Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022 - #2

Nathan Vasquez takes office on January 1, 2025. Making a statement about the lack of evidence and putting this case before another Grand Jury being unlikely, seems premature - JMO.

What does seem likely- we'll all be here to discuss, when/if it happens :)
 
TERRI was seen leaving the school with Kyron and the baby by people who knew them. There was no "unknown predator". The predator was,in fact, very well known by those who saw her. Terri is a narcissist and she loves attention. She was well known at Kyron's school for a variety of reasons.
She couldn't get hired as a teacher because she had a DUI with child endangerment conviction. She was driving drunk with her son James in the car when he was about 11-12, and was arrested. That's why Terri was so ugly about Kyron's teacher and tried to blame that poor woman for not knowing that Kyron was missing. Terri tried to set the teacher up with that fake Dr's appointment. She was jealous and thought she'd be a better teacher.
 
Absolutely. Like TP who saw and talked to Kyron after Terri left the school, and told this on the record to the media. And TK who saw Kyron in the gym, without Terri but with other friends. Or the unnamed student who saw Kyron by the south entrance at 9, when Terri was at Fred Meyer, far away.



The new DA better get some evidence then, and see about getting a court order for a new Grand Jury. Either is unlikely.
He will have plenty of evidence already. He probably won't have a body.
 
Absolutely. Like TP who saw and talked to Kyron after Terri left the school, and told this on the record to the media. And TK who saw Kyron in the gym, without Terri but with other friends. Or the unnamed student who saw Kyron by the south entrance at 9, when Terri was at Fred Meyer, far away.



The new DA better get some evidence then, and see about getting a court order for a new Grand Jury. Either is unlikely.
Those people had their days mixed up, and all that has been debunked for years. Years. It was all investigated thoroughly.
None of it took place on the day Kyron went missing. None of that is factual. None of it.
 
Nathan Vasquez takes office on January 1, 2025. Making a statement about the lack of evidence and putting this case before another Grand Jury being unlikely, seems premature - JMO.

What does seem likely- we'll all be here to discuss, when/if it happens :)
I look forward to this going to trial, so all the evidence has to be released. In my opinion, that will result in Terri being acquitted. Hopefully, in my opinion, we can move on to finding out who really took Kyron.
 
Nathan Vasquez takes office on January 1, 2025. Making a statement about the lack of evidence and putting this case before another Grand Jury being unlikely, seems premature - JMO.

When three different DAs in a row don't prosecute for a combined total of fourteen years, I don't think it's premature to say the fourth one won't either.

TERRI was seen leaving the school with Kyron and the baby by people who knew them.

Yet none of that has come from the supposed witnesses themselves. Nor from law enforcement, nor even from media sources. It all goes back to Desiree's post-2015 claims which have never been substantiated. In fact, the witness she names, CL, was already inside the school - he and his mother made interviews in 2010 about CL seeing Kyron inside the classroom. Yet after the bell rang, CL was suddenly in the parking lot so he could see Terri and Kyron leave?

He will have plenty of evidence already. He probably won't have a body.

If they had plenty of evidence, none of the earlier three DAs would have needed a body to prosecute.

Those people had their days mixed up, and all that has been debunked for years. Years. It was all investigated thoroughly.
None of it took place on the day Kyron went missing. None of that is factual. None of it.

So what is the source for TP and TK having their days mixed up? Since you say it has been debunked. Because I have not seen any source make this claim, only forum speculation. It also falls flat on its face when you realize both TP and TK specifically mention the sightings happening during the science fair. The science fair that happened on June 4th, and June 4th alone. The details they provide don't fit any other day.
 
I look forward to this going to trial, so all the evidence has to be released. In my opinion, that will result in Terri being acquitted. Hopefully, in my opinion, we can move on to finding out who really took Kyron.
There will be disappointment then. If it goes to trial she will be convicted. There is no one else. Terri and DeDe are guilty of killing Kyron and disposing of his body. LE knows this because that's where the evidence led them. There's not one shred of evidence supporting anything else.
 
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When three different DAs in a row don't prosecute for a combined total of fourteen years, I don't think it's premature to say the fourth one won't either.



Yet none of that has come from the supposed witnesses themselves. Nor from law enforcement, nor even from media sources. It all goes back to Desiree's post-2015 claims which have never been substantiated. In fact, the witness she names, CL, was already inside the school - he and his mother made interviews in 2010 about CL seeing Kyron inside the classroom. Yet after the bell rang, CL was suddenly in the parking lot so he could see Terri and Kyron leave?



If they had plenty of evidence, none of the earlier three DAs would have needed a body to prosecute.



So what is the source for TP and TK having their days mixed up? Since you say it has been debunked. Because I have not seen any source make this claim, only forum speculation. It also falls flat on its face when you realize both TP and TK specifically mention the sightings happening during the science fair. The science fair that happened on June 4th, and June 4th alone. The details they provide don't fit any other day.
The source is LE. And that's really old stuff that was known to be untrue very early on in the case. The child also remembered interacting with someone who wasn't even at the school on the day Kyron went missing.
Kyron's previous bus driver, who knew him well, and knew Terri also,saw Kyron leave that Friday with Terri and the baby. Some other people saw the same thing. This is a fact.
Kyron was not at the gym. Terri came in with only the baby, who obviously wasn't that sick after all, and left her in the child care area. Kyron was NOT with Terri that day. No one else in the gym saw Kyron there THAT DAY. But Terri made sure she was seen. She didn't wotk out. She just oddly talked to someone long enough to create her alibi. That was the only reason she went to the gym.
 
There will be disappointment then. If it goes to trial she will be convicted. There is no one else. Terri and DeDe are guilty of killing Kyron and disposing of his body. LE knows this.

The way I see it there are three possible outcomes, in ascending order of likelihood:

The pessimistic outcome: the case gets dragged to trial, creates a huge media circus, Terri is acquitted, there is an uproar, no one changes their minds.

The optimistic outcome: the photo ops and vague commitments from the new DA lead to a change in direction from the investigation, and at the very least a more realistic culprit is proposed - best case, identified and prosecuted.

The realistic outcome: nothing. Vasquez will state that he's looking into it, he and the MCSO will make non-committal statements every anniversary, at some point the Facebook communities will begin to criticize him like they did with Schmidt. Nothing changes, nothing ever will. Turning, turning, turning, turning, turning through the years.
 
The way I see it there are three possible outcomes, in ascending order of likelihood:

The pessimistic outcome: the case gets dragged to trial, creates a huge media circus, Terri is acquitted, there is an uproar, no one changes their minds.

The optimistic outcome: the photo ops and vague commitments from the new DA lead to a change in direction from the investigation, and at the very least a more realistic culprit is proposed - best case, identified and prosecuted.
Terri
The realistic outcome: nothing. Vasquez will state that he's looking into it, he and the MCSO will make non-committal statements every anniversary, at some point the Facebook communities will begin to criticize him like they did with Schmidt. Nothing changes, nothing ever will. Turning, turning, turning, turning, turning through the years.
Terri is the most realistic culprit. There is physical and circumstantial evidence against her, but not anyone else besides her accomplice DeDe. Young children are killed by someone in their family.or someone close to their family in the vast majority of cases. This is why LE does a parallel investigation when a child goes missing. They do not rule out a stranger and they investigate both possibilities. They do not zero in on anyone, but they do follow where the evidence leads them. Kyron's parents have said that was done in this case. They know that a thorough and professional investigation was conducted. They know Terri did something to Kyron.
There's no mystery here.
This is not a word game.
A sweet little boy was murdered by this woman who made his life very difficult. Terri was abusing Kyron well before the murder, and he was showing signs of severe distress. He was the recipient of her anger. She wanted Kyron gone, and she eventually made that happen. The red flags were there but Kaine did not see them, unfortunately. He became aware that Terri has a drinking problem but he didn't understand that she's also a sociopath.
 
The source is LE.

LE has said TP and TK got their days mixed up? I haven't seen that. Where can I read about it?

And that's really old stuff that was known to be untrue very early on in the case. The child also remembered interacting with someone who wasn't even at the school on the day Kyron went missing.

Who was this someone who wasn't at the school that morning (I'm assuming you're referring to TP's statement)?

Kyron's previous bus driver, who knew him well, and knew Terri also,saw Kyron leave that Friday with Terri and the baby. Some other people saw the same thing. This is a fact.

No, it is a fact that Desiree, starting in 2015, makes that claim. No one else, not the witnesses, not LE, not media sources, has ever supported or substantiated that claim.

Kyron was not at the gym. Terri came in with only the baby, who obviously wasn't that sick after all,

Andrea L, the witness who spoke with Terri at the second Fred Meyer, said the baby wasn't feeling well. Now, some medicine and a relaxing car ride later, the baby might well have been fine enough to be in the gym's daycare for an hour.

and left her in the child care area. Kyron was NOT with Terri that day. No one else in the gym saw Kyron there THAT DAY.

Yes, of course. She left him in the school, and wasn't seen with him anywhere else.

But Terri made sure she was seen. She didn't wotk out. She just oddly talked to someone long enough to create her alibi. That was the only reason she went to the gym.

That she didn't work out is only sourced to Desiree who gave a wrong time for when Terri signed in at the gym. The gym gave the time 11:39, but Desiree said it was 12:20 (giving Terri only 22 minutes in the gym, unlike the 61-63 she actually had).
 
Terri is the most realistic culprit. There is physical and circumstantial evidence against her, but not anyone else besides her accomplice DeDe.

If there was physical evidence, Terri would have been arrested long ago.

Young children are killed by someone in their family.or someone close to their family in the vast majority of cases.

Which is an excellent explanation for why police get tunnel vision in those cases were they weren't.

This is why LE does a parallel investigation when a child goes missing. They do not rule out a stranger and they investigate both possibilities. They do not zero in on anyone, but they do follow where the evidence leads them. Kyron's parents have said that was done in this case. They know that a thorough and professional investigation was conducted. They know Terri did something to Kyron.

And yet there are countless examples of LE being absolutely certain, to the point where they take cases to trial and even get convictions, and then turn out to be wrong. The Innocence Project has an extensive list of exonerations. And in many of these cases LE and prosecutors still insist they were right.

My point is, LE "knowing" who did it and said person actually having done it? Two very different things.
 
IMO MOO

Perhaps the detectives and law enforcement do not want the technology and technologic advancements known to the general public.

Kyron's mom knows what is going on. Families are asked to hold-back information, theories, investigation procedures. There are reasons for that.

My advice is to follow what knowledge and wisdom Kyron's mom and step-dad express.
They are spot-on.

Try watching accused killer Terri's interviews with the volume down. There is no technology there, but one can see the fake sincerity and poor acting going on.

The D.A.'s should prosecute. Feds take over.
The public and Justice-4-Kyron will have to wait, for a new District Attorney. That's sad. And wrong. Murderers walking free.

/ IMO MOO
100% agree with your POV. DA's won't prosecute a case unless they know they can win it. That is a fact. For every thing we know about this case, there are a dozen things we don't. Terry is only free because they can't link her to Kyron's kidnapping and (death) beyond a reasonable doubt. But one thing I know for sure, is these cases at some point come to light. I don't think Terry or DeDe killed Kyron, but I do think they passed him off to someone else. One day someone in that circle will talk, or get caught doing something else and want a deal. There is no honor among thieves. There is no body, no evidence of where he went that day, or who took him. But someone knows, and it will come out. We may be all dead, but it will come out. Thank you all for keeping his story alive.
 
Desiree Young, Kyron's Mom - a candidly truthful, painfully raw - interview with Doug Bishop.
- May 12, 2024


There are some muddled timelines in this. So the evidence she has spoken of the last couple of years (that the DA wouldn't act on) was the burner phones that Dede "led them to" in 2010. Apparently there was incriminating evidence on the phones (though only circumstantial?) but they couldn't charge Dede because she had immunity? Ignoring the fact that Terri didn't have immunity, Dede didn't get immunity until 2013, so how did that work?

Then there's the DA getting ready to charge her after the landscaper "but then Casey Anthony happened". What? The DA took the case to a Grand Jury in July 2010, then in September 2010 it suspended itself and by October the case was stalled with no new movement. If there was a decision not to prosecute, it was made in the fall of 2010. The Casey Anthony verdict came in the summer of 2011. The timeline just doesn't add up.
 
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There are some muddled timelines in this. So the evidence she has spoken of the last couple of years (that the DA wouldn't act on) was the burner phones that Dede "led them to" 2910. Apparently there was incriminating evidence on the phones (though only circumstantial?) but they couldn't charge Dede because she had immunity? Ignoring the fact that Terri didn't have immunity, Dede didn't get immunity until 2013, so how did that work?

Then there's the DA getting ready to charge her after the landscaper "but then Casey Anthony happened". What? The DA took the case to a Grand Jury in July 2010, then in September 2010 it suspended itself and by October the case was stalled with no new movement. If there was a decision not to prosecute, it was made in the fall of 2910. The Casey Anthony verdict came in the summer of 2011. The timeline just doesn't add up.
What is "2910?" Do you mean 2010?
 
Here's the thing... families going thru this type of living-a-nightmare, don't process as most people do on a regular timeline/experience. They are freaked-out, flipped-out, sleep deprived, food repulsed and pulled into circling the 9th circle of hell ! They call it circling the drain. Love and good people help pull them back.
Just the fact that Kyron's true parents, family, teachers, neighbors and friends can even function at all, is a (difficult) miracle.

Criticism and Picking apart an exact chronological piece of this case, is easy sleezy.

Common sense and standing facts have to be believed. ie: Constantly looking out the window and/or, for little Kyron is what innocent people do.

He was just A little boy ! A soul-sick adult picks actions to harm / disappear a little boy!! Child.

The step-witch knew. That's why the faux alibi. That's why the kinky-weirdos friendship. Thats why the innumerable: can not be proved, excuses. A litany of character issues... the prison shrinks will have a field day with her.

Our culture is too accustomed to TV case solving. This is the crisis and timeline of real life.

Justice Comes. Step by careful step. Drip by drip, the water fills the kettle. Arrests will come. For more than one. Watch and see.

Shiny bracelets. Snap.Snap.

MOO OMO JMO
 
I don't believe Terri committed the perfect murder. I think there is a puzzle piece that was maybe missed or overlooked. They just need that one revelation in this case to pull it all together. She is very lucky so far...very lucky
because they have her really..it's just finding that tipping point...like finding someone she confessed to. I think there's someone out there who knows . mOO
 
Here's the thing... families going thru this type of living-a-nightmare, don't process as most people do on a regular timeline/experience. They are freaked-out, flipped-out, sleep deprived, food repulsed and pulled into circling the 9th circle of hell ! They call it circling the drain. Love and good people help pull them back.
Just the fact that Kyron's true parents, family, teachers, neighbors and friends can even function at all, is a (difficult) miracle.

Criticism and Picking apart an exact chronological piece of this case, is easy sleezy.

But this isn't picking apart small details that don't matter. This is Desiree reversing cause and effect by years.

"And the DA's office, they believed at the time that they could get her to flip on Terri. Several weeks later. they made an agreement with Dede Spicher for immunity. Here's the problem with that: as you're investigating, you're getting evidence, you're obtaining new information, new interviews, all the things, right? And now today, what we can say is, there is physical evidence that is involving her. From what I understand, Dede Spicher said Terri was using throwaway phones, and had loaded it with minutes and was using that to communicate with people. They were able to acquire the phones, Dede took them where they dumped them. I don't know when the phones were dumped, they got access to them a couple of weeks after Kyron went missing. There's communication connected to photos that were stored on the phone, that is the physical evidence in the case. It's all things that imply guilt, it's all things showing conceal and lie and deceit. All of it is circumstancial, which is unfortunate. And then she proceeds to plead the fifth. She doesn't want people to know what she is. And now that she has an immunity deal, we can never prosecute her. We can't ever fix that."

Again, Dede got her immunity deal in 2013, not 2010 like Desiree claims here. That completely invalidates Desiree's whole sequence of events here. Dede gets immunity, Dede leads them to evidence implicating both her and Terri, oops, can't charge her, she's got immunity.

{After the MFH plot was "revealed"] "You could see it in the team, they were ready to go in and arrest her, they were, and when Casey Anthony happened everything stalled. They backed up."

The landscaper's existence was made public in late June 2010, the Casey Anthony verdict was in the summer of 2011. What was it that kept them from going in and arresting her for over a year, if Casey Anthony was the cause of future dithering?

Another thing, looking at the video, she repeats the disproven idea that Terri wouldn't be able to see Kyron from the "east end staircase" because she would see a wall. This has been debunked for more than a decade now. But more alarmingly, Desiree still appears to believe that there is such a thing as the "east end staircase". The east end of the hallway is the exit to the buses, not the staircase. There is the main staircase by the offices (leading to the main entrance), then just to the east of that, the gym staircase, followed by the bus exit. The east end was marked as the staircase where Terri ascended back on Kaine and Desiree's first appearance on Dr Phil. Whether they provided the info to Dr Phil, or Dr Phil gave the wrong info and Desiree internalized it (either is plausible), it's still wrong, yet Desiree appears to believe it a decade later.

"It's our understanding, through information I've had turned over to me during searches, that she was picked up by Terri." - I think this quote is revealing, though. This information isn't coming from law enforcement, it's most likely coming from fellow searchers who have heard or read things online passing it on to Desiree.

You may think it's sleazy to investigate the facts of the case, but the way I see it is bad information is bad information. Taking it on faith solely because of who says it, even when it blatantly contradicts other sources, closer to the time and place, does nothing to find Kyron. Quite the opposite.

Common sense and standing facts have to be believed. ie: Constantly looking out the window and/or, for little Kyron is what innocent people do.

He was just A little boy ! A soul-sick adult picks actions to harm / disappear a little boy!! Child.

The step-witch knew. That's why the faux alibi.

She had an alibi between 8:45 and 10, which is the time Kyron vanished.

That's why the kinky-weirdos friendship.

Salacious gossip.

Thats why the innumerable: can not be proved, excuses.

Except, whenever something can be proved, it ends up being proved. She says she was at two Fred Meyers, here are receipts and witnesses and CCTV to confirm. She says she drove on highway 30, here's a ping to confirm. She says she went to the gym, here's evidence from the gym itself to confirm. Are we going to condemn her because every rural road doesn't have a camera every quarter mile?

A litany of character issues... the prison shrinks will have a field day with her.

They will never get the chance.

Our culture is too accustomed to TV case solving. This is the crisis and timeline of real life.

There's TV case solving, and there's fourteen years of essentially zero movement on the case.

Justice Comes. Step by careful step. Drip by drip, the water fills the kettle. Arrests will come. For more than one. Watch and see.

Shiny bracelets. Snap.Snap.

MOO OMO JMO

Nah. She won't be charged by Vasquez anymore than she was charged by Schmidt or his predecessors. The evidence just isn't there.
 

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