Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022

[OddOneOut]

It wasn't Kyron's teacher. It was his step-mother.

It depends on who you believe. The original comment said Terri said it was from Kyron's teacher. Whoever posted this went on to say they didn't believe it came from the teacher.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Regarding TP, he met Kyron in the upstairs hallway (since he specifies going downstairs after the encounter) as Kyron was going to see an exhibit.

This little guy is so cute, but his statements aren't credible, in my opinion. Plus he was sad, not sleeping and missing Kyron.

In the following linked quote, the time of the sighting is given as about 8:45 a.m. [Article is dated June 9, 2010].

Snipped quote: Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Tanner [], Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.' I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

As the search for Kyron enters its sixth day, Tanner said his friend's disappearance is all he can think about.

"I'm feeling really sad. For the last five days, I haven't gotten much sleep," he said. "I'm hoping that my best friend will come back."

Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back' - Portland News Story - KPTV Portland

PORTLAND, Ore. -- A classmate of Kyron Horman says he last saw his friend in the Skyline School hallway, where Kyron said he was headed to look at another student's science project. Wednesday, June 9, 2010.

web.archive.org

The video is here to confirm it's the same interview the above write-up is discussing.


Now, notice in the transcript below (and the 2nd linked video will confirm) that the reporter gives the time as 9:45 a.m. on June 4, 2010. One hour later.

Snipped Transcript:
Reporter: Eight year old Tanner remembers passing Kyron in the school hallway Friday morning. As the two passed each other on the way to see different science experiments.

Tanner: I went down the stairs and that was the last time I saw him. I never did see him after that.

Reporter: 45 minutes or so past nine in the morning [9:45 a.m. approximately] last Friday as the science fair ended, Tanner and Kyron’s class was regrouping.

In the linked quote below a time is not given. But the 9:45 am time given in the video is supported by Tanner's statement that the "substitute" "left". (Article is dated June 14, 2010].

Snipped quote: 8-year-old Tanner [], a desk mate of Kyron says, "I went downstairs, and that was the last time I saw him and I never seen him after that," Tanner told KOIN news. Tanner said, the class was regrouping and it was the substitute that noticed Kyron was missing.

"And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Mrs. Porter was like it's okay calm down, calm down he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I'm going to leave and she left, " says Tanner [].

Search for missing Kyron Horman is now a criminal case - National missing persons | Examiner.com

The search for missing 7-year old Portland boy, Kyron Horman ended today as rescue teams headed home. After 10 days they have not been able to uncover any sign

web.archive.org

And nowhere does Tanner say that he saw Terri leaving the school alone. It was Tanner's grandmother who said Tanner told her that. The difference is important, imo.

Snipped quote: Fuhrer said that Tanner told her that he had seen Kyron's mom leaving the school building and Kyron was not with her when she left.

Search for missing Kyron Horman is now a criminal case - National missing persons | Examiner.com

The search for missing 7-year old Portland boy, Kyron Horman ended today as rescue teams headed home. After 10 days they have not been able to uncover any sign

web.archive.org

 

[Truth Prevails]

Desiree said it sickened her when told by other mothers that the colored cards for classroom behavior didn't exist. I don't believe for a minute she is making up what she was told by other mothers.

Originally posted by me: (Comment 939, Page 47)

Snipped quote: At Christmas, Desiree was afraid that Terri’s obsessiveness with the color card system meant Kyron wouldn’t be allowed to visit or celebrate the holidays. She called Kaine’s house daily to talk to Kyron, trying to ease some of his stress. Desiree had Kyron write a letter to Santa, apologizing for his behavior.

But the code of conduct and the colored cards may have only existed in Terri’s playbook. Mothers of other children in Kyron’s class said it didn’t exist. When Desiree found out it was just a ploy of Terri’s, she was sickened. “The fact that I doubted Kyron’s honesty, that he thought I didn’t believe him, tore me up after he went missing,” Desiree said.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris

 

[FergusMcDuck]

This little guy is so cute, but his statements aren't credible, in my opinion. Plus he was sad, not sleeping and missing Kyron.

In the following linked quote, the time of the sighting is given as about 8:45 a.m. [Article is dated June 9, 2010].

Now, notice in the transcript below (and the 2nd linked video will confirm) that the reporter gives the time as 9:45 a.m. on June 4, 2010. One hour later.

Yes. Because he's describing two different events. That's what the articles, the transcripts and my write-up all say. 8:45 (ca) is the last time he saw Kyron, passing him in the hallway. 9:45 (ca) is when the class regroups after the tour and the chaperone notices and tells Mrs Porter that Kyron is missing.

Two different events. At no point is 9:45 given as the last time TP saw Kyron. So I don't see how this can go to his credibility.

And nowhere does Tanner say that he saw Terri leaving the school alone. It was Tanner's grandmother who said Tanner told her that. The difference is important, imo.

Sure, but even without that he's still saying he saw Kyron alone in the upstairs hallway, which doesn't match Kyron's earlier movements.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Yes. Because he's describing two different events.

There were two separate interviews, but the 8-year-old child is describing one memory--the last time he saw his friend. It's a poignant example of how all of us vocally share our memories and the different details we add or subtract in our various tellings--depending on what questions we are being asked. The actual time Tanner last saw Kyron is never confirmed. He probably couldn't give a time for it. He was only 8 years old.

In the second interview, (5-days later) the reporter has done better research and confirmed 9:45 a.m. as the time Kyron was first noticed as missing. (Kyron had left with Terri at 8:45 a.m). The parent-led groups were dispersing and class was about to begin.

The official roll call by Kyron's homeroom teacher was done at 10:00 a.m. Miss Porter was a step ahead of Terri. She checked her records and located the email from her explaining Kyron's absence. She then reported Kyron's absence to the school office as an excused absence. She was meticulous in her record keeping and did her job well.

All of the above is my opinion.

Snipped: The police also wanted to clear up the confusion about when attendance was taken. At 10 a.m. Kyron was marked absent by his teacher, Miss Porter. The school office was told it was an excused absence. That’s because Terri had sent the teacher an email days before saying she was taking him to a doctor’s appointment. ...

Later, Terri said it was all a mistake. It was the following Friday Kyron had a doctor’s appointment.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris

 

[FergusMcDuck]

There were two separate interviews, but the 8-year-old child is describing one memory--the last time he saw his friend. It's a poignant example of how all of us vocally share our memories and the different details we add or subtract in our various tellings--depending on what questions we are being asked. The actual time Tanner last saw Kyron is never mentioned. He probably couldn't give a time for it. He was only 8 years old.

No, he's describing two memories - one was the last time he saw his friend, the other was the first time someone noticed Kyron was missing. They involve different people (TP and Kyron in the former, TP, Mrs Porter and the unnamed chaperone in the latter), different locations (hallway in the former, classroom in the latter) and yes, different times (8:45 for the former, 9:45 for the latter). This is abundantly clear in all the interviews and articles.

In the second interview, (5-days later) the reporter has done better research and confirmed 9:45 a.m. as the time Kyron was first noticed as missing. (Kyron had left with Terri at 8:45 a.m). The parent-led groups were dispersing and class was about to begin.

Yes, which is a separate memory from the last time he saw Kyron. Again, the articles and interviews make this perfectly clear.

 

[OddOneOut]

I'd still like to know more about the electricity science project. I got the impression that Kyron had to go downstairs to see it. Where was it located? Did LE interview those involved in the project? Did they remember Kyron? If Kyron was that interested in the project, he probably would have asked questions about it. They should have remembered him being there unless he didn't get that far.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I'd still like to know more about the electricity science project. I got the impression that Kyron had to go downstairs to see it. Where was it located? Did LE interview those involved in the project? Did they remember Kyron? If Kyron was that interested in the project, he probably would have asked questions about it. They should have remembered him being there unless he didn't get that far.

I don't think it was ever specified that Kyron went downstairs to see the project. TP only seems to mention himself going downstairs after the encounter. I actually did find a comment on a blog post by a local from about a month after the abduction who knew where the electrical exhibit was, but it's not a reliable source. I haven't found any reliable source to confirm it.

 

[OddOneOut]

I don't think it was ever specified that Kyron went downstairs to see the project. TP only seems to mention himself going downstairs after the encounter. I actually did find a comment on a blog post by a local from about a month after the abduction who knew where the electrical exhibit was, but it's not a reliable source. I haven't found any reliable source to confirm it.

After all these years, my memory could be off. I thought I read that Kyron's statement included that he was going down to see it. It just seems off that no one has discussed that part of this.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Again, the articles and interviews make this perfectly clear.

I don't think so.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

After all these years, my memory could be off. I thought I read that Kyron's statement included that he was going down to see it. It just seems off that no one has discussed that part of this.

I've seen that floating around as well, but I've never been able to track it down to an original source. Generally, I wish people would look more into the testimonies of TP and TK; I think there is a lot of valuable information there.

 

[Truth Prevails]

The following is from the Rebecca Morris book. It discusses an interaction that a mother and child had with Terri and Kyron in his classroom on the morning of June 4th and what they witnessed. It's interesting.

Sniped quote: On the morning of June 4, [Mother] and [child] were in the children’s classroom, as were Terri and Kyron. [Mother] saw Terri take a photograph of Kyron standing in front of his tree frog exhibit. [Mother] remembered the frog pond was made of Saran Wrap. “Kyron was very happy, very excited about his tree frog project,” [Mother] later said.

“Let me take one of [child], too,” Terri said, and she took a photo of [child] with her exhibit on turtles.

[Mother] left around 9 a.m. for her job at a restaurant. The last time [Mother] saw Terri and Kyron was after Terri took the photo of [child]. Kyron and his stepmother were walking away by themselves, presumably to view some of the other science projects.
...
[Mother] told police she had seen Terri take Kyron's photo in front of his science exhibit. That was at 8:45 a.m. At 9:12 a.m. Terri was caught on a surveillance video leaving the Fred Meyer store on Northwest Imbrie Drive in Hillsboro.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris


So we have the very credible lady above saying she presumed Terri and Kyron were going to view other science projects after 8:45 a.m. I think the reason for that is what Terri describes below. Somehow (probably deliberately) she hadn't known about the science fair being the day before and so made it known that she and Kyron were going to do their own tour when the parent-led groups formed. That's how she got him out. In my opinion.

Transcription of Terri on Dr. Phil at about 1:25 minutes in:
Dr. Phil: The science fair was actually the day before.
Terri: Right.
Dr. Phil: You thought it was this day, but it was the day before.
Terri: Right. So, we were told to bring the items on the 3rd which was a Thursday, which was his diorama and his portfolio. And so, we took the truck and then we went to do it then. And that was about 8 o’clock in the morning; dropped him off for that. And the teacher didn’t say a word about—we were told to put them all in the corner. And so, we put them all in the corner and I saw the pile of other projects and so I had just assumed it would be the next day. She didn’t say anything to me. I was all the way in the classroom with him at that time. So, by the time I got there and take the photo of him in front of the project I’m assuming that we’re going to do a tour and then they are going to do their little presentations but that wasn’t the case.
Dr. Phil: That had already been done.
Terri: Right.
Dr. Phil : So you weren’t there for the actual presentation but you saw it the next day.
Terri: Right.

 

[Truth Prevails]

This seventh grader said his family have turned over pictures they took that morning at the science fair. That's about all I see of note.

Who turned up or who didn't turn up in the photos would be interesting. A photo of the truck in the parking lot would be interesting. And hopefully, all would be time-stamped. Confirmation that he actually saw Kyron and a time would be interesting.

All these kids were frightened and confused and trying to remember what they saw. It's all so sad.

Snipped quote: One person who has been asked again about what he saw is Skyline seventh-grader Tyler [], whose science fair project was on antimatter. He said investigators came back to interview him last week at his home.

"I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot," he said Wednesday. [] said Kyron was looking at other students' science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends.

[] said he hopes it's all cleared up soon because it's a frightening situation for him.

"Just knowing someone took him and not coming out and confessing, and that he's probably in some other random place," he said.

He said when he saw Kyron in the gym he didn't see Terri Horman with him. He and his family have turned over pictures they took at the science fair to investigators, but they've been asked not to disclose the timeframe in which he saw Kyron.

Kyron's mother claims Terri planned disappearance

{p}In a Tuesday interview with NBC's "Today" show, Kyron's birth mother - Desiree Young - reiterated her accusation that Terri Horman was involved. Young said she believes Kyron's disappearance was "very planned."{/p}

katu.com

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I don't think so.

Honestly, I'm a bit baffled. TP is clearly talking about two different events:

1. Last time seeing Kyron, in the 2nd floor hallway, at ca 8:45
2. Hearing the chaperone tell Mrs Foster that Kyron was missing, in the classroom, at ca 9:45

They're clearly separated in all the articles and interviews. I've never heard anyone conflate them before.

The following is from the Rebecca Morris book. It discusses an interaction that a mother and child had with Terri and Kyron in his classroom on the morning of June 4th and what they witnessed. It's interesting.

Sniped quote: On the morning of June 4, [Mother] and [child] were in the children’s classroom, as were Terri and Kyron. [Mother] saw Terri take a photograph of Kyron standing in front of his tree frog exhibit. [Mother] remembered the frog pond was made of Saran Wrap. “Kyron was very happy, very excited about his tree frog project,” [Mother] later said.

“Let me take one of [child], too,” Terri said, and she took a photo of [child] with her exhibit on turtles.

[Mother] left around 9 a.m. for her job at a restaurant. The last time [Mother] saw Terri and Kyron was after Terri took the photo of [child]. Kyron and his stepmother were walking away by themselves, presumably to view some of the other science projects.
...
[Mother] told police she had seen Terri take Kyron's photo in front of his science exhibit. That was at 8:45 a.m. At 9:12 a.m. Terri was caught on a surveillance video leaving the Fred Meyer store on Northwest Imbrie Drive in Hillsboro.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris


So we have the very credible lady above saying she presumed Terri and Kyron were going to view other science projects after 8:45 a.m.

That's one of the least credible ideas in the Morris book. That the photo and classroom visit took place just before 8:45. This contradicts all earlier accounts from LE and witnesses. Example:

8:15 a.m.

Gina Zimmerman, president of the school PTA, arrives and sees Kyron with his stepmother in front of his exhibit.

It appears to be some kind of misunderstanding Desiree had almost a decade later, citing unspecified "technology". The book doesn't even mention the "technology". Morris just asserts that Terri herself said she took the picture at 8:45:

Desiree and Tony heard Terri describe her day. Terri said she had taken the photo of Kyron at 8:45 a.m. and walked out of the school with Kayla at 8:50 a.m.

This is counter to all other info Terri has given elsewhere about her day. Desiree's account goes against not just Terri but other witnesses who saw her in the classroom earlier, and later in a downstairs classroom.

This is a fundamental problem with the Morris book. It has interesting material in it, but Morris appears to have done essentially no fact-checking, just accepting everything at face value. A lot of it is sloppy or vague. Theories and new "facts" are thrown around with seemingly no concern if it contradicts earlier material even in the book. It is also often very unclear where a lot of information comes from - a witness, LE or Desiree.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Just for discussion as to what Terri said:

Snipped quote: Desiree and Tony heard Terri describe her day. Terri said she had taken the photo of Kyron at 8:45 a.m. and walked out of the school with [the baby] at 8:50 a.m. She said she had parked the truck in the school parking lot.
"Boy Missing · The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris

I don't think the book is sloppy or vague.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Snipped quote: “He was seen in in throughout the school along with Terry (Kyron’s step-mom) and [baby] (Kyron’s step-sister) and a lot of eyewitnesses place him in the key classrooms, looking at the exhibits. Then we know that at approximately 8:44 in the morning he was posing in front of that picture that we all know, in front of his exhibit. We know that Terry was in the school when she took that picture, then from that point we have eyewitness accounts that place him leaving the school with Terry right out the side exit,” said Young.

According to Young, that was the last time anyone saw him, “We just don’t know what she (Terry) did with him from that point until the time that she’s captured on surveillance footage at the gym,” said Young.

National Missing Children's Day: The Search Continues For Multiple Families

Today is National Missing Children’s Day. According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, more than 50 children are missing in Oregon and that number represents only the children that have been reported.

web.archive.org

 

[OddOneOut]

I wish I could read the police reports and interviews. There is too much she said and she said that she said being passed around as evidence. I'd like to read the originals.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Snipped quote: “He was seen in in throughout the school along with Terry (Kyron’s step-mom) and [baby] (Kyron’s step-sister) and a lot of eyewitnesses place him in the key classrooms, looking at the exhibits. Then we know that at approximately 8:44 in the morning he was posing in front of that picture that we all know, in front of his exhibit. We know that Terry was in the school when she took that picture, then from that point we have eyewitness accounts that place him leaving the school with Terry right out the side exit,” said Young.

According to Young, that was the last time anyone saw him, “We just don’t know what she (Terry) did with him from that point until the time that she’s captured on surveillance footage at the gym,” said Young.

National Missing Children's Day: The Search Continues For Multiple Families

Today is National Missing Children’s Day. According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, more than 50 children are missing in Oregon and that number represents only the children that have been reported.

web.archive.org

Which is a. almost a decade later and b. also from Desiree alone. If you have a bunch of case-altering new information and it all comes from a single person who hasn't been briefed by LE for years? I going to say it isn't reliable. I'm also going to put most of the blame on the MCSO, who seem to be content with sitting on their hands while Desiree holds press conferences. For the sake of everyone involved, Kaine, Terri, Desiree et al, I wish they'd hand the case over to the FBI.

I wish I could read the police reports and interviews. There is too much she said and she said that she said being passed around as evidence. I'd like to read the originals.

I suspect the original transcripts will be both illuminating and frustrating. Quite frankly, I'd say for 99% of the 500 people who visited the school that day, there'd be no reason to take notice of a single boy among many others unless you knew him. It wasn't like there was a blinking red arrow above his head saying "pay attention to this boy, he'll be kidnapped later this morning".

For that reason, I think adults would be the least likely to pay attention to Kyron if he wasn't in their family or their group. I suspect that's why it was children who provided the most vital testimonies. They were on his level, they knew him and talked to him.

 

[minazoe]

it's just the way the person who took Kyron was able to be so stealth and unseen at that chosen moment. I t does make me wonder if the truck on the access road is a red herring and the F1 was in the parking lot near the exit and just not noticed.

 

[OddOneOut]

Just my opinion, however, I don't think Terri is capable of doing this and getting away with it. From what I've read, Terri is alcoholic, disorganized, narcissistic, and used to trying to get others to do things for her. The only thing she has accomplished on her own is stealing Kaine from Desiree. She couldn't have done that if he hadn't been willing to go along with it. She got the dates wrong for the science fair and the doctor's appointment. She didn't try to kill Kaine; instead, she tried to hire someone and failed. She is concerned with herself and failed to correctly understand the reactions of those she tried to hire in both supposed murder-for-hire plots.