Kyron Horman's general discussion thread - 2015/2016

[keeponsearching]

My first post of 2015 is for you Kyron. This is your year buddy!

 

[charminglane]

My first post of 2015 is for you Kyron. This is your year buddy!

From your lips to God's ears.

 

[gitana1]

He had a motive....wanted out of the responsibility. I am entitled to an opinion as unpopular as that might be. If LE knows for sure TH did it she'd be in jail. I don't see her as a criminal mastermind. I don't think she personally had enough time to do it. Could she have? Sure. But she'd be a total idiot to try to kill Kaine and Kyron, too. Is she a total idiot? Its possible. But she can't be a criminal mastermind and idiot at the same time. Scott Peterson was an idiot to think he could get by with what he did. A Spouse or family member is the first person looked at in any disappearance or murder and for TH to plan to kill two in the same family would make her a total idiot. Not a criminal mastermind.

I know this is an old post but when I see Kyron's thread pop up I tend do go back to where I left off. Anyone who has been on websleuths for any length of time should understand that the feelings of investigators are not evident solely by an arrest.

In various cases we have seen that investigators were certain but had to wait until a break before they could arrest.

I would be curious to know what you think about the Sky Metalwala case. Do you believe investigators in that case aren't certain as to what happened?

Or essentially as to what happened to Ayla Reynolds and who did it? Susan Powell? Dylan Redwine? Etc.?

Love it!
After a recent unfortunate murder of a child in my close family I don't trust anyone. I will tell you the child's mother agreed to lie detector tests (just after she had seen her baby's brutalized body. She passed. They were preparing to arrest her if she had failed. So if you fail....can there be any other reason but guilty knowledge? Attorney?

Nerves or medications could sometimes affect the results. That's why they tend to be inadmissible. But the totality of the circumstances is what must be examined to understand the significance of lie detector test results. Like their behavior surrounding taking it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Gitana1,

Always appreciate your posts and perspective. What, if anything, do you think could motivate DDS to finally share what she knows? Or do you think she has already?

 

[gitana1]

Gitana1,

Always appreciate your posts and perspective. What, if anything, do you think could motivate DDS to finally share what she knows? Or do you think she has already?

I don't know. I think she may have some information/evidence. She may have helped with alibi or cover up. But I don't think she will talk, out of shame or loyalty, stubbornness. I never forget that sly look on her face when summoned to the grand jury. I think she had a serious attachment to TH. In the face of a poor lost little boy, she kept her mouth firmly shut. If a missing child wasn't enough to get her to talk, noticing will, I think.

 

[wendiesan]

Happy 2015 everyone!

 

[MissJ]

I know this is an old post but when I see Kyron's thread pop up I tend do go back to where I left off. Anyone who has been on websleuths for any length of time should understand that the feelings of investigators are not evident solely by an arrest.

In various cases we have seen that investigators were certain but had to wait until a break before they could arrest.

I would be curious to know what you think about the Sky Metalwala case. Do you believe investigators in that case aren't certain as to what happened?

Or essentially as to what happened to Ayla Reynolds and who did it? Susan Powell? Dylan Redwine? Etc.?



Nerves or medications could sometimes affect the results. That's why they tend to be inadmissible. But the totality of the circumstances is what must be examined to understand the significance of lie detector test results. Like their behavior surrounding taking it.

I have said if LE knew for sure she left with Kyron......if you've seen prior posts. I stand by my statement. If they KNOW she was the one who left with Kyron then she'd be in jail. Because to me that is pretty strong evidence. Unlike the CA jury I don't believe LE needs pictures of the crime. Circumstantial evidence, to me is strong in the Dylan Redwine case. I think MR could be charged. The other cases I'm not familiar with. My father was a homicide detective in a large eastern city and I have worked in medico legal all my life. My grandfather was a prosecutor. So flame me if you like but I am entitled to an opinion. And yes it takes an idiot to kill their spouse or their child, IMO. Because they always are the first looked at for the crime. Still sometimes they do get away with it. I haven't seen any who have killed their husband and step child both (at different times) and gotten away with it. Have you? There are Homicide departments or Sheriff's departments who are just plain incompetent. Like SDSO in the McStay case, pure incompetence from the get go IMO. Every time I post here I get flamed.
Oh, I would think they have plenty of evidence in the Ayla Reynolds case.

 

[MissJ]

My own close family just experienced a murder of a child and the alleged perp didn't walk the streets at all. He was the last person known to be with the child. He had excuses and accusations against others but he is behind bars. We'll have to see if he gets by with it but LE and DA at least have the gumption to go for it. All MOO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm glad we are having a lively debate about Kyron's disappearance; it keeps this case fresh in everyone's minds. Tnhe Perp is counting on this fading in to oblivion as the years go by, as they have gone by. I commend everyone for continuing to seek answers, despite the differing views. It's important to test each others thinking; who knows what we might uncover with this level of continuous scrutiny. I, for one, am not giving up on this little boy or his Mom Desiree.
Love you all!

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Happy 2015 everyone!

:seeya: Thank You !

And 2015 be the year that Kyron comes home !!!


lease:

 

[rosesfromangels]

Here's what I would like to know....

Who from that local gym that TMH went to, was male, a former felon, and moved shortly after Kyron's disappearance? There are a lot of ex-felon' who work out at gyms....no kidding. Not to say they aren't entitled, they are. I'd like to know who her gym rat friends were. It is purely a guess, but I could see her finding someone from the gym to make Kyron disappear...for $$. We know she allegedly tried some sort of plot to have Kaine disappear. It's not far fetched to think this was Kyron's fate as well.

In conjunction, I would like to see forensics on her bank accounts. Where was this money coming from? She was a female bodybuilder. It is not inconceivable she was doing some sort of *advertiser censored* or web cam on the side for $. I am not suggesting female bodybuilders automatically do *advertiser censored*, but it is well known in the gym community that many bodybuilders (male and female) do some sort of "side work" to support their very expensive sport.

 

[gitana1]

My own close family just experienced a murder of a child and the alleged perp didn't walk the streets at all. He was the last person known to be with the child. He had excuses and accusations against others but he is behind bars. We'll have to see if he gets by with it but LE and DA at least have the gumption to go for it. All MOO.

Was the body missing? A very significant part of this case is that Kyron hasn't been found. So how can you charge murder when there's no body, blood, sound of a gun shot, video of a murder, signs of a struggle, witness accounts of a murder, confessions, etc.? In the case involving your relative, was the situation like this one? No body? No other specific evidence of a murder?

 

[gitana1]

I have said if LE knew for sure she left with Kyron......if you've seen prior posts. I stand by my statement. If they KNOW she was the one who left with Kyron then she'd be in jail. Because to me that is pretty strong evidence. Unlike the CA jury I don't believe LE needs pictures of the crime. Circumstantial evidence, to me is strong in the Dylan Redwine case. I think MR could be charged. The other cases I'm not familiar with. My father was a homicide detective in a large eastern city and I have worked in medico legal all my life. My grandfather was a prosecutor. So flame me if you like but I am entitled to an opinion. And yes it takes an idiot to kill their spouse or their child, IMO. Because they always are the first looked at for the crime. Still sometimes they do get away with it. I haven't seen any who have killed their husband and step child both (at different times) and gotten away with it. Have you? There are Homicide departments or Sheriff's departments who are just plain incompetent. Like SDSO in the McStay case, pure incompetence from the get go IMO. Every time I post here I get flamed.
Oh, I would think they have plenty of evidence in the Ayla Reynolds case.

Ok. Because the post I was referring to, you clearly stated "If LE knows for sure TH did it she'd be in jail." But I understand what you're saying. However, see my prior post. Simply knowing she left with him would likely not be enough to sustain a conviction.

To me, I have not seen one sign that LE has been incompetent here. Remember guys, LE who have investigated this case include: Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, Gresham Police, Fairview Police, Troutdale Police, Portland Police, Port of Portland Police, Clackamas County Sheriff's Office, Clackamas County DA MCT, Multnomah County DA's investigators, Washington County District Attorney's Office, Washington County Sheriff's Office, Gladstone Police, Oregon City Police, Milwaukie Police, Canby Police, Lake Oswego Police, West Linn Police, Vancouver Police, Hillsboro Police, Beaverton Police, FBI, DEA, ICE, Secret Service, DOD Defense Criminal Investigative Services, Oregon DOJ and Oregon State Police.

Also, TH did not kill her step-child and her husband. So I'm not sure what that's about. I don;t think TH is a criminal mastermind. Most aren't. She's just been lucky. Many are. Without a body, it is quite hard to prosecute a murder case. It can be done but a lot of other evidence is needed to prove the case.

I wanted to add that you've posted several times that you are entitled to your opinion and that posters are "flaming" you or you are afraid they will. If anyone is being rude, you can report them. Disagreeing or debating is not "flaming", IMO. It is disagreeing or debating. I've seen no one state you are not entitled to your opinion.

But everyone else has that right as well though.

 

[gitana1]

Yes, there have been other attorneys on here that have disagreed, but as far as I am aware, they aren't criminal defense attorneys. I stand by my opinion. I may not be a verified poster, but I am an attorney who has been working in the criminal defense field for three years now. A good defense attorney wouldn't say "abandon your child." I never claimed that. A good defense attorney will tell a client to maintain their silence, which is what TH has done. Unfortunately, that has the side effect of limiting her ability to try and gain custody of her child. Given the serious criminal ramifications, a good defense attorney will prioritize keeping their client out of jail over child custody. As I've said before, it's quite hard to have a relationship with your child when you're in prison, wrongfully or not. If you're free, you have the chance to reconnect with the child - it's not about "making up for lost time." But you're never going to reconnect if you're in prison. By maintaining her silence, TH at least has a chance of that.

It's fine if you or others disagree. But as a criminal defense attorney, I can tell you, prioritizing your clients right to remain silent and keeping them out of jail is your job. Some of those actions may have sad ramifications in family court, but your job is to focus on the criminal charges. TH did what she should, guilty or innocent.

You can see how far back I go on a thread!!! Man. This is an old post. I miss a lot over time.

It's ok that you're not verified. I surely trust you, friend. It's clear you know what you're talking about with regard to the law. But with respect, your post is not totally logical. Because it has nothing to do with what a good criminal defense attorney would advise. It has to do with how people act, when they are innocent, versus guilty, regardless of sound advice they may have been given. It's about what mothers do and what lengths they will go to.

Human behavior patterns are what is important. As a decades-long researcher into criminal behavior, as a 14 year family law attorney, with a criminal defense attorney law partner, and as a person who knows well how to read people (I used to read palms - super good at it), I feel I have a solid grasp on how the innocent act. TH ain't one of those.

 

[MyBelle]

You can see how far back I go on a thread!!! Man. This is an old post. I miss a lot over time.

It's ok that you're not verified. I surely trust you, friend. It's clear you know what you're talking about with regard to the law. But with respect, your post is not totally logical. Because it has nothing to do with what a good criminal defense attorney would advise. It has to do with how people act, when they are innocent, versus guilty, regardless of sound advice they may have been given. It's about what mothers do and what lengths they will go to.

Human behavior patterns are what is important. As a decades-long researcher into criminal behavior, as a 14 year family law attorney, with a criminal defense attorney law partner, and as a person who knows well how to read people (I used to read palms - super good at it), I feel I have a solid grasp on how the innocent act. TH ain't one of those.

If you don't believe TH is innocent why would a Judge believe her to be innocent? I think even if Terri had testified at the very first PO hearing that she did not try to hire a hit man to kill her husband, a Judge would not have believed her nor returned her daughter to her physical custody because the risk was too great.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

If you don't believe TH is innocent why would a Judge believe her to be innocent? I think even if Terri had testified at the very first PO hearing that she did not try to hire a hit man to kill her husband, a Judge would not have believed her nor returned her daughter to her physical custody because the risk was too great.

JMO

She has never been returned to TH's physical custody and the conduct of the family law judge confirms he believes TH likely harmed Kyron. The custody orders are extraordinarily draconian against TH and in favor of KH.

 

[MissJ]

Ok. Because the post I was referring to, you clearly stated "If LE knows for sure TH did it she'd be in jail." But I understand what you're saying. However, see my prior post. Simply knowing she left with him would likely not be enough to sustain a conviction.

To me, I have not seen one sign that LE has been incompetent here. Remember guys, LE who have investigated this case include: Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, Gresham Police, Fairview Police, Troutdale Police, Portland Police, Port of Portland Police, Clackamas County Sheriff's Office, Clackamas County DA MCT, Multnomah County DA's investigators, Washington County District Attorney's Office, Washington County Sheriff's Office, Gladstone Police, Oregon City Police, Milwaukie Police, Canby Police, Lake Oswego Police, West Linn Police, Vancouver Police, Hillsboro Police, Beaverton Police, FBI, DEA, ICE, Secret Service, DOD Defense Criminal Investigative Services, Oregon DOJ and Oregon State Police.

Also, TH did not kill her step-child and her husband. So I'm not sure what that's about. I don;t think TH is a criminal mastermind. Most aren't. She's just been lucky. Many are. Without a body, it is quite hard to prosecute a murder case. It can be done but a lot of other evidence is needed to prove the case.

I wanted to add that you've posted several times that you are entitled to your opinion and that posters are "flaming" you or you are afraid they will. If anyone is being rude, you can report them. Disagreeing or debating is not "flaming", IMO. It is disagreeing or debating. I've seen no one state you are not entitled to your opinion.

But everyone else has that right as well though.

I never said THIS department was incompetent. Several cases were brought up. The father of the three little boys who disappeared from Michigan was prosecuted because he was the last one with the boys. Not for murder but he is in jail nonetheless.So was Baby Kate's (Phillips)father put in jail. It can be done and it has been. The statement about TH killing both was responding to another poster who stated that TH likely planned to kill both for financial reasons. As for flaming I have reported posters for that reason here on this thread. I don't know what, if anything TH had to do with Kyron's disappearance but I do believe someone else actually did the abduction. Nothing anyone does would surprise me anymore in regards to people who kill children. The DA can choose to prosecute or not in any case. LE can go down the wrong track and do. I don't believe TH left with Kyron that day. What happened afterward (from the time he was taken from the school) is anyone's guess. TH may be involved I just don't see her doing it herself......judging from past behavior. Nor do I think DDS was involved in the actual abduction. I'm on the side of the child/victim and I want the right person or persons to be prosecuted. Thats all.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I never said THIS department was incompetent. Several cases were brought up. The father of the three little boys who disappeared from Michigan was prosecuted because he was the last one with the boys. Not for murder but he is in jail nonetheless.So was Baby Kate's (Phillips)father put in jail. It can be done and it has been. The statement about TH killing both was responding to another poster who stated that TH likely planned to kill both for financial reasons. As for flaming I have reported posters for that reason here on this thread. I don't know what, if anything TH had to do with Kyron's disappearance but I do believe someone else actually did the abduction. Nothing anyone does would surprise me anymore in regards to people who kill children. The DA can choose to prosecute or not in any case. LE can go down the wrong track and do. I don't believe TH left with Kyron that day. What happened afterward (from the time he was taken from the school) is anyone's guess. TH may be involved I just don't see her doing it herself......judging from past behavior. Nor do I think DDS was involved in the actual abduction. I'm on the side of the child/victim and I want the right person or persons to be prosecuted. Thats all.

I think you are right in that she definitely had help. I think it was a hand off of sorts, and most likely a similar set up to the alleged arrangement she tried to strike with the gardener to eliminate Kaine. I keep going back to who she knew from the gym who might be an ex-con willing to do something for $.

 

[MyBelle]

She has never been returned to TH's physical custody and the conduct of the family law judge confirms he believes TH likely harmed Kyron. The custody orders are extraordinarily draconian against TH and in favor of KH.

Maybe so but she's not been prosecuted which I believe was the point AnaTeresa made about criminal attorneys prioritizing their duty to keep their client out of jail over child custody.

 

[MissJ]

I think you are right in that she definitely had help. I think it was a hand off of sorts, and most likely a similar set up to the alleged arrangement she tried to strike with the gardener to eliminate Kaine. I keep going back to who she knew from the gym who might be an ex-con willing to do something for $.

I have worked for more than 30 years as a ANA Board Certified Psychiatric RN. Most of my jobs were in prisons, jails and forensic psych units. While women were involved in murder , my experience has been that 95% of hands on violence was done by men. Women may have planned and instigated but hands on was almost always men. If TH was involved IMO a man did the actual hands on violence. That has been my experience....FWIW.