Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022

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OddOneOut

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Many parents have been in the same situation, and they have been heavily suspected, even more so than Terri, and they have not given up and stopped talking. They have done the hard work, they have kept the faith and no matter how devastated and panicked they were, they knew that since they knew their child better than anyone, they HAD TO KEEP TALKING TO LE. Because what if, after three and a half weeks, they REMEMBERED SOMETHING that might be helpful to LE, or to other searchers, or to the public, something helpful to find their child?

Innocent parents can't see the future. They do not know for a fact that they will remain a suspect forever. They work to prove their innocence, so that LE can move on from them. They want the perp caught, so that their child can be found. They don't just give up!

Unless they're guilty.
It is not uncommon for parents to get a lawyer when they feel police suspect them. Innocent parents have ended up convicted and in prison.
 

Truth Prevails

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Unless they're guilty.
Exactly.

Law enforcement supposedly did all these "bad" things to this woman but they never even called her a suspect or a person of interest.

They have probable cause but they didn't make an arrest.

They have an email from her to Kyron's teacher saying she would take Kyron to a doctor's appointment on June 4th but they didn't make an arrest.

They have eyewitnesses who saw her walking through the south side parking lot of Skyline School with Kyron at 8:55 am but they didn't make an arrest.

They have two failed polygraphs and another "incomplete" polygraph because she walked out on it but they didn't make an arrest.

They have her weak alibi with at least 90 minutes unaccounted for and reliable sources such as Desiree suggest that the unaccounted time could be as high as 2 hours and 10 minutes but they didn't make an arrest.

They know she researched logging roads but they didn't make an arrest.

They know her bank records don't line up with where she said she was but they didn't make an arrest.

From the Appeal Decision document we looked at the other day, we know that the state was looking at evidence for "future dangerousness" and other evidence that would be relevant to either a guilt or punishment phase of a criminal case but they didn't make an arrest.

They put her picture on flyers because they knew she wasn't telling the truth. They needed witnesses to come forward.

They tapped her phone because they knew her behavior was evasive--and look how it turned out. She was using the same modus operandi that she used in other murder-for-hire plots.

She's been treated with kid gloves, in my opinion.

And where is Kyron? 7-year-old Kyron Richard Horman. Where is he?

If you have a minute maybe you could watch the video at the link below. It's hard to get through but at about 3:55 minutes in:

(The unofficial short transcript was done by me):
Terri: One of the questions was "was Kyron in the truck with you"? Well, there is a fail right there. Because he was in the truck with me on the way to school but not when we were leaving. So that one I can't even get right. And that was the one that I supposedly failed. ... But the one that was failed was whether or not he was in the truck with me.

I don't know about anyone else, but I find it impossible to believe that the polygraph examiner would not have made it clear which situation he was asking about: the trip to school or the trip from school.

In light of the recent discussion a few pages back on the thread, hearing her say that made chills run up and down my spine.

I'm waiting for the long overdue knock on her door. Long, long, long overdue. Justice for Kyron!
 
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Truth Prevails

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Perhaps this is pertinent to the discussion:

Quote: The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office said Terri Horman has an open invitation to speak with investigators.

Horman’s lawyer, Stephen Houze, has requested his client have no contact with law enforcement without Houze’s authorization and Horman’s consent.
 

ReadySet

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It is not uncommon for parents to get a lawyer when they feel police suspect them. Innocent parents have ended up convicted and in prison.
Please cite the cases where the parents of a missing child got a lawyer and it turned out they were innocent.

Having a missing child is a very specific and extreme kind of case that imo cannot be compared to other crimes someone may be suspected of.
 
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ReadySet

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How many of them were the subject of a failed police sting, based on a bogus murder-for-hire plot, that tore their family apart? How many of them had their faces plastered on police posters, and had constant police leaks through family members?

It's not like Terri Horman can't talk to the police, she just requires them to go through her lawyer and have him be present. According to her (the dr Phil interview, I believe) the police have never requested an interview since she got her lawyer. I've never seen the police claim otherwise.
What happened to Terri pales in comparison to what happened to Kyron
 

OddOneOut

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We know that he disappeared and has not seen his loved ones in ten years; or that he is laying under the dirt somewhere in a lonely place; we know that he met with an unhappy and possibly violent end. Do.you think he has been growing up happily somewhere?
The summer Kyron was 17 a 17-year-old boy went missing here in Ohio. When his picture popped up, my first thought was Kyron had escaped. He looked so much like Kyron it was shocking. The boy was only missing a couple of days. I don't have a link because media reports on missing juveniles are usually removed so per TOS it has to be listed as rumor. My point is that no one KNOWS what happened to Kyron. We can only speculate what is most probable. And, NO I don't "think he has been growing up happily somewhere."
 

Truth Prevails

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Thanks for saying that better than me.
And thank you for saying what you said.

If making comparative statements beginning with "how many were; how many had" are not seen as suggesting victimization, I don't know what would be.

Kyron disappeared. It's not his fault the investigation into his disappearance has remained focused on his stepmother.

It's her fault. She needs to clear herself if she can. And some, like me, believe she would if she could. So she can't, in my opinion. And why might that be?

Let's look at a few of the things that she was involved in after Kyron's disappearance.

First, law enforcement revealed to Kaine that she had tried to hire someone to kill him. And they weren't whispering unsubstantiated lies into his ears. This was law enforcement and they showed him evidence to back up their statements. They were probably legally obligated to do so as they had reason to believe that Kaine's life was in danger. Kaine reacted sensibly by taking his 18-month-old daughter and removing himself from her presence; obtaining a restraining order; and filing for divorce. It was her own actions that caused the chain of events--she was not a victim.

I think Kaine was both brave and afraid. Brave for Kyron's sake but afraid for his own life. It wasn't long after that reports began to filter through various media outlets that Kaine was practicing his shooting skills. Maybe he was letting off steam or maybe he wanted to be prepared if someone jumped out of the bushes after him:

Snipped quote: "He also may have found ways of blowing off steam—neighbors report they've heard gunfire coming from the property for hours on end."

Second, years later (2016) she moved to another state and took up residence with a new man. He, too, ended up afraid for his life:

Snipped quote: "The Sacramento man, who describes himself as Moulton’s domestic partner, filed for a temporary restraining order against her on November 28.

“She was trying to put a knife – a kitchen knife to my face and then she was telling me that if I talked to law enforcement that something is going to happen to me or my family,” explained Cristobal.
...
Cristobal said Moulton explained she was the victim of corrupt police in Oregon.

Cristobal said he has become suspicious of Moulton because of her behavior.

“She has two phones. One that she calls a burner phone and one that she normally uses for her personal stuff,” said Cristobal."


After being the focus of the investigation into the disappearance of her 7-year-old stepson, she moved away and became involved in that situation. Her own actions caused the problem. She is not a victim.

In my opinion, this is a dangerous woman. A perpetrator.

Kyron's 20th birthday is coming up on September 9th. Yes, all we know is that he disappeared 12 years ago. Vanished without a trace. Really? Do children vanish? Do human beings vanish? Justice for Kyron!

Following is a quote from Desiree Young, Kyron's mother. It is from page 43 of the book: "Boy Missing: The Search for Kyron Horman", by Rebecca Morris. It is something Desiree asked of Kaine on the evening of June 4th, 2010. Standing in her little boy's bedroom. Touching things he had recently touched. Breathing in his scent. She asked. (Click on the blurred section below if you want to read it).

"This doesn't happen to random children," she told him. "Why Kyron? Why did this come to your front door? What is going on in this house? This happened on your watch."
 
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FergusMcDuck

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And thank you for saying what you said.

If making comparative statements beginning with "how many were; how many had" are not seen as suggesting victimization, I don't know what would be.
I guess you misunderstood. It wasn't suggesting "victimization", I was suggesting that Terri's situation was rather different than that of those who didn't get a lawyer (not that it would be bad if any of them had).

I'm less interested in "victimization" comparisons except to say that no matter what terrible thing happened to Kyron, it doesn't mean that everything is justified or anything is excusable by the investigators - especially when the sum total of their efforts is absolutely nothing over twelve years. Also that it doesn't give civilians carte blanche to hound and harass a suspect just because they've convinced themselves she did it.

Especially when we have so many cases like Brittanee Drexel, Faith Hedgepeth, Jacob Wetterling, etc, where LE and/or the public were so very wrong for so very long.
Kyron disappeared. It's not his fault the investigation into his disappearance has remained focused on his stepmother.

It's her fault.
It's only her fault if you assume she's guilty. Otherwise it's on LE. In the Kercher case, LE fell over themselves to blame their mistakes on Amanda Knox and her behaviour - you'd think they had no agency whatsoever. But they made their judgements on behaviour, not evidence, and they alone are responsible for that.
First, law enforcement revealed to Kaine that she had tried to hire someone to kill him. And they weren't whispering unsubstantiated lies into his ears. This was law enforcement and they showed him evidence to back up their statements.
Evidence that couldn't get them an indictment - for a completely different crime, so there would be no danger to Kyron's case if they charged her. In fact, that would probably have been the best way to pressure her - if they had the evidence, that is. Seems like a rather weak case to me.
 

Truth Prevails

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It's only her fault if you assume she's guilty. Otherwise it's on LE.
Investigators have extended an open invitation to Terri. She can go in and speak to them any time she pleases. Her attorney said there will be no contact with law enforcement unless he authorizes it and she agrees. In that order. (A link for this exists in comment #723 of this page (#37).

Why won't he authorize an interview where he accompanies her and tidies this all up in her favor? It shouldn't be too difficult, right? If there is no evidence or only weak evidence, what would the problem be?

Seems like a rather weak case to me.
Some of the same evidence seemed to make a huge difference in Kaine's divorce settlement.

He basically got everything, which is quite unusual. He had to pay her a relatively small sum, but still, I'd bet he wasn't too disappointed.

Then there was the Judgement Re Custody and Parenting Time. And that had to be absolutely devasting for her. She never saw her adored daughter again; never got to hold her; never got to watch her grow. In spite of a judgment including and outlining the provisions for her to be able to do so.

She never even attempted the necessary steps. Why? I'm asking. Could it have been because the very first step involved addressing "Kyron's status"? Couldn't her high-powered attorney have advised her on how to handle that?

If the "case" is so weak.

Dissolution of Marriage; Money Award

Stipulated Supplemental Judgment Re Custody and Parenting Time
 

CHICANA

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Investigators have extended an open invitation to Terri. She can go in and speak to them any time she pleases. Her attorney said there will be no contact with law enforcement unless he authorizes it and she agrees. In that order. (A link for this exists in comment #723 of this page (#37).

Why won't he authorize an interview where he accompanies her and tidies this all up in her favor? It shouldn't be too difficult, right? If there is no evidence or only weak evidence, what would the problem be?


Some of the same evidence seemed to make a huge difference in Kaine's divorce settlement.

He basically got everything, which is quite unusual. He had to pay her a relatively small sum, but still, I'd bet he wasn't too disappointed.

Then there was the Judgement Re Custody and Parenting Time. And that had to be absolutely devasting for her. She never saw her adored daughter again; never got to hold her; never got to watch her grow. In spite of a judgment including and outlining the provisions for her to be able to do so.

She never even attempted the necessary steps. Why? I'm asking. Could it have been because the very first step involved addressing "Kyron's status"? Couldn't her high-powered attorney have advised her on how to handle that?

If the "case" is so weak.

Dissolution of Marriage; Money Award

Stipulated Supplemental Judgment Re Custody and Parenting Time
Family court is way different.
 

CHICANA

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Doesn't make the fact that there is evidence against her any less real. It is true that the standard for criminal court is much higher, but it doesn't take away from the fact that LE does have very real evidence against her.
I agree. I'm not up to date on Kyron's case, do you know why they didn't file charges for conspiring to kill Kaine ?
 

FergusMcDuck

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Investigators have extended an open invitation to Terri. She can go in and speak to them any time she pleases. Her attorney said there will be no contact with law enforcement unless he authorizes it and she agrees. In that order. (A link for this exists in comment #723 of this page (#37).

Why won't he authorize an interview where he accompanies her and tidies this all up in her favor? It shouldn't be too difficult, right? If there is no evidence or only weak evidence, what would the problem be?
An open invitation? See, that's the problem. Terri isn't the one investigating the case, LE is - at least they're supposed to. If they have new questions to ask Terri, they can contact her lawyer and set up a meeting, but they haven't done that, have they?

What on earth is Terri supposed to do here? Go back and tell the same story for the twelfth time and trust that this time the police will believe her? She's not part of the investigation. She holds no inside information or secret knowledge. The MCSO made a mess of this, and it's not on Terri to clean it up, even if she could.

The MCSO should try doing a better job.
Some of the same evidence seemed to make a huge difference in Kaine's divorce settlement.
I don't see how it did, but it's honestly irrelevant. They didn't have any evidence that would bring an indictment. That means they didn't even have probable cause. That's what matters here. If they had anything other than the gardener's story, I don't see how that would be.
 

sketchyjen33

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If you use Google Street View and place yourself at the entrance to the southern parking lot of Skyline School, and face northwestward looking down Skyline Boulevard, I, at least, can see that "hidden patch" perfectly. Not even elevation helps, really, since Skyline Boulevard slopes downwards and the access road is more visible from the parking lot than right below it. This would also have occurred between 8:45 and 9:00, when dozens of parents would get in their cars and drive onto Skyline Boulevard. Everyone turning an immediate right would have a perfect view of the clandestine deed, and Terri would have no real way of seeing them in advance.

It would be an incredibly poor choice of place for a murder.

Ok...let me bounce something around for a minute.

What is the parking situation at the school? I know the parking lot is not big enough to accommodate all of the cars that were supposedly at the school for the science fair. Would there have been cars parked around the truck at some point? Is there a sign that says "No Parking" at such and such time or was it just understood that people could park in that area? I know at my kids' schools, cars usually parked in any available spot during school events. So, if we go off of that, did she park there initially and then cars began to park around her, which in turn would give her SOME cover but then also there's the chance of someone showing up to leave that might catch her in the act. Was this another "I can't park a truck" situation and she just picked an open area to leave plenty of room for her to get out? I honestly can't remember if there was a space of time where she left the project, took the kids back to the truck, and then moved it (if someone knows where that detail is, maybe they can point it out). Seems a little cumbersome to haul the baby back to the truck, lock her in her carseat, move the truck, and then take the kid back out and walk all the way back to the school. But also, since we don't know definitely that her truck was ever parked there...we have to take it with a grain of salt. But I do wonder about the other cars if that is indeed where she parked. Could that have given her JUST enough cover?

Definitely NOT an ideal place, especially since you have all the cover you could possibly need like 2 miles down the road.

Why would she need to do it right at that moment?
 
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