terri Horman’s and Spicher’s whereabouts during an overlapping period the day the boy vanished (8/9/10).” 8/9 is the same weekend that the flyers with the pictures and questions about DeDe and Terri circulated the loop around Germantown and Old Germantown Rd.
    Investigators question residents, scour neighborhood for Kyron Horman clues - oregonlive.com

    The very next day though, 8/10/10, Terri’s friend leaked an email exchange with her from 6/5/10.

    This is the first time we really “hear” from Terri about her timeline the day of the disappearance. She claimed to be at the gym at 11:20, and home by 12:45- if true, then she not only accounted for that time, but it “overlapped” with DeDe (11:30am-1pm) for only 15 minutes.
    New Terri Moulton Horman e-mails detail day of Kyron Horman's disappearance - oregonlive.com

    The very next day again, 8/11/10- and I don’t think coincidentally- investigators heavily adjusted DeDe’s time. “...Investigators NOW SAY DeDe disappeared at 10am. Originally we were told she disappeared way later than that...”
    Police flyer,Spicher questioned .

    On, 8/11/10, CBS took it even further- “she says she was on a gardening job, but her employers said they were unable to reach her for 4 hours, much longer than first reported.”
    Kyron's Stepmother Not Alone?

    So every other outlet went on to “adjust” when DeDe was “unaccounted for” as well, which is why you end up with the timeframe in the link you copied. But that was never the originally story per investigators, and I think it’s important to remember how the reporting on this topic has evolved.

    As I’ve expressed, I don’t think Terri took Kyron from school the morning of 6/4. With as much stuff that has been leaked by the community and investigators, I always thought if that really happened that it would have come out, and that MCSO would have yelled in from the mountain tops. However, I think they know she didn’t. Which is why the focus on DeDe was so intense for them and the family- because if they know Terri didn’t leave with Kyron, then she had to have had help from someone. And the easiest person for them to point to was DeDe.

    Maybe I’m just biased because the facet of true crime I love most are missing persons, and cases of wrongful convictions. So it’s easy for my to take a step back and think it’s a possibility that Kyron was taken by someone familiar to him from the school or community. And that when MCSO botched the first two weeks of the investigation by assuming he wandered away, instead of sitting down with every adult in Skyline who was there the morning of 6/4 and treating them as a suspect who needed to be cleared- Then they went after Terri and DeDe.

    I respect you all, and really enjoy these discussions:)
     
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  11. ReadySet

    ReadySet Well-Known Member

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    If TH and DS had truthfully answered all the questions instead of pleading the 5th, we would have some answers about their actions, instead of conjecture.

    Regarding TH attempt to reunify with her child, at one point the plan was put on hold because TH said having a psychological assessment done cost too much and the logistics were too difficult for her to follow through. Telling, IMO.

    Then, she moved to CA in 2016. I guess that would make the logistics for an assessment even more difficult.
    Terri Horman, stepmom of missing Kyron Horman, moved to California, state records show - oregonlive.com

    Would be interested if anyone has information that since 2016 she has worked the plan to reunify.
     
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  12. Mutzman

    Mutzman Member

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    They pleaded the 5th during the grand jury- per the advice of their counsel- after they told investigators everything they knew and abided by every search.

    I'd love to see your source!
     
  13. kay74

    kay74 Well-Known Member

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    Why did she not any questions and lawyered up?! She failed 3 polys. What was she on when this happened, antidepressants? Another account is she left him standing in the hallway instead of seeing him safe in the classroom. The schools doors were not locked either so who knows...…..
     
  14. Mutzman

    Mutzman Member

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    Pleading the 5th during the grand jury doesn't imply that she and DeDe didn't cooperate fully during the investigation- especially when both of their counsels are on the record talking about the extent to which they cooperated (I can dig up sources).

    So what if D and T told them everything they knew, but LE insisted they were lying, so then they were advised not to say anything else moving forward? I'm just curious why that is out of the realm of possibilities?
     
  15. Mutzman

    Mutzman Member

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    Pleading the 5th during the grand jury doesn't imply that she and DeDe didn't cooperate fully during the investigation- especially when both of their counsels are on the record talking about the extent to which they cooperated (I can dig up sources).

    So what if D and T told them everything they knew, but LE insisted they were lying, so then they were advised not to say anything else moving forward? I'm just curious why that is out of the realm of possibilities?
     
  16. raja

    raja Well-Known Member

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    We do not know if she really failed those polys, we do not have that info from LE. She is deaf in one ear and often lip reads when she can not hear. Any lawyer would tear that poly result to shreds if was ever submitted in court which of course it can not be. And she only took 2 full polys but left during the 3rd.
     
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  17. bykerladi

    bykerladi Well-Known Member

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    Actually you can ONLY plead the 5th when you might incriminate yourself in a crime, so it IS telling that they claimed the 5th. And, of course, refusing to answer questions by pleading the 5th is not cooperating in the investigation, by most people's standards. Granted, if I were their attorney I'd tell them to plead the 5th too, but lets not pretend that TH is an angel here.
     
  18. kay74

    kay74 Well-Known Member

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    I don't care what she said or didn't say, Kyron was on her watch and he "disappeared". That is not common by any means.
     
  19. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    TH failed polygraph tests. She wrote emails about how much she hated Kyron, before he disappeared.

    She gave up custody of her infant daughter. She has not seen her in years.

    The custody order states she would have nothing more than short visits twice per month, strictly supervised, but only if and when a psychologist deemed her daughter ready for such visits and only after she did parenting courses. She would never get anything more until and unless she underwent a psychological custody evaluation.

    She never did that because it would necessitate answering questions about Kyron and the murder plot.

    http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Horman-custody.pdf

    There is no evidence she ever saw her daughter again after Kaine initially got custody and she dropped her initial bid for contact in 2010. Not even after this subsequent order.

    She moved to CA in 2016.

    I'm a family law attorney and have discussed this extensively on this thread.

    She killed her step son.

    In all my years I've never seen anyone but hardcore drug addicts, severely mentally ill people, criminals or people who don't love their kids much, give up rights to their children.

    She appeared to adore her child and made her the focus before Kyron disappeared. She took a photo of her daughter with Kyron's schoolmates and posted that on Kyron's birthday. Child was center stage. Kyron wasn't pictured.

    She fought at first but dropped the fight to avoid answering questions that could incriminate her.

    In my experience no mother would willingly give up custody to avoid incrimination if they're innocent. Unless they weren't that involved to begin with.

    There are many reasons I believe she's guilty. That's the main one.

    No innocent parent would abandon their infant child for fear of incrimination. They'd do anything to be there for their baby.
     
  20. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully snipped by me. Kyron went missing on the 4th and by the 6th they were beginning interviews with everyone who was at the school that morning.

    It was on the 14th--only 10 days after Kyron's disappearance--that they publicly announced his disappearance had become a criminal investigation.

    Remember, by then:

    ♦Terri had been polygraphed 3 times
    →1st•6-7-10•Failed
    →2nd•6-10-10•Did not complete
    →3rd•6-20-10•Failed

    And Kaine and Desiree had also been polygraphed and passed.


    Here is a snipped quote from an article in the Oregonian dated June 6, 2010:

    Snipped: "Detectives will begin interviewing everyone who was at Skyline Elementary School when Kyron Horman disappeared as the search for the missing second-grader moves into its third day."
    Kyron Horman disappearance: Skyline school parents and students will be interviewed Sunday - oregonlive.com


    And here is a second snipped quote, also from the Oregonian, dated June 14, 2019:

    Snipped: "The case -- which had centered on locating a missing child -- is now a criminal investigation with an offer of a $25,000 reward for tips that lead to finding him."
    Authorities continue search for person seen struggling in Columbia River


    I also believe that DDS first drew attention to herself by moving into the Horman home with TMH on June 30, 2010.
     
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